Whining

[Sabvre]

I am a somewhat new player, having been on DDO for around 3 months. However, I have been following the forums for a while and I've come to the conclusion that 90% of you guys are whiners.

1.) "TWF/THF Nerf"
I am sorry to have my introductory post be like this, but seriously will you guys **** about how horrible nerfing is. As several other commentors have stated Nerfing is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to have proper balance. By just buffing everyone you create hyperinflated skills, instances and problems.

I have been a developer on other games myself, and i can tell you from first hand experience it drives us bonkers when you complain about nerfs. I understand that you like your character and you enjoy being powerful, but you cannot create balance just by buffing.

Think about a teeter-totter... you continue to add weight to one side, the other goes up, so you add weight to that and back and forth. Eventually the WHOLE DARN thing breaks due to much weight.

2.) "-10 Saves would make Epic like preschool!"
I'm sorry if you've been playing the game for 4 years and have collected everything you possibly could need, but there are other people that would like to enjoy this game while maintaining a REAL life. Just because you have had to time to TR 4x and your spell penetration is abnormally high doesn't mean it breaks the system. It means you are TOO strong and you deserve to be overpowered.

3.) "Premium / F2P Players are noobs and worthless"
Once again i'm sorry to say this, but i feel like Premium should be higher valued than VIPs. In my 3 months of playing i've contributed more money to Turbine than you guys have in 8-9 months. The purchase content model appeals to be me more as i have a real life outside of the game and I cannot justify paying a monthly subscription when my activity may fluxuate.

3.) "Turbine Points means Turbine is greedy!!!"
Do you realize how expensive the overhead for a MMO is?
1.) Server Farms
A.) Hardware - Depending on if they are running Linux or MS-Server their costs can fluxuate greatly PER machine. A normal server box could handle maybe 100 players each. The calculations in this game are INTENSIVE. In otherwords they have to buy boxes and link them together to create server farms.
B.) Network Bandwidth - A T3 connection is well over $5000 a month... thats like 400 (333.33 but some of you buy the vip packages) of you VIP players alone.
C.) Electricty - The electricity in a development firm with these kind of servers is probably $10,000 minimum a month.
2.) Software Developers
A.) In the United States Software developers make $50-110K a year. 10 Coders means they are paying out over $500,000- $1Million annually. This is also excluding the costs of the social security tax, benefits, unemployment insurance etc.
3.) Public Relations/ Marketing/
A.) In order to make money, a company must spend money to draw in revenue. Every one of their banners they post costs them money. Every add they take out in gaming magazines/ conventions costs money.

[sinohptik]

isnt this post itself whining?

though i will agree that too many people are too quick to speak on things they dont understand... I think that point was in there somewhere...

edit: and on the whole vet/f2p/premium topic; personally, i find i get all the respect i could want, despite what my join date says (most understand join date means very little, but can still be used as a tool of sorts). I think that attitude is more present on the forums than in the game itself, but my point stands. Im more than willing to say i dont know something though, and love when i fail due to my own misconceptions (no better way to learn). Its others that may call me a vet, i call myself a perpetual noob (always have so much more to learn, in anything). Its when some pretend to know more than they do, or get into an ego contest (ive paid more money than you!), that problems seem to arise.

Either way, what was the point of such a post? Figure ill try to make it constructive so im not simply feeding the trolls... haha. Are you trying to wake people up to the idea that "its not so bad?" Maybe have some look at their own actions as they are so quick to judge others actions? I guess i can get behind that..

[DoctorWhofan]

I am a somewhat new player, having been on DDO for around 3 months. However, I have been following the forums for a while and I've come to the conclusion that 90% of you guys are whiners.

1.) "TWF/THF Nerf"
I am sorry to have my introductory post be like this, but seriously will you guys **** about how horrible nerfing is. As several other commentors have stated Nerfing is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to have proper balance. By just buffing everyone you create hyperinflated skills, instances and problems.

This is normal. Doomsayers come out of the woodworks at every nerf. Most left from the last nerf. Forthe record, it isn't that bad. Reading comperhesion FTW.

I have been a developer on other games myself, and i can tell you from first hand experience it drives us bonkers when you complain about nerfs. I understand that you like your character and you enjoy being powerful, but you cannot create balance just by buffing.

