Combat Feedback for Update 5.

[Consumer]

And the top of the list is 600+. As I said. And it hasn't been updated recently, nor does it contain non TWF based characters.

But more to the point...

466.8 … human , ranger 18 / monk 1 / rogue 1, w/ khopeshes , vs. favored , with sneak attack , haste boost +15% (exploiter) < Position is dependent on short term effects. Namely, 2:30 of haste boost.
418.2 … human , ranger 18 / monk 1 / rogue 1 , tempest III , w/ khopeshes , with sneak attack , (exploiter) < What you get without haste boosts.
431.8 … warforged , ranger 20 , tempest III , w/ khopeshes , vs. favored ,

Any of those numbers sound impressive to you? They're alright, but impressive? (by comparison, Monks are 433)

You can take those numbers a whole lot higher if you properly gear those builds for DPS.

[Baahb3]

We're NOT close now unless that barb/fighter is a GIMP.

But rangers are not near the bottom either, they are definately above mid tier, more so against their favored enemies. And with the limited types of monsters in this game you can cover nearly all of the ones used in end game adventures.

The rangers position is established and well respected DPS wise, that position will not change once this is put into place.

[bobbryan2]

You can take those numbers a whole lot higher if you properly gear those builds for DPS.

What?

[grodon9999]

But rangers are not near the bottom either, they are definately above mid tier, more so against their favored enemies. And with the limited types of monsters in this game you can cover nearly all of the ones used in end game adventures.

We're a full BAB class. We are the BOTTOM of full BAB classes. Where should we be? Rogues do more damage.

Regarding FEs, only if you swap feats often can you cover everything. With epic (and hopefully new content) it's not "Dungeons and Devils" anymore

The rangers position is established and well respected DPS wise, that position will not change once this is put into place.

The status quo right now is fine, this fouls it up.

[Valindria]

I'm intrigued by the changes, and will reserve judgement until testing with my own two hands, however.

Talking about the invisible elephant in the room, thief-acrobat quarterstaff rogues.
Acrobat I gives a 10% speed boost....
Acrobat II gives 20% speed boost.....

Currently in the live environment I see NOTHING in terms of a difference acrobat 1 and 2 (from the speed side)
Is this going to stay the same?
Is Acrobat II working as intended?

Sure, I'm not talking about the best of the best elite builds, but this is a fun viable build that kinda skulks in the shadows with a big stick.

Just wondering.

I thought it was 5% and 10% for a total of 15% at Acro II?

[Consumer]

What?

Not only are the numbers old but the gear used is also old and will not contain items such as the redscale docent and +7 str items.

[Baahb3]

We're a full BAB class. We are the BOTTOM of full BAB classes. Where should we be? Rogues do more damage.

Rangers should be the bottom of the full BAB classes for DPS. There is just way too much diversity to claim otherwise. I would argue that Paladins are at the bottom but that is for another day. And as for Rogues doing more damage, not to pour some salt on this but, IMO they should, they don't have nearly the class features or saves that rangers do.

Regarding FEs, only if you swap feats often can you cover everything. With epic (and hopefully new content) it's not "Dungeons and Devils" anymore

The status quo right now is fine, this fouls it up.

For the raids that are being discussed in this thread, Shroud and ToD being the main two, their FEs cannot be ignored.

[Cyr]

For the raids that are being discussed in this thread, Shroud and ToD being the main two, their FEs cannot be ignored.

Uh huh. They have made epic since those came out. Add undead, drow, gnolls, constructs, and dragons to that short list. That's a lot of different enemies there.

[bobbryan2]

Not only are the numbers old but the gear used is also old and will not contain items such as the redscale docent and +7 str items.

It's kinda irrelevant unless those items benefit some class splits more than others.

[bobbryan2]

For the raids that are being discussed in this thread, Shroud and ToD being the main two, their FEs cannot be ignored.

