Are Monks Overpowered?

[mboger]

The devs sure seem to think they are!

The new TWF nerf is going to hit monks harder than any class (Less off hand attacks and slower Wind Stance meaning less DPS, slower Ki generation, and less use of monk abilities). Monks don't get GS wraps. Weighted wraps are getting nerfed from 5% auto stun to 3% Fort Save stun.

Monks are already a joke class (but fun to play!), so I can't see why the devs insist on taking a gigantic **** on them this update. Can someone please explain why the devs might think this is appropriate? As this rate, the only point of the class is going to be to splash them for an extra feat and Wis AC bonus.

[Sabvre]

The devs sure seem to think they are!

The new TWF nerf is going to hit monks harder than any class (Less off hand attacks and slower Wind Stance meaning less DPS, slower Ki generation, and less use of monk abilities). Monks don't get GS wraps. Weighted wraps are getting nerfed from 5% auto stun to 3% Fort Save stun.

Monks are already a joke class (but fun to play!), so I can't see why the devs insist on taking a gigantic **** on them this update. Can someone please explain why the devs might think this is appropriate? As this rate, the only point of the class is going to be to splash them for an extra feat and Wis AC bonus.

You don't pay attention to the facts, it appears you just want a reason to cry NEERRRFFFF.

1.) Wind Stance = Speed AND double Strike. Thats the same. The only ki loss is the 20% less offhand attacks.
1.) Nina Spy = Passive Ki Generation.
2.) Nina Spy = Shortswords = 2x the crit rate (Faster fire stance ki generation)
3.) +10 DC to stunning fist means Wisdom builds are now viable. Wisdom = AC.

Heck you can even use Ninja Spy to initiate fights with stunning fist or a sneak damage cleave....

[mboger]

You don't pay attention to the facts, it appears you just want a reason to cry NEERRRFFFF.

1.) Wind Stance = Speed AND double Strike. Thats the same. The only ki loss is the 20% less offhand attacks.
1.) Nina Spy = Passive Ki Generation.
2.) Nina Spy = Shortswords = 2x the crit rate (Faster fire stance ki generation)
3.) +10 DC to stunning fist means Wisdom builds are now viable. Wisdom = AC.

Heck you can even use Ninja Spy to initiate fights with stunning fist or a sneak damage cleave....

I'll have to see Wind Stance/Double Strike in action before weighing in, so I'm going to skip that.

Ninja Spy Passive Ki Generation... WHILE SNEAKING. No one is going to wait in a group while the monk sneaks around to gain a whopping 1 ki point every 6 seconds. I'm sorry, but this is a stupid gimmick ability that will be only marginally useful for dark monks soloing. Light monks are still screwed out of ki and very rarely do groups have the patience for sneaking.

Ninja Spy Short Swords - Again, dark path only. On top of that, you're trading in 2d10 unarmed damage for 1d6 and more ki. Sounds appealing!

As for weighted wraps, I think I'd much rather have my auto stun 5% than the new "now you'll always stun casters, but never melee mobs" wraps.

[Rumbaar]

You don't pay attention to the facts, it appears you just want a reason to cry NEERRRFFFF.

1.) Wind Stance = Speed AND double Strike. Thats the same. The only ki loss is the 20% less offhand attacks.
1.) Nina Spy = Passive Ki Generation.
2.) Nina Spy = Shortswords = 2x the crit rate (Faster fire stance ki generation)
3.) +10 DC to stunning fist means Wisdom builds are now viable. Wisdom = AC.

Heck you can even use Ninja Spy to initiate fights with stunning fist or a sneak damage cleave....

1) at what Level 18+ ? What about those levels before the maximum double strike/GTWF feats are taken? 18+ you didn't have to worry about Ki generation. Now you'll not have enough Ki generation prior to when you no longer have to worry.
1a Only when in a particular state, invisiblish. Solution for non 'rogue' monks?
2 You still wont get the 80% strike rate until L18+ and in a particular stance
3 But if you are not get offhand strikes in before L18 how do you generate the extra Ki needed to spam Stunning Fist all the time? Sun Stance? Then your 110%/80% is not a viable option is it?