They are used to it. And you are correct. Stressing out about the whiners doesn't help, btw. Let them whine and their threads will be absorb by another thread or the Cube.

Think about a teeter-totter... you continue to add weight to one side, the other goes up, so you add weight to that and back and forth. Eventually the WHOLE DARN thing breaks due to much weight.

2.) "-10 Saves would make Epic like preschool!"
I'm sorry if you've been playing the game for 4 years and have collected everything you possibly could need, but there are other people that would like to enjoy this game while maintaining a REAL life. Just because you have had to time to TR 4x and your spell penetration is abnormally high doesn't mean it breaks the system. It means you are TOO strong and you deserve to be overpowered.

Again, let them whine. Maybe they will leave.


3.) "Premium / F2P Players are noobs and worthless"
Once again i'm sorry to say this, but i feel like Premium should be higher valued than VIPs. In my 3 months of playing i've contributed more money to Turbine than you guys have in 8-9 months. The purchase content model appeals to be me more as i have a real life outside of the game and I cannot justify paying a monthly subscription when my activity may fluxuate.

Excuse me? N00bs are worthless, but Newbies are worth alot. As for Vip vs Premium? ( $15 x 50)x 2 ($12x 24) = what my hubby and I paid in the last 4 years. When you were not around andthis game was "dying" No Sub, but paid some cash, you get some privilages. I was very much in your window until this statement. You lost points.

3.) "Turbine Points means Turbine is greedy!!!"
Do you realize how expensive the overhead for a MMO is?

Agreed. The F2P who whine about not able to get stuff for free gotta realise that you get MORE than you paid for.

1.) Server Farms
A.) Hardware - Depending on if they are running Linux or MS-Server their costs can fluxuate greatly PER machine. A normal server box could handle maybe 100 players each. The calculations in this game are INTENSIVE. In otherwords they have to buy boxes and link them together to create server farms.
B.) Network Bandwidth - A T3 connection is well over $5000 a month... thats like 400 (333.33 but some of you buy the vip packages) of you VIP players alone.
C.) Electricty - The electricity in a development firm with these kind of servers is probably $10,000 minimum a month.
2.) Software Developers
A.) In the United States Software developers make $50-110K a year. 10 Coders means they are paying out over $500,000- $1Million annually. This is also excluding the costs of the social security tax, benefits, unemployment insurance etc.
3.) Public Relations/ Marketing/
A.) In order to make money, a company must spend money to draw in revenue. Every one of their banners they post costs them money. Every add they take out in gaming magazines/ conventions costs money.

IN LIME: Agreed. The F2P who whine about not able to get stuff for free gotta realise that you get MORE than you paid for. It is the biggest beef and I know Turbine give the best deal for F2P.

Saying that, you need to respect some of us who DID support the game for 4 years straight. You are not privlaged because you have been in their shoes. You should have a little prespective that subs can carry a game through during the lean times.

Saying that, we vets have been very hard on our developers. We get expect the highest standard from them, because they are FAR BETTER DEVELOPERS THAN ANY OTHER OUT THERE. Bar none. THey a imaginitive and clever and we expect them to do great things for us. Therefore we complain and whine and pick when it is sub par (in our eyes). Not the best method, but I can say for myself that I have the highest confidence in Turbine as a rule. THey haven't failed me yet.

You, mister 6 months, haven't seen us at our worst or our best. You haven't seen the long threads cheering the Devs and the game. YOU WHERE NOT HERE. Stop judging us and we will stop judging you.

[Missing_Minds]

Stop judging us and we will stop judging you.

Rough day?

Op, feel free to whine yourself, or just let people do as they are going to do regardless of what you desire or feel. You can spew facts as much as you want, but it does not weigh against opinion of the self righteous. *shrugs*

[Stormanne]

3.) "Premium / F2P Players are noobs and worthless"
Once again i'm sorry to say this, but i feel like Premium should be higher valued than VIPs. In my 3 months of playing i've contributed more money to Turbine than you guys have in 8-9 months. The purchase content model appeals to be me more as i have a real life outside of the game and I cannot justify paying a monthly subscription when my activity may fluxuate.

You had a good thing going until you spouted this nonsense. I've been here for four years, with two subs for a year of that and paying full price for three years of that. All in all, I've spent $840 just on subs. And, that's not including what I've spent on Turbine Points for extra character slots, Favored Soul, and extra banks slots. You assume that we VIPs don't buy Turbine points and items out of the DDO store as well. So take that self righteous tone and shove it. If it wasn't for those of us that stuck it out and kept paying our subs while you and the rest of the world were DDO, you wouldn't have this game to play.

