The death of melee

[Slorgs]

As a consultant, people complain about performance, then IT comes along with a spreadsheet and declares "our numbers say performance is acceptable". It doesn't matter what the spreadsheet says, it's what the user feels. Your number may be in the "acceptable range" but to the user it still feels like ****, and they won't want to to use the product. It's all about perception.

Playing my melee toons no longer feels good. Especially my monk. It doesn't "feel" right anymore.

You still kill stuff in approx the same amount of time, in fact Amrath quests seemed easier. Devil's still hit 99.9% of the time above 65 AC but they hit softer, and everything's hit points seem to go down faster.

Weighted. Whatever. Stunning fist at 39 DC hits about 5% of the time. Useless. Nerfs.

I still have Bard, FvS, and casters that I can play, but for me there's too much changed, and it all feels wrong.

For me I think it's time for a break.

[grodon9999]

I'm not going to rage quit because I have a little hope that Turbine will come to it's senses and undo this silliness before it goes live. Me TWF melee will become a bank toon until the pendulum swings back in the direction that makes sense.

[Slorgs]

Not rage, just not fun anymore.

[kaelis]

Not rage, just not fun anymore.

You'll get over it, they've done nerfs like this in the past. Likely before you showed up, once its not fresh in your mind, it won't be hte "d00m" your thinking it is. If it is a kilelr to your sense of fun then leave, sorry about your luck, hope the 6 months you found here were enjoyable.

[MrStinky]

80%-85% of melee is TWF if turbine nurfs it and 60% go back to THF just think of how busy the DDO store will be? BOOYOW bonuses for everyone at turbine!!

[grodon9999]

80%-85% of melee is TWF if turbine nurfs it and 60% go back to THF just think of how busy the DDO store will be? BOOYOW bonuses for everyone at turbine!!

I'm convinced the nerfage is to get people to buy more SP pots in the DDO store and nothing more. Less DPS = stuff takes longer to kill = more healing needed.

[Hendrik]

I'm convinced the nerfage is to get people to buy more SP pots in the DDO store and nothing more. Less DPS = stuff takes longer to kill = more healing needed.

Your tinfoil hat is a bit too tight methinks...

[R0cksteady]

I'm convinced the nerfage is to get people to buy more SP pots in the DDO store and nothing more. Less DPS = stuff takes longer to kill = more healing needed.

Well, they also brought out +5 heart of woods. Now consider this.TWF Fighters now will have much lower DPS than THF barbs and TWF Tempests. Fighters will reroll to another class.

It's not about SP pots. Hell, Clerics are getting a nice boost in healing.

[Samadhi]

I'm convinced the nerfage is to get people to buy more SP pots in the DDO store and nothing more. Less DPS = stuff takes longer to kill = more healing needed.

don't forget the nerfs to mysterious bauble / spell storing ring as well

everything is so much clearer now

[Yaga_Nub]

Not rage, just not fun anymore.

Everyone keeps saying "This isn't fun anymore."

What exactly isn't fun anymore? You just said everything is about the same. Everything dies almost as quickly. So what EXACTLY isn't fun anymore?

The fun part of PnP AND DDO is the people you meet. This is a social game. If your only enjoyment comes from killing things .1 seconds faster than the next guy, is this game really fun for you? Let the changes go live and play for a couple of weeks and then come tell us EXACTLY why it isn't fun for you anymore. That would be better feedback for the devs IMHO.

[Hendrik]

Everyone keeps saying "This isn't fun anymore."

What exactly isn't fun anymore? You just said everything is about the same. Everything dies almost as quickly. So what EXACTLY isn't fun anymore?

The fun part of PnP AND DDO is the people you meet. This is a social game. If your only enjoyment comes from killing things .1 seconds faster than the next guy, is this game really fun for you? Let the changes go live and play for a couple of weeks and then come tell us EXACTLY why it isn't fun for you anymore. That would be better feedback for the devs IMHO.

Yaga, Yaga, Yaga....


You know that requires one to actually PLAY under the changes vs just jumping on the hysterical, nerd-rage bandwagon!

[kingfisher]

I have a little hope that Turbine will come to it's senses and undo this silliness before it goes live.

give it time and that will pass

You'll get over it, they've done nerfs like this in the past. Likely before you showed up, once its not fresh in your mind, it won't be hte "d00m" your thinking it is. If it is a kilelr to your sense of fun then leave, sorry about your luck, hope the 6 months you found here were enjoyable.

they have never nerfed the entire combat system before

Everyone keeps saying "This isn't fun anymore."

What exactly isn't fun anymore? You just said everything is about the same. Everything dies almost as quickly. So what EXACTLY isn't fun anymore?

