If cleric has sp please heal

[hockeyrama]

I was in whisperdoom today and had a group that was actually doing quite well. We went through on normal and the pally who was playing noticed that the cleric was not healing anyone and the pally had to do it. Now on norm that was fine as we took very little damage so I figured it was just that it wanted to save the sp for when we really needed it.

Now we went in on hard and same thing happened. However, this time it was much worse. I was playing a rogue and on norm I tied most kills and had the most on hard. The way I get kills is by not being the one with aggro as when I get my backstab I clean house. However, once I get aggro I can't take the hits very well. I have 172hp at level 13 and with false life and other buffs can bring it higher. I also wear heavy fort items, so once I start getting hit you can see me going down. Now, in the city section we had no issues until the last room, and then I got aggro from the one guy and since everyone else was not injured it should ahve been easy for the cleric and pally to heal me up. The pally through me a heal but the damage came faster then the pally's heal. The cleric did nothing. So I died. The shrine is not far so not that big a deal but to let a guy die for no real reason was kinda weird.

Then later the rest of the adventure the same kept happening. Then after repeated cries from the group he finally throw out a few heals. I asked him nicely to try to use his sp to heal and was ignored. He had 80% of his sp available and yet he oly healed in between fights the odd time (not all the time) and he wanded it instead of touching his sp at all. So we all used pots and stuff. however, that adventure is fairly easy until you meet whisperdoom. So even there he is leaving any heals to the pally. So eventually everyone but the ranger and me die. We grab stones and run to the shrine and the cleric recalled out (eventhough we had his stone and he had sp) and jumped back in. So one member left as he said this is not going to work. We tried again and we got whisper to almost dead but again since no real heals going we died.

I had the wife asking me to go get groceries with her and so I told everyone sorry I really have to go.

That was the end to a very frustrating experience that could have easily been an easy adventure. If the cleric just healed no deaths would have occured.

Note:
If you see a level 3 Barb, Level 3 fighter, Level 8 cleric he won't heal. Unless it is a different one then the one we had. Also, befre we quit on the hard I had about 45 kills two others where in the 37-38 range and he had 8 (so he not kill stuff eithier). I will not name him as it is not good to post names on forum or even in game just giving you all a warning to be carefull if you see clerics with a fighter setup like this. YOu may not expect them to heal alot but if you get that one don't expect it at all.

[DoctorWhofan]

3 fighter and 3 barb and 8 cleric??? He is seriously gimped. 3 fighter 8 cleric yes, or the barb. BUT BOTH?!?! Put him on you DNP list and move on.


Advisement. make sure your healer will HEAL at hte beginning of the party. Even if he was a pure cleric, he deserved the DNP list. When the pally HAS to heal andthe cleric stands around doing nothing and wand whipping at the boss fight, he has bigger issues than his build.

[Lithic]

You expected someone with 8 levels of cleric (8clr/3barb/3fighter) to heal your group of lvl 14s? THe problem was not the cleric, the problem was the party leader accepting such a weirdo class combo and assuming he would be healbotting when needed.

[Missing_Minds]

I'm not certain how it works with divine, but arcane, you "rage" like that, you can't cast.

still... bad player.

[DaggomaticDwarf]

Ill bet he was raged and couldn't throw out any spells at all, so yes a very gimp'd out build imo

[Talon_Moonshadow]

The Whisperdoom endfight is one of the few places in the game that I often feel I need a healer.

She puts out some damage if you get her agro. And she debuffs too. Making it difficult for most chars to last against her without some help.

Actually I believe a Cleric using Searing Light does purple damage to her....but it doesn't sound like you guy was doing that either.

I think you need to ask an odd build like that if he will/can heal you.
I think it is a mistake to assume a build like that will be a dedicated healer.

However, I always say that every one no matter what class they are, needs to do whatever is needed for the party to succeed.

And while I do think people are too hard on his build, it does look like a new player's build to me....so again, a mistake to expect too much from him IMO.

But in all fairness, that end fight is tough for most PUGs. Blaming it on one guy is not right. You already know your Rogue is squishy. And here's a quest where your build's weakness showed more than most. Rogues tend to have bad Fort and Will saves too. And she dispels resists, and hits you with acid and burning blood....etc.

That fight takes a coordinated effort from everyone using effective weapons and taking her out fast.
I see many PUGs that just do not have weapons that can get through her Dr, people who cannot stay unstuck from webs, and people who cannot stand up to the various types of punishment she and her minions put out.

Don't blame the odd Cleric guy....learn from it. Don't take someone like that and expect him to be a stellar healer. And try to realise that it is more than just one guys fault.

I've been the only person in that fght who seemed to be able to do any significant damage to her....and I've done it on squishy toons.....and not been healed....and died. And watched everyone else die right after me.
And I've been mad that the cleric didn't keep me up.