/off of soap box

Aside from that little tirade above, I agree with most of what you said...

[knightgf]

I have been a developer on other games myself, and i can tell you from first hand experience it drives us bonkers when you complain about nerfs.

Have been...

What happened? Did you get fired or something? Theres no need to tell who you used to work for, since that would be a horrible thing to ask...

[phillymiket]

Its everyone's right to whine I suppose.
My solution? Wine!

The only thing I wish is that people would get a grip with the fact that this is a business not a crucial social service. They ARE just trying to make money and that's why there is a game. A "not for profit" game would be the stinkiest game ever made, I'm sure. They best make money by pleasing their player base as a whole the best they can.

Turbine is no more trying to "trick" you or "cheat" you then Mars is "tricking" you by offering a new candy bar, changing an old one or offering a new marketing campaign.
(I wonder what other letters and posts some people write. "Lost canceled!!! I've invested hours in this show!! You've destroyed my life! I'll never watch anything you produce again!")

As far as the complaints about game mechanics? I'm just glad there are players who understand how the systems work because it's Greek to me. I could be wrong but it seems like some things change and are improved based on player "whining" (feedback).

Keep "whining" I say but if you think its a plot against the players or that Turbine is doing something immoral just realize dollars will get you doughnuts the staff at Turbine reads your posts as irrational.

As far as your comments on the operating costs, don't know. But in my line of work when I hear people complain about the cost of a martini vs the cost of a bottle of vodka/gin, I always think to myself "you have NO idea".

[lazylaz]

3.) "Premium / F2P Players are noobs and worthless"
Once again i'm sorry to say this, but i feel like Premium should be higher valued than VIPs. In my 3 months of playing i've contributed more money to Turbine than you guys have in 8-9 months. The purchase content model appeals to be me more as i have a real life outside of the game and I cannot justify paying a monthly subscription when my activity may fluxuate.

You have no idea how much money I or anybody else has spent on the game as a VIP. And I know quite a few players who are Premium, either from upgrading or downgrading, who are neither noobish or worthless.

I don't accept your apology since you have tarred everyone with the same brush.

Otherwise, yes there is a lot of whining.

[Zachski]

The difference between Premium and VIP...

Premium - Burst funds, has a cap when the most expensive permenant buys are all bought, and then dwindles as the reusable but not necessary stuff barely gets bought. This is handy money, but it's not reliable, which makes it harder to plan around.

VIP - Steady funds. Outside of a VIP cancelling, they're paying constantly. They still have to spend Turbine Points on some things, but at the same time, they get to preview what the game is about to become. They get the most cost-effective deal really, and at the same time, their money is constant, and reliable.

Budgets can be planned around reliable money, even if it generates less revenue than burst funds. Burst funds, however, can't be budgeted around because they're not guaranteed.

[Mad_ScientistsNH]

Welcome to gaming forums! I have never seen one that wasn't just full of whining. Actually, this one seems to have less than most.

[Gorkulon]

You had a good thing going until you spouted this nonsense. I've been here for four years, with two subs for a year of that and paying full price for three years of that. All in all, I've spent $840 just on subs. And, that's not including what I've spent on Turbine Points for extra character slots, Favored Soul, and extra banks slots. You assume that we VIPs don't buy Turbine points and items out of the DDO store as well. So take that self righteous tone and shove it. If it wasn't for those of us that stuck it out and kept paying our subs while you and the rest of the world were DDO, you wouldn't have this game to play.

/off of soap box

Aside from that little tirade above, I agree with most of what you said...

I own many, many APs from $40 ddo purchase and earning favor. Why would I want to spend $840 over 4 years when I'm well on my way to owning all of the content for less than $150. Thank you so, so very much for propping the game up on your shoulders. What would we ever do without you?

[eonfreon]

I am a somewhat new player, having been on DDO for around 3 months. However, I have been following the forums for a while and I've come to the conclusion that 90% of you guys are whiners.

Now that you got this whine out of your system, don't you feel a whole lot better?

[Ode1st]

The original poster also has to realize that internet + games brings out the worst in human personality.

