Combat Feedback for Update 5.

[lethargos]

shouldnt those 55s be 80s with gtwf

[TiranBlade]

shouldnt those 55s be 80s with gtwf

That is correct.

The new system functions like this.

Base TWF Proc = 20%
TWF Feat = +20%
ITWF Feat = +20%
GTWF Feat = +20%
Tempest I = +10%
Tempest II = +10%

So it comes out to this.
TWF = 40% to Proc
ITWF = 60% to Proc
Temp I = 70% to Proc
GTWF = 80% to Proc
Temp I w/ GTWF = 90% to Proc
Temp II = 100% to Proc

[shablala]

Let me get this straight. Every time Turbine decides to change the rules or how you put it "state of flux" and it makes my toon less effective that it's my fault for making my toon the best it could be with the rules that were in place at the time? I think you need to give that statement a little more thought.

Can you please clarify to everyone what you mean and to what extent will your toon be "less" effective??

If your toon is currently doing Norm-Elite content, you will still be able to do it just the same.

If your toon is currently geared for Epic, guess what? you will still be able to run Epic and do just fine and not a sane person will decline your toon because you're a twf nerfed, just like a nerfed THF who is now crying that they cant do glancing blows while moving/twitching, wont get declined either.

[shablala]

I'm sorry I dont understand incoherent rambling. Perhaps you could rephrase this so that we may all understand what you are trying to say.

I thought it made perfect sense.

[shablala]

Oh I'm sorry I was looking at it all wrong. It's a "****" good thing to go down on the DPS ladder, the -20% DPS is a "****" good thing, and not being invited to raids now is a "****" good thing. Thank you for correcting me on this I feel so much better, and yes I will get used to getting screwed like this in the future.

Again thank you.

I really dont know or dont care what build you have currently. But I think you are either "lying" about getting declined to raids, or the people you are trying to join are morons. So which is it?

[shablala]

And you will have in the future with your proposed changes

Build				Main-hand	Off-hand
20 Ranger (Tempest 3)		100%		85%
20 Monk (Wind Stance 4)		100%		75%
20 Fighter (Alacrity)		110%		55%
20 Paladin (Zeal)		110%		55%
20 [Other]			100%		55%

So you are effectively nerfing all the twf, and paladins and fighters get the biggest hits... (well, and tempest 1 too)
You really nerf paladins even more cause for paladins smites and sacrifices allways went twice, now they will got half the time...

If this is the clean, easy way to look at which summarized what ddo is trying to do tomorrow then there is only 1 word i can think of is ********. The idea of nerfing TWF which basically changes the concept of a class technics to get rid of the server technical issue which is lag is.....OMG where did they find these people ???/

No idea where you got those numbers. I am looking at the Devs post, quoting:

	Doublestrike	Bonus	Main hand	Off hand
No feats	0	20%	100%		20%
TWF		0	+20%	100%		40%
ITWF		0	+20%	100%		60%
GTWF		0	+20%	100%		80%
Tempest I	0	+10%	100%		90%
Tempest II	0	+10%	100%		100% 
Tempest III	+5%*	0	105%		100%
Wind IV		+10%	0	110%		80%
Zeal		+10%	0	110%		80%
Alacrity	+10%	0	110%		80%

[shablala]

Now you too can spend 2800 turbine points or $50+ to respec your toon to get rid of those 6 useless Ranger levels. LOL

I'M still LMFAO!!

6 useless rangers give you:

- 9 feats in total (the most feats out of any class) 3 + TWF, ITWF, Bow Strength, Rapid shot, Manyshot, diehard
- 10% extra to offhand attack w/tempest I
- 2 favored enemies
- +2 dex (enhancements)
- +2 str +2dam (ram's might)
- no UMD for many useful wands
- 12-24 extra skill points.
- among other things

Yea you're right. For people that like to look at their dps at the end of a long formula on a piece of paper, or on some forum, and now see that they will do 336.64dps instead of 373.75dps on some "pretend" ideal encounter, it will be a useless splash.

For the remaining 90% of the playerbase, it still is the best 6lvl splash. So there is a slight exaggeration in your claim, just like the one about getting 2800TP for $50. But what's new? every complaint about the nerf has been grossly exaggerated.

Honestly you should be LMFAO more at all those screaming NERF!

[shablala]

I nominate this thread to be in the "Hall of Fail" section of the forums for the disgrace that Turbine has created on this game for an update that is so negatively received by its players!

/signed

Not trying to shock you or anything, but I would estimate less than 5% of the playerbase participate on the forum.

