Epic SoS Nerfed to +10 5d6/x3

[Desteria]

A pass was made on many epic items. Full release notes will be up tomorrow (I think?), but I figure I'd post this list tonight:

• The following Epic items have been modified. New versions have the new effects on them. Existing versions will gain some base item changes retroactively, but to gain all effect additions and changes must be run through the Altar of Epic Rituals with three Epic Dungeon Tokens:

OMG PELASE MAKE IT WITH epid RAID tokens almost nothign uses the darn things as it is and every thing needs a TONE of the doungon tokens, and this is to fix changes you made to fix items it should be free to do ti not cost any but if it;s gona cost soem make it raid tokens PELASE!

[Rasczak]

You don't build a character around one item. If you built a character purely for an epic sos then you should have expected it. This game is ever changing, you build things that withstand nerfs and the sos was definitely an item looking to be nerfed. Any one piece of equipment that is a "must have" no question is the best and biggest, it's gonna be changed. The sos has not been nerfed as much as I thought it would and it is still an awesome weapon with these changes.

I have no problems with any of these updates, and yes I own the gear on some chars. I am actually quite excited because certain items I wanted have been improved and now with these changes, so many new options and equipment setups have opened up. It's no longer a race to get one or two of them, I have options.

I like options.

[GlorkTheInvader]

Must... summon... Epic Tharaak Hound.... in.... Korthos.....

[Mellkor]

Hmmmm, Possible give the Epic spell storing ring 4 charges now? Still not as good as it used to be, but a bit better then it is currently(as this is quite a huge nerf) that or 2 major mnemonics maybe? whichever works.

They wont do this. Anything to sell pots from the store to squeeze dollars from you. Wanna bet that some DDO store exclusive thing will magically come out to offset the DPS nerfs?

[BurningDownTheHouse]

I' rather see it as +6, 3D6 18-20x4 myself.

Never gonna happen though.
That's too "small" of a nerf...

[KiwiJoe]

OMG PELASE MAKE IT WITH epid RAID tokens almost nothign uses the darn things as it is and every thing needs a TONE of the doungon tokens, and this is to fix changes you made to fix items it should be free to do ti not cost any but if it;s gona cost soem make it raid tokens PELASE!

YES!

Raid tokens are totally worthless. In fact they cost you a bag/bank slot. Please give us a use for these parasitic purple pies

[BurningDownTheHouse]

meh..

it's not the worst they could have done..

admit it

I mean i feel for you guys.. but it could have been soo much worse.

ORLLY?
What can be worse than setting something in place, giving people a clear direction to strive for, and then whisking the freaking carpet from under their feet (repeatedly)?

[Mellkor]

Not to worry this is to reduce server lag.

yeah reduce server lag by getting rid of people. Well done!

[Mellkor]

Which limitations, exactly? Because in it's current form, unless you're running all raids on elite the SoS was simply tearing through it harder than anything else in the game, including holy silver of greater bane, never mind other "pathetic by comparison" epic weapons and mineral IIs. DR)

This is true, and it should. Its an Epic weapon. Now a min II great axe or khopeshes will be better in most situations. Do you people crying overpowered really think that an epic weapon should be on the same level as level 11 greensteel weapons? COME ON! I feel that the Epic SoS is fine in epic quests. It still takes a LONG time to beat down epic mobs with it, so I really dont see how people can say it is overpowered.

There will now even with the nerfs still be a great disparity between TWF and THF in spite of the Devs saying they want to even out the two styles. Well Devs, you didnt even it out, YOU CRUSHED IT!

[Mellkor]

Originally Posted by Eladrin
A pass was made on many epic items. Full release notes will be up tomorrow (I think?), but I figure I'd post this list tonight:

The following Epic items have been modified. New versions have the new effects on them. Existing versions will gain some base item changes retroactively, but to gain all effect additions and changes must be run through the Altar of Epic Rituals with three Epic Dungeon Tokens:


THIS IS BS!

YOUR changes should not cost US a bloody thing!!

[Krag]

I like options.

Me too.
How about introducing another epic weapon? Not a ****** dagger with lightning strike that is still inferior to Lit khopesh but a real useful weapon.

[Dendrix]

What needed to be nerfed was the droprate and how easy the sword was to get.

I am sorry by you are flat out 100% wrong. I played EQ for years where this exact thing happened in there and is is something that fundamentally breaks the game.

Simply put 2hf cannot get any improvements when this items is there because is magnifies the imbalances. Anyone with the item is massivly advantaged over everyone who does not have the item. This creates the situation where everyone must have the item.

Allowing rarity to dictate power simply does not work. You simply repeat the task enough times to gain the item. Enough people do it, and then the item is no longer rare and the balance issue of the item proliferates throughout the system.

The "broken" element of the system is the power of the item. You fix the whole system by fixing the single item, not by changing the whole system for the single item.

[Mellkor]

I am sorry by you are flat out 100% wrong. I played EQ for years where this exact thing happened in there and is is something that fundamentally breaks the game.

Simply put 2hf cannot get any improvements when this items is there because is magnifies the imbalances. Anyone with the item is massivly advantaged over everyone who does not have the item. This creates the situation where everyone must have the item.

Allowing rarity to dictate power simply does not work. You simply repeat the task enough times to gain the item. Enough people do it, and then the item is no longer rare and the balance issue of the item proliferates throughout the system.

The "broken" element of the system is the power of the item. You fix the whole system by fixing the single item, not by changing the whole system for the single item.

Its an epic item made for epic quests. It is just fine, it s NOT over powered. Try one before you speak BS.

