Help me get some more SPOT SKILL PLS

[Huntcrow]

Here is my build. Any suggestions on getting more SPOT SKILL would be helpful.

Gargaman Huntcrow
Level 7 Neutral Good Halfling Male
(2 Rogue / 5 Wizard)
Hit Points: 74
Spell Points: 390

BAB: 3/3
Fortitude: 1
Reflex: 8
Will: 4

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 7)
Strength 10 10
Dexterity 14 14
Constitution 8 8
Intelligence 18 19
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 12 12

Starting Ending
Base Skills Base Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 7)
Balance 6 8
Bluff 1 1
Concentration 1 3
Diplomacy 5 10
Disable Device 8 14
Haggle 5 6
Heal -1 -1
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 1 1
Jump 0 0
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock 6 11
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 5
Search 8 12.5
Spot 3 6
Swim 0 0
Tumble 6 7
Use Magic Device 5 8.5

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I

Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage I

Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Inscribe Scroll
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I

Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I

Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I

Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II

Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II

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http://my.ddo.com/huntcrow/tag/more-spot-pls/
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[Laprion]

well base wisdom is -1 to spot need items to boost it lvl 7 u can get +7 item

all i can say is should have taken the 2nd lvl of rouge later

Off topic but you also have a low con so that is gonna hurt ya end content

the way i see you are built high lvl traps might be a problem from u need to max you DD every lvl

[Freeman]

With an 8 Con, it isn't going to matter if you see it coming or not...

[Huntcrow]

As per Constitution. I will relay on Tomes. But the end build provides enough HP I think. Just have to compensate with good twitch play and... know your place. (Rogue/Wizard) not tank.

What I find my self get disappointed about is that the Rogue Spot skill master build (focusing on Skill Spot) would provide a pure rogue with 30+ Spot and with Clicke's and such there is a huge difference from what my build will produce.. only 16(unbuffed no clicke's.. the question is would it be enough for end Elite content as a viable spot skill.

I am beginning to question the fundamentals of Spot.

With maps of every quest available... do i really need spot?

I can search. My search will be viable at near 40 (level 20) I believe.

So do i give up dex or int for wis that is the question.. and how much do i sacrifice? and for what end?

[cpito]

As per Constitution. I will relay on Tombs.

I know this is bordering on trollish but I find this statement to be ironically humorous. Relying on tomes to make up for an 8 starting con will certainly land you in a tomb, especially in endgame content where you will likely get taken out of the action with one hit. And by "taken out" I mean either dead or being too busy standing on the sidelines healing yourself. Con really isn't a dump stat in this game and I recommend that no character start with number that gives you negatives to your base hp (ie: less than 10)

PS spot is good for more than just detecting when a trap is nearby, it also allows you to see stealthed mobs

[vVAnjilaVv]

I'm sorry.....but to be blatantly honest here.....you are better off rerolling.

Taking your first rogue level at 1 is great in fact recommended........but the second level of rouge should be taken much later so you can take full ranks of rogue skills and make up some lost ground, not to mention as a wizard your base INT will naturally go up and u'll get more skill points per level later.

Your CON is also way too low.........+2 tomes are commom but are still going to leave you at least 40-60 hp's lower than a 12-14 base con which is where any class should be.

You won't have improved evasion so you'll end up still being vulnerable to being one shot by very damaging spells.....and even if your reflex save is really high....1's happen often enough to make a difference.

*shrugs* It's your build, play it how you will, just pointing out things you may regret when you get to higher levels.....you'll also be losing the self healing a wf'ed would get.

[Huntcrow]

Here is a very rough unfinished projection forward to level 20. HP 148. You guys sound like you have end game experience. I have only played DDO for about a month. I have been playing pnp for years~ but don't know what DDO ONLINE is like end game.

Hit Points: 148

Obviously this is unbuffed. Your telling me as a support character this amount of hit points will not do end game? If so. I'm sure I can squeeze more HPs out of the build. But I still want to think that 200HP give or take, would be fine in a group environment. Solo maybe another story. Further more this character is currently almost level7 and soloing normal quests.
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Gargaman Huntcrow
Level 20 Neutral Good Halfling Male
(2 Rogue / 18 Wizard)
Hit Points: 148
Spell Points: 1519

BAB: 10/10/15/20
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 14
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 10 10
Dexterity 14 18
Constitution 8 8
Intelligence 18 25
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 12 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 9
Bluff 1 1
Concentration 1 7
Diplomacy 5 10
Disable Device 8 23
Haggle 5 6
Heal -1 -1
Hide 2 6
Intimidate 1 1
Jump 0 2
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 2 6
Open Lock 6 21
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 7
Search 8 24.5
Spot 3 16
Swim 0 0
Tumble 6 8
Use Magic Device 5 16.5


Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness*
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I

Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage I

Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I *
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I

Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I

Level 5 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I

Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II

Level 7 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II *
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II

Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II

Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III

Level 10 (Wizard)

Level 11 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III

Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I

Level 13 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III

Level 14 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV

Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV

Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT

Level 17 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III

Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements III

Level 19 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Rogue Cold Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Electric Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I

Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Halfling Fear Resistance I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
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10AP still not distributed~
This build is not finished and is in fact just a sketch of what my final build might look like.
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[vVAnjilaVv]

Thing is, once people know your squeezing 200 HP at level 20....you will only be left with solo'ing, as nobody is going to want you for the most part...and forget about getting into raids.