Why are we going to discuss those 2 raids? Ranger DPS and DPS lag are two completely different topics. It's silly to think that rangers should get a larger nerf than everyone else simply because they can do moderate damage in two raids, one of which is almost 2 years old.

[bobbryan2]

Uh huh. They have made epic since those came out. Add undead, drow, gnolls, constructs, and dragons to that short list. That's a lot of different enemies there.

Humans, Orcs, Giant, Reptile, Vermin... and those are just epic red names that come to mind.

[Cyr]

Humans, Orcs, Giant, Reptile, Vermin... and those are just epic red names that come to mind.

Yeah, I was trying to keep my list to the most prevelent/important

[Cyr]

It's kinda irrelevant unless those items benefit some class splits more than others.

Well some do. For example any static increase in str. benefits any split that uses THF over TWF unless the TWF split has a 100% off hand hook chance. Also double strike benefits THF and the same applies to str scaling also. On the flip side red dragon armor adds a on hit boost for both weapons so it benefits TWF more.

[Sir_Chonas]

I've been afk for the past month and have missed this thing in its entirety. . .


Can someone please break this down into how much more difficult it's going to be to true reincarnate a monk 3x, paladin 3x, and fighter 2x?

[bobbryan2]

Well some do. For example any static increase in str. benefits any split that uses THF over TWF unless the TWF split has a 100% off hand hook chance. Also double strike benefits THF and the same applies to str scaling also. On the flip side red dragon armor adds a on hit boost for both weapons so it benefits TWF more.

Yes... but that is a list of entirely TWF characters. So new gear doesn't change the breakdown at all.

[Baahb3]

Uh huh. They have made epic since those came out. Add undead, drow, gnolls, constructs, and dragons to that short list. That's a lot of different enemies there.

I don't know too many rangers that don't have undead or constructs on their FE list.

Undead, Giants, Evil Outsiders, Constructs, Elementals seem to be the most common from what I have read and heard and have on mine.

There are others true but I don't see getting gnolls or drow for just a few quests would be worth it.

[Cyr]

I don't know too many rangers that don't have undead or constructs on their FE list.

Undead, Giants, Evil Outsiders, Constructs, Elementals seem to be the most common from what I have read and heard.

There are others true but I don't see getting gnolls or drow for just a few quests would be worth it.

I think that is the point. FE does not cover everything you fight at end game anymore due to epics adding more variety to the mobs you face.

[Invalid_50]

Here are some other ideas to reduce lag.

Chop up the servers with an axe.

Give all raid bosses 1 hit point.

Remove all classes from the game except for Barbarians Wizards and Clerics.

Remove all multi classing (you can no longer be a Barbarian/Wizard/Cleric)

What? these changes are absurd because they fundamentally change core aspects of your game in favor of a reduction in lag? ok, well maybe then we should focus on reducing lag without changing fundamental aspects of your game!

you guys JUST got finished allowing us to put frost and icy burst on nearly every darn weapon in our inventories...which adds yet another dice roll to our attacks and in theory increases this "DPS lag". Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing?

I mean really...say it out loud and listen to how silly it sounds. We are going to reduce dps lag by reducing dps.

Don't do this; please stop making or suggesting to make fundamental changes to your game with the premise that it is to help with lag (See dungeon alert). If the suggestion is dumb, then it is dumb, regardless of what it is supposed to "fix" (See dungeon alert).

[Baahb3]

Humans, Orcs, Giant, Reptile, Vermin... and those are just epic red names that come to mind.

Sorry but Reptile, vermin, orcs...really? You will have to try harder to convince me that FEs are not a big benifit in this game due to the low variety of creature types.

There are plenty of types but they are rare and not worth selecting as a FE.

[bobbryan2]

Sorry but Reptile, vermin, orcs...really? You will have to try harder to convince me that FEs are not a big benifit in this game due to the low variety of creature types.

There are plenty of types but they are rare and not worth selecting as a FE.

Your argument is 4 updates too old.