The fun part of PnP AND DDO is the people you meet. This is a social game. If your only enjoyment comes from killing things .1 seconds faster than the next guy, is this game really fun for you? Let the changes go live and play for a couple of weeks and then come tell us EXACTLY why it isn't fun for you anymore. That would be better feedback for the devs IMHO.

kiond of like if you have a gto with a supercharged 404 under the hood and then you replace that motor with a little 4-banger........it will still get you down the road if you need to get somewhere, but it just wont feel right. the fun's lessened.

[Missing_Minds]

Everyone keeps saying "This isn't fun anymore."

What exactly isn't fun anymore? You just said everything is about the same. Everything dies almost as quickly. So what EXACTLY isn't fun anymore?

The fun part of PnP AND DDO is the people you meet. This is a social game. If your only enjoyment comes from killing things .1 seconds faster than the next guy, is this game really fun for you? Let the changes go live and play for a couple of weeks and then come tell us EXACTLY why it isn't fun for you anymore. That would be better feedback for the devs IMHO.

The underlined portion is what will really get things to change if you want them to.

The whole "it isn't fun anymore" is like calling up your kid telling them "My computer is broke, fix it!" and expect them to magically know what is wrong to fix it.

[clkpacker]

As a consultant, people complain about performance, then IT comes along with a spreadsheet and declares "our numbers say performance is acceptable". It doesn't matter what the spreadsheet says, it's what the user feels. Your number may be in the "acceptable range" but to the user it still feels like ****, and they won't want to to use the product. It's all about perception.

I gotta go with Yaga here--you're essentially saying the change doesn't seem to visibly change anything, am I right? The only reason it feels wrong is because you know it's wrong. You're expecting it to be bad, and so it's bad. Maybe it is time for a break--it sounds like you're creating all this negative perception out of nothing.

I want to see Turbine sneakily implement the melee changes without letting anyone know, just to see who figures it out and who continues playing, blissfully unawares.

[Slorgs]

I want to see Turbine sneakily implement the melee changes without letting anyone know, just to see who figures it out and who continues playing, blissfully unawares.

Seriously? And I'm getting neg rep?

I was waiting to see Lamannia before I commented on the changes, I thought they would just fine.

All you have to do is log on a and play your character. For me I solo Genesis Point on a regular basis as a baseline for for how well I can do, what equipment changes do, etc.

Download the test client and PLAY. If you can't notice the difference, I just don't know what to say. On a 20 Monk and 20 Ranger it's like night and day. It's like you're back at level 1 without hope of ever increasing.

[clkpacker]

All you have to do is log on a and play your character. For me I solo Genesis Point on a regular basis as a baseline for for how well I can do, what equipment changes do, etc.

Download the test client and PLAY. If you can't notice the difference, I just don't know what to say. On a 20 Monk and 20 Ranger it's like night and day. It's like you're back at level 1 without hope of ever increasing.

I'm F2P and thus don't have access to Lamannia. I was going solely off of your initial post, which seemed to indicate that if there was a change in gameplay, you couldn't pin it down, and that mobs were going down in essentially the same time as before the change. If I misread your initial post, I apologize.

Plus: blind testing could be a viable way to discover how this change affects gameplay. Is your average player going to even notice the difference? Is it only people who play with spreadsheets open noticing a change? Forumgoers already have a very strong negative perception of the melee changes because of the hysteria going on--how would they view this change had the hysteria not occurred? I wasn't trying to be facetious in my post; I truthfully wonder if most people would actually notice were they not told about the change.

[smatt]

Melee were dead in Mod 4..... Wait that was 3 years ago

Please sign the book on your way out the door

[Slorgs]

Is your average player going to even notice the difference? Is it only people who play with spreadsheets open noticing a change?

Yes combat feels slower, and it doesn't feel any different between classes. That is the point. It's the notice-ability that's the problem. The nerfs are just icing on the cake.

All of the discussion has been around dps, numbers, past nerfs, future nerfs, sticking through the good times and the bad times. The one thing that people need to discuss is how the game PLAYS post changes, and if that is a positive or a negative experience.

Simply put. Imagine they left everything it was before the update, but they lowered monster hp to correspond with your character swinging 6 times per minute for the same average dps and time to kill or finish a quest. Maybe quests take 50% less time to complete.

Forget DPS, nerfs, balancing, whatever. I really don't know why people are even talking about it in this thread. See how it plays.

Melee combat has gone from .50 cal chaingun to moisan-nagant. That's what people should be talking about. For lag that experienced in only a few quests and will not kill a good group.

[Jamma]

I want to see Turbine sneakily implement the melee changes without letting anyone know, just to see who figures it out and who continues playing, blissfully unawares.

Well, the vast majority of players don't read the forums, so you'll probably get your wish!