But that cleric may have been stuck in webs, and/or getting interupted by taking damage of his own....etc.

It's a tough fight.

[hockeyrama]

I not saying we expected him to be a group healer, most of us were self sufficient so he was able to save sp, had over 80% when we went to face whisper. I also was wearing a greater res cloack for fire and acid buff was thrown on as well. I wear a heavy fort necklace from sovereign. She kept going after me as I was one of the only ones damaging her as you mentioned it not that easy. So it not like I complainng that he needed to be a dedicated healer the whole adventure or anything we were fine. The whole group had a problem when everyone except me and the ranger died and he never threw out one heal and had over 80% sp left.

My point is if you have a cleric build and have sp you can fight. I know I do with my cleric. However, if the group needs the heals like in a tough fight then step back a sec and dish some out.

I could understand if he was raged the first time but he never healed the second time eithier.

Whether a pally, a cleric , fvs or bard if you have sp and heal spells in my mind there is no excuse not to use them in a rough situation. No point saving them and letting everyone die. Yes, you can fight but the prudent course for the group is pull back and cast some heals and then jump back in. Letting everyone die just to try ot show you can fight or something is not worth it.

I could also understand if he acted like a fighter. He never went into a room first, he never engaged anything first, and did not do alot of damage and rarely was he able to actually help kill anything. I think he had less then 10 kills on normal and I know he had less then 10 on hard.

SO I don't see any argument for his character. He never healed, he never killed, he never drew aggro (so he could say he was tanking). I just don't see any reason to have a player like that in any group.


Alos, I not blame the fail on him completely, like I said we did almost beat whisper down without his heals, we did have a good group. As you said whisper can be hard. It just that if he not going to be effective fighting and not going to heal all he did was make whiper a higher level CR for the rest of us and that bit of difference would have made us kill her instead of just run short.

[Impaqt]

-Blah blah blah
Note:
If you see a level 3 Barb, Level 3 fighter, Level 8 cleric he won't heal. Unless it is a different one then the one we had. Also, befre we quit on the hard I had about 45 kills two others where in the 37-38 range and he had 8 (so he not kill stuff eithier). I will not name him as it is not good to post names on forum or even in game just giving you all a warning to be carefull if you see clerics with a fighter setup like this. YOu may not expect them to heal alot but if you get that one don't expect it at all.

Theres yer sign....

[Burtle]

Theres yer sign....

If the cleric just stands there and you ask him "Are you gonna heal" and just looks back and says "Nope..I'm gonna throw sticks at it and hope it goes away"...

[biggin]

As someone stated earlier, that wasn't a cleric. That was a new player who thought they were making a self healing DPS. If you ever see a build like that and you don't know them, rest assured that it's going to be an epic fail. Really good players can pull off weird builds, problem is 97% of weird builds are by bad players. Unless it's someone from a respected guild, or they send you a tell and let you know up front that they can handle the role they are supposed to be filling just save yourself the trouble and get a pocket cleric.

[Ashiel_Dragmire]

And here I thought this was going to be a "Clerics = Walking Potions" vs a "Heal yourself, these are MY SPs" discussion.

Glad I'm wrong.

It does seem more like someone was trying out a wacky build, but even more so like someone is a terrible player. The good thing is you got to test your self-sufficiency, so when you have a Cleric or Favored Soul who can heal, you'll be able to help them by keeping yourself alive as well.

But yeah, poor players, we all come across them at some point. Better luck next time mate.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

That build makes it kind of obvious they aren't a healer.

[hecate355]

leaving aside all indications that he was new player and didnt seem to have any clue what hes doing

did you seriously thought someone with 8 levels of cleric can do main healing through that quest at hard with all the respawns and stuff? I agree this was leaders mistake taking such build for main healer

best level 8 cleric combo can do there is to buff party and leave some for selfbuffs

you dont have to be bad player actually to not be able to heal well with such combination of levels, it only needs low starting wis, no enhancements supporting cure/maxmana and there you go, you got some1 who cant heal, im not saying these kind of choices make sense or are ok in most of context.

there is something a lot of people dont understand, having bunch(maybe majority) of cleric levels dont make you heal, i once had pure cleric level 8 who couldnt heal for rats a*** he had very nice damage, str and all (didnt say dps, no cleric can do dps), selfbuffed, buffed others, made cleric save mana for heals, it all worked well, but i repeat, his healing abilities were totally cut off. Today id never do that kind of char, just brought this up as an example of how this can be done and be quite effective up to certain levels.

[hockeyrama]

I agree if he actually did damage. He rarely did any damage. So if you not going to hurt stuff then as a cleric you should heal.

Also, the main point is the title of this thread.

If he had the sp why did he not heal. I not discuss how bad he heals or not. He did not heal at all form his sp. He did the odd wand heal but never touched his sp. If you have the sp why would you not try a few heals to help the group. It makes no sense to sit there and watch everyone die and still save your sp. What are you saving it for "a rauny day". Well everyone dead, that was a rainy day.