[Buggss]

A lot of what you said is true but 90% of all "you guys"? refers to who? Forum-readers or DDO players?

I have to assume you mean forum-readers as we're the only ones reading this so if you actually take a look at ALL the areas on the forums accessable for DDO players, most of the "whining" occurs on a specific server area, general or suggestions. That's nowhere near 90%!

Did you expect the thread to change anything or was it just to let off some 3 month old steam anyway?

[Kalari]

Dear Turbine,

I am new here but I already know that I am better then your Vets. I mean how dare they complain when you change things that affects their builds. And though I have not run a large percent of your quests or even really touched the surface of your game I am sure people who have been playing for nearly 4 years are just crazy when they say things like we need more high level stuff. IN fact why do you put up with such cry babies when you can haves more smarts peoples like me? I mean they have no idea how to be l33t I will tell people how to play how to post and make your forums cool again. IN closing I will start out my venture into your forums with an obvious troll posts calling out the people who kept your game going when you were unknown and make myself feel better. I am sure you will look forward to more players like me who have more insight then the whinning no brain vet communist bad guys. Oh and while your at it change your system to only allow premium the real ddo players since they are the only ones who matter, obviously you dont want paid subscribers money since all they do is whine. Thank you for listening to my expert advice on your game and your player base.

Sincerly

I am expert newbie.

[SquelchHU]

Dear Turbine,

I am new here but I already know that I am better then your Vets. I mean how dare they complain when you change things that affects their builds. And though I have not run a large percent of your quests or even really touched the surface of your game I am sure people who have been playing for nearly 4 years are just crazy when they say things like we need more high level stuff. IN fact why do you put up with such cry babies when you can haves more smarts peoples like me? I mean they have no idea how to be l33t I will tell people how to play how to post and make your forums cool again. IN closing I will start out my venture into your forums with an obvious troll posts calling out the people who kept your game going when you were unknown and make myself feel better. I am sure you will look forward to more players like me who have more insight then the whinning no brain vet communist bad guys. Oh and while your at it change your system to only allow premium the real ddo players since they are the only ones who matter, obviously you dont want paid subscribers money since all they do is whine. Thank you for listening to my expert advice on your game and your player base.

Sincerly

I am expert newbie.

[Terelle]

Dear Turbine,

I am new here but I already know that I am better then your Vets. I mean how dare they complain when you change things that affects their builds. And though I have not run a large percent of your quests or even really touched the surface of your game I am sure people who have been playing for nearly 4 years are just crazy when they say things like we need more high level stuff. IN fact why do you put up with such cry babies when you can haves more smarts peoples like me? I mean they have no idea how to be l33t I will tell people how to play how to post and make your forums cool again. IN closing I will start out my venture into your forums with an obvious troll posts calling out the people who kept your game going when you were unknown and make myself feel better. I am sure you will look forward to more players like me who have more insight then the whinning no brain vet communist bad guys. Oh and while your at it change your system to only allow premium the real ddo players since they are the only ones who matter, obviously you dont want paid subscribers money since all they do is whine. Thank you for listening to my expert advice on your game and your player base.

Sincerly

I am expert newbie.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kalari again.

Virtual +1.

[Mr_Ed7]

.

3.) "Premium / F2P Players are noobs and worthless"
Once again i'm sorry to say this, but i feel like Premium should be higher valued than VIPs. In my 3 months of playing i've contributed more money to Turbine than you guys have in 8-9 months. The purchase content model appeals to be me more as i have a real life outside of the game and I cannot justify paying a monthly subscription when my activity may fluxuate.

You may want to hire a financial adviser to help you think through this strategy.

And your MEGA-WHINE negates 1,000 whines...its true. Wiki it.

[MateCarefor]

Game changes aren't nerfs, no, they're...um....Balance Adjustments!
Yeah, that's the ticket.
How do I know, what do you mean how do I know?
Why,
I'm a D e v e l o p e r!
Yeah, that's the ticket!
And as a developer, I know exactly what is needed around here, and how things work; yeah.
That's what WE developers do, you know,
we don't whine, we tell it the way it is,
but you wouldn't because you're not like me. I'm a dev...OWNER of a company, yeah,
that's the ticket;

Now, let me tell you about what it costs to run an MMO, yeah....

[jon lovitz, snl, season 11]

[Eladiun]

Hi Welcome

IBTL

And all that jazz...