Combat Feedback for Update 5.

[Gercho]

Is it 2h twitch that should be fixed or is it unarmed/single weapon/2wf that should be fixed to be twitchable though?

Trying to maximize twitch and have a dynamic moving combat would be more fun than standing still and holding auto attack, would it not?

After all, it's closer to PnP!

And then...when they move mobs attacks to the end of the animation...again...and sync them to intervals that go hand in hand with the attack cycles of the players...twitch like a butterfly, sting like a pre-nerf WoP rapier

i think mobility in combat for strategic purposes its ok, now move in combat to increase damage against an static mob that is not even hiting you back, that should not be encouraged...

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Steady on there - some of us cant get a high speed connection where we live. I'm playing wirelessly too because my router is at the far end of the house, where the phone line comes in. Its 'broadband' - 1.5Mbps. My wireless connection to the router is way faster than that. its not the wireless that affects my gameplay speeds, if anything its the ADSL line. I'm not 'some idiot', thank you very much.

I think the poster is referring to wireless 'broadband' access such as WiMax, not wireless as in 802.11g home systems.

And the change that the dev alluded to about synchronising spells should make a big improvement for these situations. Right now spells such as delayed blast fireball or horrid wilting have to be synced with all clients including those on lower connections. In update 5 this problem won't happen any more.

Garth

[Eladrin]

Still catching up through the thread, but a few comments:

1) I've been convinced that STWF is not a benefit to the game. Instead of opening up new options, its presence instead would close many.
2) The Barbarian Capstone's alacrity bonus is a bug.

[Aspenor]

Is it 2h twitch that should be fixed or is it unarmed/single weapon/2wf that should be fixed to be twitchable though?

Trying to maximize twitch and have a dynamic moving combat would be more fun than standing still and holding auto attack, would it not?

After all, it's closer to PnP!

And then...when they move mobs attacks to the end of the animation...again...and sync them to intervals that go hand in hand with the attack cycles of the players...twitch like a butterfly, sting like a pre-nerf WoP rapier

Actually, twitch is not closer to PnP. I'm not sure who was so misinformed as to say it is.

[Gobbothegreen]

Still catching up through the thread, but a few comments:

1) I've been convinced that STWF is not a benefit to the game. Instead of opening up new options, its presence instead would close many.
2) The Barbarian Capstone's alacrity bonus is a bug.

I like

[Aspenor]

Still catching up through the thread, but a few comments:

1) I've been convinced that STWF is not a benefit to the game. Instead of opening up new options, its presence instead would close many.
2) The Barbarian Capstone's alacrity bonus is a bug.

Thanks, El.

Have you looked into the causes of memory leaks when switching characters? All experimental evidence points to it absolutely being true. This is a major cause of lag, I think. Not everybody logs out of the game every time they switch characters for a raid, like I do.

[Borror0]

Actually, twitch is not closer to PnP. I'm not sure who was so misinformed as to say it is.

I think he means that it is rare in PnP for melee players to perform full-round actions so it's "closer to PnP" to have a mechanism that discourages standing still and attacking.

[Aspenor]

I think the poster is referring to wireless 'broadband' access such as WiMax, not wireless as in 802.11g home systems.

Yes, I was.

[Aspenor]

I think he means that it is rare in PnP for melee players to perform full-round actions so it's "locser to PnP" to have a mechanism that discourages standing still and attacking.

Well, he is wrong. The standard action for a melee in PnP IS a full-round action. It is one of a few things, depending on build:

1. 5 foot step + full attack sequence = full round action
2. full attack + trip = full round action
3. charge + pounce = full round action

It's actually more rare for melee to not perform full round actions. The 5 foot step is extremely common, but you don't do it to increase rate of attack, you do it to move into flank where you can put another +2 into power attack and squeeze out 4 more damage, or possibly move yourself into position for cleave/great cleave.

[Razcar]

Still catching up through the thread, but a few comments:

1) I've been convinced that STWF is not a benefit to the game. Instead of opening up new options, its presence instead would close many.
2) The Barbarian Capstone's alacrity bonus is a bug.

Good news, and thanks for keeping us posted.

[Drfirewater79]

Still catching up through the thread, but a few comments:

1) I've been convinced that STWF is not a benefit to the game. Instead of opening up new options, its presence instead would close many.
2) The Barbarian Capstone's alacrity bonus is a bug.

If STWF isnt going to be put into the game ... then fighters with gtwf need to have 100% off hand ...

it doesnt make any sense if a kensai especially cannot dual weild at the same rate as a ranger who has lower bab ....

fighters when specialized should (based on the number of feats and abilities) be a SPECIALIST in there melee field ...

its the only reason to be a fighter ..

if rangers have faster attack speed (tempest) and have better off hand attacks you eliminate the usefulness of dual wielding fighters ...

