The death of melee

[clkpacker]

As a consultant, people complain about performance, then IT comes along with a spreadsheet and declares "our numbers say performance is acceptable". It doesn't matter what the spreadsheet says, it's what the user feels. Your number may be in the "acceptable range" but to the user it still feels like ****, and they won't want to to use the product. It's all about perception.

I gotta go with Yaga here--you're essentially saying the change doesn't seem to visibly change anything, am I right? The only reason it feels wrong is because you know it's wrong. You're expecting it to be bad, and so it's bad. Maybe it is time for a break--it sounds like you're creating all this negative perception out of nothing.

I want to see Turbine sneakily implement the melee changes without letting anyone know, just to see who figures it out and who continues playing, blissfully unawares.

[grodon9999]

don't forget the nerfs to mysterious bauble / spell storing ring as well

everything is so much clearer now

if they change the drop-rate on in-game SP-pots we've hit the trifecta of getting screwed.

So to all the people who flamed me in other threads, still think I'm over-reacting?

[Bozone]

So to all the people who flamed me in other threads, still think I'm over-reacting?

Although I've never flamed you: Yes

[Thrudh]

if they change the drop-rate on in-game SP-pots we've hit the trifecta of getting screwed.

So to all the people who flamed me in other threads, still think I'm over-reacting?

Yes, you are completely over-reacting...

I can only imagine this is your first MMO, and your first nerf ever...

[DelScorcho]

Come on folks. It is better for the game when things are balanced. TWF has been king for too long. It is time that damage is evened a bit. I like diversity. When THF evens up in the damage numbers, more THF toons will come into existence and the game will be more diverse. Sounds good to me.

Equalizing damage for TWF and THF would eliminate TWF as a real build choice for new characters. Who in their right mind would build a character that would need to grind twice as much for the same effect? So actually diversity requires TWF to have enough extra damage to convince enough new character creaters that the extra benefit is worth the extra grind.

[Rodrak]

Well... let's wait and see how these nerfs affected the lag (dps-lag or any other...). That was the purpose of the changes, right? Because if after all this **** the difference will be as great as after DA (ie. it "helps" but players can't spot the difference at all) this update will *really* look bad.

[Slorgs]

DDO is a great game, but we don't have to spend the rest of our lives playing it. It goes back to perception. Sure you can do all the same stuff, but it all feels the same. Monk doesn't feel any different than barbarian, or ranger.

Turbine's gotta do what it has to do, but they asked us what was more important. Keeping things the same or reducing lag.

The only places I really experience bad dps lag is: Shroud, ToD, Epic Von 6 and my FvS can just chain heal through it. Or if I'm melee just get chain healed through it. It takes more pots (if any) but I can live with that.

Changing how the game feels, the experience being lessened is what I personally can't adjust to. Is the community really ok with fixing a very limited problem with so many sweeping changes?

Go on Lamannia and see how the game "feels" now. Every game allows you to beat down mobs in x time for y reward. It's -how- you do it that is fun or not.


Everyone has been arguing about percentages and calculations, for me, I play with Excel often enough at work that it isn't very fun as a leisure activity. Part of playing ddo is feeling that your character is capable of doing great things. Take that away and it's just Excel with nicer graphics.

[Slorgs]

I want to see Turbine sneakily implement the melee changes without letting anyone know, just to see who figures it out and who continues playing, blissfully unawares.

Seriously? And I'm getting neg rep?

I was waiting to see Lamannia before I commented on the changes, I thought they would just fine.

All you have to do is log on a and play your character. For me I solo Genesis Point on a regular basis as a baseline for for how well I can do, what equipment changes do, etc.

Download the test client and PLAY. If you can't notice the difference, I just don't know what to say. On a 20 Monk and 20 Ranger it's like night and day. It's like you're back at level 1 without hope of ever increasing.

[Aaxeyu]

Paladin's best DPS came from double smites, which aren't possible now.

Double smites was a small part of a paladins damage output.

[oweieie]

Equalizing damage for TWF and THF would eliminate TWF as a real build choice for new characters. Who in their right mind would build a character that would need to grind twice as much for the same effect? So actually diversity requires TWF to have enough extra damage to convince enough new character creaters that the extra benefit is worth the extra grind.

Grind more, spend more ability points on dex, and spend more feats. No, if damage is equalized but cost isn't, no one will go for TWF. Maybe they should get rid of glancing blows? It was a ******** idea in the first place.