Monk were quite powerful till around 12-15 and weakened off [no GS], now they'll be made weaker and weaker.

[bobbryan2]

You don't pay attention to the facts, it appears you just want a reason to cry NEERRRFFFF.

1.) Wind Stance = Speed AND double Strike. Thats the same. The only ki loss is the 20% less offhand attacks.

For someone that's so quick to smack down other people's lack of all the facts... you missed a few.

Double Strike is NOT the same as 10% insight bonus to speed. It's being nerfed from a 10% bonus to DPS to a 5% bonus to DPS...

[Sabvre]

For someone that's so quick to smack down other people's lack of all the facts... you missed a few.

Double Strike is NOT the same as 10% insight bonus to speed. It's being nerfed from a 10% bonus to DPS to a 5% bonus to DPS...

Last i saw its 10% Speed bonus and 10% double strike at Wind IV...

100% Main 80% Offhand
+ 10% double strike
110% Mainhand 80% Offhand
+ 10% speed
121% Main dps, 88% Offhand

Windstance Still offers 29% DPS.... over not being stanced....

So please complain some more... why don't we all just admit the fact that turbine sold their souls to the devil and hence they want to ruin everyone by adding balance to the game...

[bobbryan2]

Last i saw its 10% Speed bonus and 10% double strike at Wind IV...

100% Main 80% Offhand
+ 10% double strike
110% Mainhand 80% Offhand
+ 10% speed
121% Main dps, 88% Offhand

Windstance Still offers 29% DPS.... over not being stanced....

So please complain some more... why don't we all just admit the fact that turbine sold their souls to the devil and hence they want to ruin everyone by adding balance to the game...

I guess there's no reason to complain when you don't know what the bonuses are and just make them up.

Wind IV +10% 0 110% 80%

So moving from 180 hits to 190 hits.

5.5% increase over being unstanced.

5% compared to the old TWF structure.

[Sabvre]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=251248

Wind IV gives 10% double Strike.
Wind IV still gives Enhancement Speed boost (and from what i understand its 10% enhancement at Wind IV).

[QuantumFX]

The new TWF nerf is going to hit monks harder than any class (Less off hand attacks and slower Wind Stance meaning less DPS, slower Ki generation, and less use of monk abilities).

Incorrect. The changes to TWF affects TWF Rogues and Barbarians way more than any monk build. Prior to U5 all were 100% Main hand attacks/100% Offhand attacks with monks getting a 10% speed boost from Wind IV. U5 is now 100%/80% for the Rogue and Barb; 110%/80% for the Monk.

Weighted wraps are getting nerfed from 5% auto stun to 3% Fort Save stun.

While I agree that the double nerf to the passive weighted effect is nonsense (Either lowering the proc rate or adding a DC check would have been better. My vote would have been for the straight passive 3%.) they did up the DC of your Stunning Fist.

[Sabvre]

Incorrect. The changes to TWF affects TWF Rogues and Barbarians way more than any monk build. Prior to U5 all were 100% Main hand attacks/100% Offhand attacks with monks getting a 10% speed boost from Wind IV. U5 is now 100%/80% for the Rogue and Barb; 110%/80% for the Monk.



While I agree that the double nerf to the passive weighted effect is nonsense (Either lowering the proc rate or adding a DC check would have been better. My vote would have been for the straight passive 3%.) they did up the DC of your Stunning Fist.

The enhancement speed bonus still remains Eladrin specified that in the above linked post.

[Sabvre]

I guess there's no reason to complain when you don't know what the bonuses are and just make them up.

Wind IV +10% 0 110% 80%

So moving from 180 hits to 190 hits.

5.5% increase over being unstanced.

5% compared to the old TWF structure.

I'll state this a third time in a row on this thread. ENHANCEMENT SPEED BONUS STILL REMAINS. Please do your research before crying....

[bobbryan2]

I'll state this a third time in a row on this thread. ENHANCEMENT SPEED BONUS STILL REMAINS. Please do your research before crying....