If you wanna continue with the build it's your choice and you will probably even have fun with it, but I can tell you right now, people that use MyDDO will have you on squelch once they have looked you up once and see you have 8 CON.

If I were you I would find a very kind and generous guild.

Sorry, this is the way it is in DDO.

[Huntcrow]

I was interested to see what a rogue focused on spot would look like and for a comparative... With buffs and so on the pure spot rogue is king. However, how or who has found the minimum DC check on what is required for a high level spot check?
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SPOT_test rogue
Level 20 Neutral Good Halfling Male
(20 Rogue)
Hit Points: 120
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 15/15/20/2525
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 15
Will: 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 10 10
Dexterity 14 14
Constitution 8 8
Intelligence 18 18
Wisdom 8 13 *
Charisma 12 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 6
Bluff 1 5
Concentration -1 3
Diplomacy 1 5
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 5
Heal -1 5
Hide 2 8
Intimidate 1 5
Jump 0 6
Listen -1 9
Move Silently 2 8
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 8
Search 4 8
Spot 3 34 *
Swim 0 4
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Spot
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I

Level 2 (Rogue)

Level 3 (Rogue)

Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS *

Level 5 (Rogue)

Level 6 (Rogue)

Level 7 (Rogue)

Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS *

Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Alertness *

Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery *

Level 11 (Rogue)

Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS *

Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery *

Level 14 (Rogue)

Level 15 (Rogue)

Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery

Level 17 (Rogue)

Level 18 (Rogue)

Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery

Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS *
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[vVAnjilaVv]

OK...the first thing you need to do when you make a build, is start with a 12-14 con...sometimes 10 is ok, sometimes 16 is affordable.

Even if it's just a test you want to use suitable stat point allocation.....I'm sorry, anything under 10 CON is just going to get you laughed out of most parties.

I would use your PnP experience VERY loosely when your translating to DDO.

[Huntcrow]

This is your opinion and it maybe valid vVAnjilaVv. However, i 'm not good at giving up..soloing is more appealing to me. How much HP should a caster have at level 20? 300HP?

[Huntcrow]

OK...the first thing you need to do when you make a build, is start with a 12-14 con...sometimes 10 is ok, sometimes 16 is affordable.

Even if it's just a test you want to use suitable stat point allocation.....I'm sorry, anything under 10 CON is just going to get you laughed out of most parties.

I would use your PnP experience VERY loosely when your translating to DDO.

vVAnjilaVv if you are talking about the spot build i have only allocated points for the purposes of increasing Spot. That build has a large amount of points still to be distributed. Only view this build as a 'look at' end game spot skill.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Caster, yeah, you wanna have at least 300 HP end game. If you prefer solo'ing ...well you'll be working at your own pace and your builds may well work because you have time to use all your little tricks.

With a build squeezing 200 HP you really are blocking the door to raid access tho and it's a nice option if you ever want some nice gear.

Honestly, if u wanna just explore at your own pace and are not too worried about raids and the like, well......experiment.

Some people can actually do ok with low HP builds, it's just they are seen as liabilities in parties. With casual and normal and including scaling....you will be able to actually get far solo'ing with a low HP build.

Once u start stepping into hard and elite dungeons, and normal with a full party your going to get hammered, build a bad rep and you will ONLY be able to solo.

You have to ask yourself if u want to box urself in like that.

Back to your original question, with good gear and a shroud HP item you should really not have a problem hitting 350'ish on a 12 CON caster by end game. Many people will tell you higher is better but it's not necessarily needed.

BTW...about the spot test build, that is all fine and good...however and I know it takes a little extra time...when planning a build even just for testing purposes, build it all the way to 20 and throughly, there will simply be too many little things here and there you won't notice by only partially building that will effect sometimes critical choices.



Little guide to HP btw.....

Heroic Durability {granted free at level 1} 20 hp
d4-d12 depending on class 80-240 hp
Toughness feat 22 hp per each time acquired 22 HP
Toughness {one of these is very easily accessible by level 11 and has heavy fort on it} 20 HP
Draconic Vitality {granted after getting 150 Agent of Argonnessen favor} 10 HP
Shroud tier III item 45 hp
Racial toughness {enhancement and will very on what race u are as to how high you can get it} 20-40 HP
Class toughness {enhancement, only certain classes get this line} 10-40 HP
CON Modifier +20 HP per each 2 points above 10
False Life Item {by end game you want at least a greater false life item on, easy to obtain} 5-30 hp

Assuming a 12 base con, wearing a +6 CON item, Racial Toughness tier II {accesible to all races} and a +2 CON tome to bring total con to 20, Greater False Life Item, Shroud Tier III item, Toughness feat x1, Minos Legen {toughness item I mentioned}, Heroic Durability and Draconic Vitality......these will be your HP totals for pure class builds.

WZD/SORC 347 HP
BRD/ROG 387
RNG/CLR/MONK/FVS 407
FGT 427
BRB 447

[Huntcrow]

Great stuff vVAnjilaVv! My appreciation...

[vVAnjilaVv]

Great stuff vVAnjilaVv! My appreciation...

Just can't bear the sight of a low HP build is all No problem glad I could help