[Zack77]

You say they are intended for use in EPIC QUESTS. However, people use, and will continue to use, the ESoS OUTSIDE of epic quests. Yes, originally the ESoS was intended for use inside of epic quest. However, because people continue to use them outside of the content it was intended for, it became overpowered and thus needed a nerf. If you can't understand what I mean, I implore you to stop, think about what I'm saying, think about what you say and what you may say in the future, before posting a rebuttal.

[Mellkor]

Then epic quests will continue to be not run much if there are no real Epic Weapons to run them with. Again, it is NOT overpowered. Nothing wrong with an end game sword balanced for end game content. So what if I choose to use it to mow down some kobalds in some low level quest that I have already run a gazillion times. So now what is left is I get to run thru epics with a wiffle bat, yay. I enjoy doing epic, so I would like to keep my EPIC sword as is.


Some TWF MIN II builds out dps an Epic SoS THF build. Wait, they are getting NERFED too, so I guess that is OK. Still it would be great to have options other that TWF khopesh min II wielding zombie robots.

Weapons like Epic SoS are required mostly because of the insane amount of HP epic mobs have as well as blanket immunites, really leaves us with very few ways to combat them.

[Mellkor]

You say they are intended for use in EPIC QUESTS. However, people use, and will continue to use, the ESoS OUTSIDE of epic quests. Yes, originally the ESoS was intended for use inside of epic quest. However, because people continue to use them outside of the content it was intended for, it became overpowered and thus needed a nerf. If you can't understand what I mean, I implore you to stop, think about what I'm saying, think about what you say and what you may say in the future, before posting a rebuttal.

I bet you dont have an Epic SoS do ya?

[Zack77]

Your continued argument is that its meant for the End Game, which is Epic quests. However, people will, and do, use them outside of epic quests. If they had a way to make something like the Epic Sword of Shadows only usable if the difficulty is set to epic, by all means keep it the way it was originally. However, the mere fact that its easier to get than a MinII, let alone TWO for those "TWF MinII Khopesh Zombie Robots" as you put it, I feel that since it CAN be used outside of epic quests, that it does indeed deserve to be toned down. I'm all for the TWF nerf, I felt it needed a nerf, even though every melee I have up to this point is TWF.



And about me not having an ESoS? No, I never bothered, because A) I knew it was going to be nerfed, and B) I felt it was grossly overpowered when I first laid eyes on it.

[Mellkor]

Your continued argument is that its meant for the End Game, which is Epic quests. However, people will, and do, use them outside of epic quests. If they had a way to make something like the Epic Sword of Shadows only usable if the difficulty is set to epic, by all means keep it the way it was originally. However, the mere fact that its easier to get than a MinII, let alone TWO for those "TWF MinII Khopesh Zombie Robots" as you put it, I feel that since it CAN be used outside of epic quests, that it does indeed deserve to be toned down. I'm all for the TWF nerf, I felt it needed a nerf, even though every melee I have up to this point is TWF.



And about me not having an ESoS? No, I never bothered, because A) I knew it was going to be nerfed, and B) I felt it was grossly overpowered when I first laid eyes on it.

First of all grinding for epic SoS is harder than getting a greensteel weapon min II. I know since I have done both more than once.

Secondly Epic SoS is not overpowerd it has many limitations that keep it in check. If you actually used one you would know this. Even in high level content there are times where other weapons are better. Should we nerf those other weapons too? Since they are more powerful than the epic SoS, after all.

[SquelchHU]

I logged on once about a week ago just to collect expired auction stuff from my mailboxes. It turned out I was too late - every message/item in all my characters' mailboxes had expired and been deleted.

That is a good point. I have a bunch of auctions sitting there as well because I can't even motivate myself to log in for routine shrouds after the TWF gimping. And now this?

Well I can't say I didn't see this coming. With all the talk of Premium being an 'upgrade' I guess they figured they wouldn't lose any money by doing this since they already had it from all the people that believed this game would continue to deliver for over a year after. And that's precisely why I stayed monthly sub.

I am surprised they gimped out the epic ss ring though. From 315-1800 (1,057.5) to 165-900 (532.5). Nearly -50%. But I guess even the rarest epic in the game isn't good enough to be worth not needing you to buy more store pots...

By all means, show me the 5d6+10 "any old" greataxe that makes the ESoS look so ordinary now.

The sword needed nerfing, it needed nerfing every since they leaked the details before VoN went epic. There were long threads about how it was ridiculously over the top. And it was. Now it will be slightly less so, yes...SLIGHTLY less so. It's still a crushingly powerful weapon.

82.5 average damage on a crit. That's just the base weapon. Not even including strength, rage, weapon spec, kensai, seeker, etc. Just adding a Bloodstone and the damage goes to 100.5...and with a threat range of 15-20 with Imp Crit: Slash.

Completely basic +5 Greensteel Greataxe: 3d6+5.

Down by 2d6+5, average 12 (36 on a crit).

So let's say the Greensteel is a tier 2 pos/pos.

In auto crit situations you get average 7 from the holy, average 3.5 from the pure good, and average 14 from the holy burst.

...Wait what the [censored], epic sos only does 10.5 more damage than a tier 2 GS in auto crit situations?

Total cost of GS tier 2: 1 Large Scale (for the blank).
Total cost of Epic SoS: 3 Large Scales for the scroll alone, lots and lots of grinding or bounty posting for the other parts.

Epic Failure of Epic SoS: Over 9,000!!!

(If you compare to a Min 2, the gap is smaller. If you compare to a Lit 2, which is a better trash mob weapon anyways it will probably do more damage now.)

[Thrudh]

What needed to be nerfed was the droprate and how easy the sword was to get.

Not it's power.

LOL... Don't you already have one???