[shablala]

Well with Ranger Tempest losing their 10% attack speed they take the biggest hit losing 10% on top of the the 5-10% the rest suffer, so they are useless. With pally's Zeal and the fighters Capstone taking hits that leaves THF Barbs the least effected by this NERF. I'm not even going to mention Rogue's and Monks; may you RIP. The choice is obvious. Turbine should rename the game to DDSO (dungeons and dragons sort of) the THF-Barbarian and Casters Saga.

It is VERY clear my friend that you either do not know much about the update or that you do not know much about the game.

1. Monks are actually going to be very good dps, but now will actually use other stances instead of the cookie cutter windstance.
2. Ranger are easily top 2 straight out twf dps. 100% for both hands + 5% double strike (unmatched by any other class)
3. Rogues assassin and acrobat are getting damage boosts.
4. taking 6ranger lvls is still not a bad choice since it will give you an extra 10% to offhand proc among other things.
5. Sword and shield will do more dps because of doublestrike and dwarvenaxe/bastard sword boosts.
6. AC is getting a boost
7. skills/spells DCs getting boosts.
8.And believe it or not Barbarians are actually getting the worst of the nerf. A barbarian's good portion of dps comes from glancing blows, and that is getting a hefty nerf.

yea lets all still scream NERF!

[Necron7]

Can you please clarify to everyone what you mean and to what extent will your toon be "less" effective??

If your toon is currently doing Norm-Elite content, you will still be able to do it just the same.

If your toon is currently geared for Epic, guess what? you will still be able to run Epic and do just fine and not a sane person will decline your toon because you're a twf nerfed, just like a nerfed THF who is now crying that they cant do glancing blows while moving/twitching, wont get declined either.

A -10%-20% DPS cut (depending on your build) makes TWF toons less effective.

Every comment you made after this one just became pointless.

[IronClan]

A -10%-20% DPS cut (depending on your build) makes TWF toons less effective.

Every comment you made after this one just became pointless.

The best numbers in this thread which have been repeated by many and remain unchallenged (no one debunked them or showed math errors) put the range at 8-14%. -8% for most TWF classes, a small GAIN for some monks (I think due to double strike plus other stances) and -14% for full Tempest III's

It should be noted that Tempest III's loss of their PrE based "extra attack" (which is why they appear to get nerfed the hardest) doesn't actually GO OFF if you move or otherwise break the attack chain... So the high end of the range is actually somewhat theoretical.

So...... Every comment/post you made based on 10-20% just became pointless

Oh and BTW they appearently are lowering mob hit points as well, so the actual number is even lower than 8-14% in practice.

[LegoDudeRyan]

My main is a monk lvl 17 so this seems completely unfair to monks who are use to having like 3 attacks in a second or so, reducing it will make it much harder attacking. Thinks of this, shouldn't all weapons be reduced to make it even because if i monk now hit the same amount of attacks as a person swinging a great axe there is a clear advantage for the great axe person. As for the double strike i dont understand it can someone explain it better please.

[shablala]

A -10%-20% DPS cut (depending on your build) makes TWF toons less effective.

Every comment you made after this one just became pointless.

Honestly, what's pointless is the attempt to use logic with you.

[shablala]

My main is a monk lvl 17 so this seems completely unfair to monks who are use to having like 3 attacks in a second or so, reducing it will make it much harder attacking. Thinks of this, shouldn't all weapons be reduced to make it even because if i monk now hit the same amount of attacks as a person swinging a great axe there is a clear advantage for the great axe person. As for the double strike i dont understand it can someone explain it better please.

Lego, do not bother making sense of the crybabies. Get on your monk, look at the new prestiges introduced, test the enhancement to AC, play around with Stunning Blow, Trip and sunder along with other monk attacks and see how much easier they land. Adjust by using some of the other stances instead of just being perma windstanced. Monks have gotten better, not worse.

[Davikar]

Lego, do not bother making sense of the crybabies. Get on your monk, look at the new prestiges introduced, test the enhancement to AC, play around with Stunning Blow, Trip and sunder along with other monk attacks and see how much easier they land. Adjust by using some of the other stances instead of just being perma windstanced. Monks have gotten better, not worse.

Enhancement to AC? There are no enhancements to AC in this update. :P
Attacks land easier? Why do you keep making things up?
All monks get this update is a big DPS nerf and a prestige enhancement that's we won't be able to take anyways, since we don't have enough AP left to spend on them and their pre-reqs.
All these nerfs just because of server lag? Why don't they fix the servers instead of ruining our game?

[IronClan]

Enhancement to AC? There are no enhancements to AC in this update. :P
Attacks land easier? Why do you keep making things up?
All monks get this update is a big DPS nerf and a prestige enhancement that's we won't be able to take anyways, since we don't have enough AP left to spend on them and their pre-reqs.
All these nerfs just because of server lag? Why don't they fix the servers instead of ruining our game?