With Capstone fighters should have 100/100% dual wielding if they have all the feats available ...

or at least make it part of the kensai line.

same goes for monks ... we already have the lowest dps in the game and now in order to hit at a regular rate we have to be in wind stance ... well personally i dont even use wind stance anymore once you hit lvl 20 the difference isnt much and you dont gain ki as fast so as a healing monk wind stance is almost never used ....

so now you force wind stance to hit often enough to build ki anyway .. so in fire stance i wont generate ki as fast and in wind stance i dont generate enough ki to buff and attack ...

so .... now we have to rely on the PRE's and windstance to even be useful.

thanks ... doesn't seem like this is gonna be ready anytime soon ....

is update 5 coming out this year .... cause it seems like you guys haven't worked this stuff out to make any sense on the player end at all.

[Aspenor]

ranger who has lower bab ....

Rangers have the same BAB as a fighter.

[Borror0]

it doesnt make any sense if a kensai especially cannot dual weild at the same rate as a ranger who has lower bab ....

It makes sense. So much sense, in fact, that it's already that way. Eladrin's proposed change won't change that, nor should it.

Rangers have the same BAB as a fighter.

I read that to mean he is upset that Tempest I makes a ranger attack faster than a fighter who is several levels higher. I'm not sure why he takes issue with that now, when it's been that way since January 30th 2008, the day Tempest I was added to the game.

[The_Phenx]

If STWF isnt going to be put into the game ... then fighters with gtwf need to have 100% off hand ...

it doesnt make any sense if a kensai especially cannot dual weild at the same rate as a ranger who has lower bab ....

fighters when specialized should (based on the number of feats and abilities) be a SPECIALIST in there melee field ...

its the only reason to be a fighter ..

if rangers have faster attack speed (tempest) and have better off hand attacks you eliminate the usefulness of dual wielding fighters ...

With Capstone fighters should have 100/100% dual wielding if they have all the feats available ...

or at least make it part of the kensai line.

+1

A kensai III Fighter should not be a lesser mele combatant than a ranger... perhaps only with his chosen weapon... but the thoughts still stand.

[Gobbothegreen]

If STWF isnt going to be put into the game ... then fighters with gtwf need to have 100% off hand ...

it doesnt make any sense if a kensai especially cannot dual weild at the same rate as a ranger who has lower bab ....

fighters when specialized should (based on the number of feats and abilities) be a SPECIALIST in there melee field ...

its the only reason to be a fighter ..

if rangers have faster attack speed (tempest) and have better off hand attacks you eliminate the usefulness of dual wielding fighters ...

With Capstone fighters should have 100/100% dual wielding if they have all the feats available ...

or at least make it part of the kensai line.

Why exactly? Fighters are already the hardest hitting melee in the game and they already have less offhand hits than rangers. Why change that blaance and make rangers even crappier than they will already become (they still loose way to much from this nerf compared to any other class).

[Borror0]

A kensai III Fighter should not be a lesser mele combatant than a ranger

Eladrin's proposed change, now without STWF, nerfs rangers more than fighters.

EDIT: By that I mean that rangers get nerfed while fighters don't nerfed, other than the global -10% DPS every TWF build lost.

[DethTrip]

There needs to be a good reason to spend a bunch of feats on twf, spending points to have high dex, and to build a second weapon and making twf do LESS damage than thf def does not give a person a good reason to build one. You devs better test this and make it so there IS a benefit to twf or a lot of people are going to be extremely ****ed. It will NOT make the game more enjoyable for a large number of people in this game.

I agree with a lot of other people's suggestions. Don't nerf twf and call it a change to make less dps lag. If you really want to lessen lag, get better equipment and change how dice are rolled. keep the combat system as close to the same as it is as possible. Monks are already tough enough to get good dps out of. Now you will make them an almost obsolete class. I do not agree with this proposal from what I have read.

[The_Phenx]

Wind Stance not being optimal for every fighting style isn't bad. We're considering doing something with Water Stance to make it a preferable staff stance, though Sun Stance's strength boost could also be appealing.

Any more details on this Eladrin?

Of course I am always curious about the fate of acrobats, as is well documented...

[Shade]

2) The Barbarian Capstone's alacrity bonus is a bug.

...
You acknowledge this bug..

Yet the fact that the capstone is bugged in another major way - it never increased glancing blow damage.. You never comment on, and leave out.

Fix the broken aspects making it worse before worrying about the broken aspects making it better.

[Keridan]

Still catching up through the thread, but a few comments:

1) I've been convinced that STWF is not a benefit to the game. Instead of opening up new options, its presence instead would close many.
2) The Barbarian Capstone's alacrity bonus is a bug.

I like this post for the simple fact that it proves you are listening to the feedback I personally don't have a directly vested interest in the actual changes implemented (I play healers and arcanes), but I fear when devs seem to be deaf to points that counter their own. Glad to see you are taking debate still.