I am the first to acknowledge that many builds can do different things but if you in a group you should try to help it. It would be like a rogue saying while i have a high reflex so I can run through the traps and eventhough I could disable them I won't.

It would be like a fighter saying I am going to stay back behind casters and if anything comes to attack me I will attack them.

I not saying if you a cleric you need to go out of your way to wand after your sp is gone by why not use your sp. It just makes no sense at all.

[soloman]

In my opinion, it was the entire parties fault for allowing themselves to be put in the situation they got in and more so its the the PLs fault.

First off when you get a class setup like the subject of the OP was, the first thing the PL must ask them is whether they will be able to fullfill the role they were recruited for. If the player says no, then you either ask them to exit or make due and notify the rest of the party of the situation.

I am not trying to make excuses for the player in question, I am just saying that when in a 6 man or 12 man group everyone is accountable for the success or faliure of a mission. Accountability I think its called

Often times when you see a player of this kind of build, they work hard to show all they pug with that peeps shouldnt pidgeon-hole them into some preset classification. IMO, those who play like that, arent ready for a complex build of that nature and should wait till they are more experienced to do so.

One thing that you must be able to keep in mind is that Clerics are not the only class that can heal. How often do you look at the Ranger in the groups SP bar when you are low in health? I am betting not often.

Nontheless, I am sorry to hear (read) of you experience with this player and hope your future exploits with battle healers goes better ~ Peace

[Krag]

I can only repeat what was already said:
If you need a nanny - get a nanny! Make sure your party includes someone who can make your bobo go away.

[KillEveryone]

I was running Tear in a group that had a cleric that had a level of barbarian on them.

I also casted Rage(I like rage, nice little spell.)

The cleric tried to blame me for them not being able to cast since I casted Rage.

[taurean430]

Best way to know what someone with a multiclass build plans to bring to the table is to ask them. It annoys me when people do this on my 18/2 fvs/monk, yet I understand the reasons why and provide specifics for them.

If you guys went into the quest without the leader finding out if the multiclass cleric can heal when that's what the party wanted; shame on them.

If you went back into the same quest on a higher difficulty with the multiclass cleric expecting them to fufill a role they obviously were not able to... where does the actual blame lie?

You are all about the reason for the quest failing being because a player did not live up to the presumption of what their icon denotes. Yet, at the same time you entered into the quest on a more difficult setting post seeing them in action the first time. That forfeits any and all blame you want to lay on the other player... bad build/player or not.

I took a look at this yesterday and chose not to respond. Yet the advice you have been given is solid. So I'm failing to understand what the issue is.

[hockeyrama]

I agree we did make the decision to go in again. We also needed almost no heals at all on the norm run and the pally did it with no real problems. So yea I knew he was a multi cleric and I knew the pally said he setup to do a fair amount of healing if needed.

So after the first run it was the pally who said I don't think he threw out any heals at all. I said I never saw any, but then again, I never needed any on the first, except one heal when I was ranged and came out of sneak before a fight.

The advice I am getting is sound. Yes, I knew he would not do alot of healing. However, I also knew the party was a good group except for him (all players I had added as friends that I played with before and knew they were good). We did not need alot of healing from him so i had no concern.

The post is not about group makeup per say, it is about people contributing to a group. He had sp, so why not heal, even if it was limited. That is the point. That is what I wanted to discuss. Why is it that more and more I keep seeing clerics who just don't want to use their sp. This guy was the worse, yes, but not the only. I am also not talking about while they are fighting. I am talking about anytime. They just seem to want to save sp. It weird that sorcs, and wiz seem to spend sp to help the group more frequently lately then many of the clerics I have seen.

This is not to say all clerics are bad just noticing a trend. I play a battle/healing cleric on another server and fight and then heal when I see a problem or in between fights or basically when the situation calls for it.

So why is it that noone is discussing the clerics not using sp. Instead people are saying you can't except that build into a grou pand expect it to heal at all. A level 8 cleric can do a fair amount of healing so he coul dhave done some. He made the decision to do none.

Now, you say why did we not ask him? We did, many times. He never responded, no types, no voice, he just ignored are questions and just went right on staying in the back and basically doing nothing.

NOw, I can understand thinking he a noob, with that build. However, at level 14 (3barb, 3 fighter and 8 cleric) he would have had to spend a fair amount of time to get there. SO he should understand the mechanics of healing.

If he was level 6 (1 barb, 2 fighter, 3 cleric ) I would agree that he should not have been allowed in group.


My main reason on looking here for comments is to get players to wary for this guy, to make sure that players understand that if they have sp they should use it and to try to avoid having players like this in the future.

[AyumiAmakusa]

One word. Gimped.