/facepalm

Look at least read a FEW pages of this thread so you aren't just repeating the same simplistic erroneous argument that's been mindlessly parroted 500 times and shot down nearly as many.

"all these nerfs" are due to balance issues and they will have a small lag benefit please read the OP.

Monks actually GAIN a little DPS please read back... hell even this very page alludes to this.

Update 5 has some S&B buffing and minor AC changes read the release notes...

[shablala]

Enhancement to AC? There are no enhancements to AC in this update. :P
Attacks land easier? Why do you keep making things up?
All monks get this update is a big DPS nerf and a prestige enhancement that's we won't be able to take anyways, since we don't have enough AP left to spend on them and their pre-reqs.
All these nerfs just because of server lag? Why don't they fix the servers instead of ruining our game?

Ok I am not a developer, so what actually gets rolled today, neither you nor I have any control over. Unless you have some inside info, you have no basis for your claim. I, on the other hand, am basing my claims off of what I read and quoting, not making it up.

Combat Expertise
Combat Expertise no longer breaks on spellcast. Instead, spell point costs are doubled while in the stance. (To maintain the "don't cast while this is on" flavor.) Will also not break due to Monk Finishers.

I dont know about you but that's definitely an enhancement to AC.

Weighted Handwraps
Weighted handwraps now grant their DC bonus to Stunning Blow and Stunning Fist

umm yea, I guess that would qualify as attacks landing easier.

Void: Light: Void Finisher
Activate this finisher to clear away all distractions from your allies, granting a +5 Insight

hmm again, attack landing easier maybe?

doublestrike
It would have the advantage over speed boosts of sometimes proccing on special attacks, and opens up a new itemization and enhancement pathway.

no comment. Let's see how it actually plays out.

Monk Air stances now grant a +2.5%/+5.0%/+7.5%/+10% insight bonus to double strike chance instead of an insight bonus to attack speed. (Enhancement bonus to attack speed remains.)

Just to show how those screaming NERF are grossly exaggerating.

Things like the Shield Bonus and to-hit penalty reductions that Tempest grants when wielding two weapons, or the enhancement bonuses to speed from Wind Stance remain unchanged.

same as above

I won’t hide that these proposed changes do reduce the effectiveness of off-hand attacks, which reduces the two weapon fighting style’s extreme dominance over two handed fighting.

WOW, so it's NOT just because of the FREAKIN lag! so get off the lag bandwagon.

Epic Trash’s saves reduced across the board by 10 to enable you to reliably use DC based special attacks and spells to deal with them, if you’re targeting their weak saves. Note: A more cautious tiered rollout (lowering them by 5 now, then by 10 later) is being considered.

Ok I will let you tackle this one, it's easy. Nerf or Boost?

Epic Trash has a variable penalty to attack rolls that nearly doubles the “potentially viable AC” band. Sort of like rolling a d20 to hit, and then subtracting another d20 from their attack roll.

Another AC enhancement maybe?

Epic monster strength: Low AC characters will still be getting hit with full fledged hits. Higher AC characters will still get grazing hits, but those are much more manageable and don’t bring on-hit effects along with them.

And another regarding AC?


Now is there a chance that some of this wont go live today? sure. But unlike you, at least I have a basis for my claims.

[tday123]

My main is a lvl 20 monk, that Im seriously considering shelving after this update. Nerfing the monk dps is total garbage. Its hard enough for us to compete with other classes because we lack greensteel wraps. Im not sure why the developers dislike monks so much but I am convinced that they do.

[shablala]

My main is a lvl 20 monk, that Im seriously considering shelving after this update. Nerfing the monk dps is total garbage. Its hard enough for us to compete with other classes because we lack greensteel wraps. Im not sure why the developers dislike monks so much but I am convinced that they do.

LOL why do people insist on NOT reading?

You know what? you're right. Go ahead and shelf your pure monk.
Also if you have any other TWF toon, go ahead and shelf it too, since the TWF nerf is across the board.
Might as well shelf any THF toon while you're at it, since you cant do glancing blows anymore while moving/twitching.
I think the best option is to just quit altogether. Just leave DDO to the other 90% of the people who dont have any problem with the changes.

[IronClan]

My main is a lvl 20 monk, that Im seriously considering shelving after this update. Nerfing the monk dps is total garbage. Its hard enough for us to compete with other classes because we lack greensteel wraps. Im not sure why the developers dislike monks so much but I am convinced that they do.

Great idea I can see why you'd be discouraged having gotten a minor boost in DPS to monks and all...