[Jay203]

if you only find fun and satisfaction thru being able to play an overpowered character, clearly D&D isn't the right game for you?

[clkpacker]

All you have to do is log on a and play your character. For me I solo Genesis Point on a regular basis as a baseline for for how well I can do, what equipment changes do, etc.

Download the test client and PLAY. If you can't notice the difference, I just don't know what to say. On a 20 Monk and 20 Ranger it's like night and day. It's like you're back at level 1 without hope of ever increasing.

I'm F2P and thus don't have access to Lamannia. I was going solely off of your initial post, which seemed to indicate that if there was a change in gameplay, you couldn't pin it down, and that mobs were going down in essentially the same time as before the change. If I misread your initial post, I apologize.

Plus: blind testing could be a viable way to discover how this change affects gameplay. Is your average player going to even notice the difference? Is it only people who play with spreadsheets open noticing a change? Forumgoers already have a very strong negative perception of the melee changes because of the hysteria going on--how would they view this change had the hysteria not occurred? I wasn't trying to be facetious in my post; I truthfully wonder if most people would actually notice were they not told about the change.

[smatt]

Melee were dead in Mod 4..... Wait that was 3 years ago

Please sign the book on your way out the door

[Vhlad]

Attacks performed while holding a shield and no weapon will now shield bash instead of punching.

They nerfed rapid punching.

Very sad.

Rapid punching was like stealth humping. It had little practical use, but brought entertainment during periods of waiting for party members.

My melee dies a little inside.

[Jiipster]

They nerfed rapid punching.

Very sad.

Rapid punching was like stealth humping. It had little practical use, but brought entertainment during periods of waiting for party members.

My melee dies a little inside.

It was actually somewhat useful for lowbie melees for bashing slimes... before you got a Muckbane...

Yeah.

[kingfisher]

I have a little hope that Turbine will come to it's senses and undo this silliness before it goes live.

give it time and that will pass

You'll get over it, they've done nerfs like this in the past. Likely before you showed up, once its not fresh in your mind, it won't be hte "d00m" your thinking it is. If it is a kilelr to your sense of fun then leave, sorry about your luck, hope the 6 months you found here were enjoyable.

they have never nerfed the entire combat system before

Everyone keeps saying "This isn't fun anymore."

What exactly isn't fun anymore? You just said everything is about the same. Everything dies almost as quickly. So what EXACTLY isn't fun anymore?

The fun part of PnP AND DDO is the people you meet. This is a social game. If your only enjoyment comes from killing things .1 seconds faster than the next guy, is this game really fun for you? Let the changes go live and play for a couple of weeks and then come tell us EXACTLY why it isn't fun for you anymore. That would be better feedback for the devs IMHO.

kiond of like if you have a gto with a supercharged 404 under the hood and then you replace that motor with a little 4-banger........it will still get you down the road if you need to get somewhere, but it just wont feel right. the fun's lessened.

[Jamma]

I want to see Turbine sneakily implement the melee changes without letting anyone know, just to see who figures it out and who continues playing, blissfully unawares.

Well, the vast majority of players don't read the forums, so you'll probably get your wish!

[Potvin]

if you only find fun and satisfaction thru being able to play an overpowered character, clearly D&D isn't the right game for you?

what class isn't overpowered? besides rogues?

Monks were far from overpowered before.

[Missing_Minds]

Everyone keeps saying "This isn't fun anymore."

What exactly isn't fun anymore? You just said everything is about the same. Everything dies almost as quickly. So what EXACTLY isn't fun anymore?

The fun part of PnP AND DDO is the people you meet. This is a social game. If your only enjoyment comes from killing things .1 seconds faster than the next guy, is this game really fun for you? Let the changes go live and play for a couple of weeks and then come tell us EXACTLY why it isn't fun for you anymore. That would be better feedback for the devs IMHO.

The underlined portion is what will really get things to change if you want them to.

The whole "it isn't fun anymore" is like calling up your kid telling them "My computer is broke, fix it!" and expect them to magically know what is wrong to fix it.

[D-molisher]

The following Epic items have been modified. Existing versions have been retroactively changed, there is no additional benefit to running them through the Altar of Epic Rituals with dungeon tokens:
Ring of Spell Storing: SP heal reduced to ""Greater Mnemonic"" (55 - 300 sp).
Sword of Shadows: Increase base damage to 5d6. Decrease Critical Multiplier to x3.

Part of Lamannia release notes ...