Enhancement is completely irrelevant. You should know this before engaging in these conversations.

And it still should be 15% enhancement... not 10.

[QuantumFX]

The enhancement speed bonus still remains Eladrin specified that in the above linked post.

I know. But what you seem to fail to understand is that the enhancement bonus to melee alacrity can be duplicated by a haste spell. What monks are losing is the 2.5% per tier insight bonus to melee alacrity.

[SolarDawning]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=251248

Wind IV gives 10% double Strike.
Wind IV still gives Enhancement Speed boost (and from what i understand its 10% enhancement at Wind IV).

You really don't seem to understand what people are telling you...
A: The enhancement bonus to attack speed is 15%.
B: It doesn't actually matter. Haste is also 15%. Being the same bonus, they don't stack. In a group, people will almost always be hasted. Thus, that ability on Wind Stance is mostly irrelevant.

The nerf to wind stance was in changing the 10% Insight bonus to attack speed to 10% Double Strike.

These are not the same thing.

Attack speed increases the speed of your attack animations. 10% more speed = 10% more attacks.

Double Strike gives a chance to get an extra attack from each main hand strike. Main hand strikes are half of a monk's attacks- thus, 10% double strike is a 5% increase in total number of attacks.

I hope that helps you understand.

[MarcusCole]

Yeah... I think monks deserve some time being overpowerd after all the **** we've put up with

[Sabvre]

Enhancement bonus may be duplicated by haste yes... but its still an attack speed bonus.

My point remains... Wind Stance STILL increases your Attack speed and therefore your dps.

If you want to argue about the 10% insight loss, than you only truely lose the 5%, because doublestrike averages out to be the same thing as a 10% speed to the main hand.

That 5% is extremely minor.

[QuantumFX]

Enhancement bonus may be duplicated by haste yes... but its still an attack speed bonus.

My point remains... Wind Stance STILL increases your Attack speed and therefore your dps.

However, in light of the fact that haste is a very common buff it’s pointless to argue and actually detracts from any meaningful discussion.

If you want to argue about the 10% insight loss, than you only truely lose the 5%, because doublestrike averages out to be the same thing as a 10% speed to the main hand.

That 5% is extremely minor.

Which was my initial point. TWF barbs and rogues got hit with the nerfbat way harder than any monk did.

[bobbryan2]

Enhancement bonus may be duplicated by haste yes... but its still an attack speed bonus.

My point remains... Wind Stance STILL increases your Attack speed and therefore your dps.

If you want to argue about the 10% insight loss, than you only truely lose the 5%, because doublestrike averages out to be the same thing as a 10% speed to the main hand.

That 5% is extremely minor.

10% from the TWF nerf.

5% from the Wind IV nerf.

That's 15% total nerf from before. That's a HUGE deal. A 10% boost was good enough for people to splash 6 levels of ranger and take THREE feats.

[bobbryan2]

Which was my initial point. TWF barbs and rogues got hit with the nerfbat way harder than any monk did.

That's not really true.

[Sabvre]

You really don't seem to understand what people are telling you...
A: The enhancement bonus to attack speed is 15%.
B: It doesn't actually matter. Haste is also 15%. Being the same bonus, they don't stack. In a group, people will almost always be hasted. Thus, that ability on Wind Stance is mostly irrelevant.

The nerf to wind stance was in changing the 10% Insight bonus to attack speed to 10% Double Strike.

These are not the same thing.

Attack speed increases the speed of your attack animations. 10% more speed = 10% more attacks.

Double Strike gives a chance to get an extra attack from each main hand strike. Main hand strikes are half of a monk's attacks- thus, 10% double strike is a 5% increase in total number of attacks.

I hope that helps you understand.

So what if its basically a self haste... Its STILL an attack speed bonus. Maybe this change will help to diversify monks from ALWAYS going handwrap.

Also keep in mind that any speed increases you recieve actually increases the effectiveness of your Doublestrike as well. For example, you go 6/14 Acrobat/Ninja Spy:

You now have an alacracity from the acrobat PRE that stacks with 7.5% double strike. Double strike also doubles your sneak damage for that animation....