Combat Feedback for Update 5.

[Galacticus]

Game balance = good

Balance? You're kidding right? How is this game balanced in any way. It stopped being balanced when mobs got 1 million HPs.

[smatt]

Again what server are you on and name the toons? Cause if you're just like us then you wouldn't want the nerf so much

I want just because people like you don't

[IronClan]

By your reasoning, any arcane that takes a Bard splash to get zero ASF in armor has a valid reason to complain when that gets fixed as well.
They built their toon upon the current rules.

Do people actually do that? Whats the best armor a Bard can wear 8 ish AC? (don't know the AC of a DT breastplate)... Armored bracers +8 nerf a level of bard? Or pretty nearly do? I looked this over with Twilight Mith chain early on while considering a mage build sorry Wizard... AD&D still stuck on the brain... Anyway the ,long and short of it was that a Monk splash + bracers with the Wiz dumping Cha and Str was a much better option.

[krud]

This still puts monks at an even greater DPS disadvantage vs. other TWF classes then they are now. With Fighters/Rangers etc. having 20% more offhand attacks through Superior TWF, monks will be left behind in the dps charts.


Think about it... currently unarmed ALLREADY attacks more times per minute then regular TWF, yet it STILL does less dps (due to better weapon options, crit multipliers, crit ranges of weapons). This change will actually give monks LESS attacks per minute then a similar fighter/ranger etc. and just make things worse.


Ranger (assume 100 attacks)
105 main hand (100 + 5 double hits)
100 off-hand
= 205 total

Monk LIVE (assume 110 attacks do to unarmed speed)
110 main hand
110 off hand
=210 total (despite this higher number their dps is still the lowest!)

Monk Update 5 (assume 110 attacks)
121 main hand (110 + 11 double hits)
80 off-hand
= 201 total (DPS nerf to lowest meele dps class)


Monks are allready the most DPS deprived meele class, and require the most farming (2 ToD rings) to even reach their true potential. Please evaluate this accordingly. Perhaps give unarmed a BASE 40% chance of off-hand attacks (without feats) so it can hit 100% with 3 feats.

No need to assume attacks/min. You can find the current values here
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=201535

and other useful combat links here
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=173568

[Swedishchef]

hmmmm ... sorry, but I've been grinding up my AC on my main, and I've finally got it up to the point where S&B is a completely viable combat tactic, except (for the time being) in most Epics (and that's still just a work in progress btw) -- albeit not one that I would use 100% of the time.

YES it's slower, but basically : they die, you don't (well, not unless someone foolishly hits the Red DA button or some other accident occurs).

YES, it's a completely marginal tactic, depending on several months worth of grindety-grinding, but the ONLY game system -related reason why it's so marginal is the sheer rarity/grindiness of the loot that you need for it.

So what you are saying is that you don´t know anything about dps?
Or that your ac tank is a one trick monkey?
Or that you focus so much on holding a **** board in your off hand that i never occured to you to use some feats to be a better dps tank vs harry, portals or other places where ac/intimi isn´t essential?

Have fun with your ac toon, good that you`r playing (as u stated) with all the powergamers on keeper-eu.

Now back to the dps nerf and suggested attempt to aid in the dps-lagg issue.

[ChadeLanart]

Your argument has no merit. The only contract you have with Turbine is if you're a VIP, and even then that contract is one of payment and can be canceled by you at any time.
We do not own our characters. Turbine does.
We do not own our loot. Turbine does.
As all of these things are owned by them, they will do as they see fit with their things in their pursuit to better the game.

If you rent a car from your neighbor, and he decides to downgrade it )or trade it in or paint it or whatever), you have little to say on the matter. You can choose to rent the new and/or different car, or you can choose to stop renting.

We will have to agree to disagree I think they do have an obligation to thier clients. And while there is no legal contractural obligation there is a moral one . They should respect and value the time and effort others have put into building thier characters

[Galacticus]

Are you going to ask me to turn my rep on as well, so you can see whether or not I'm worth listening to?
I don't see what bearing my server or my toons have on this conversation.

It most definitely does, because if you're one of those people that just post for the sake of it and don't even spend an ounce of time ingame then your opinion is irrelevant. You say you have TWFs then prove it and post their names. I have TWFs and ALL my friends that I play with which are the ELITE of Argo have TWFs and all of them are against this nerf...

Why aren't you?

Answer: you don't play and you just sit in front of a computer posting...that's what you've been here for the last 2 days instead of playing the game.

[smatt]

So what you are saying is that you don´t know anything about dps?
Or that your ac tank is a one trick monkey?
Or that you focus so much on holding a **** board in your off hand that i never occured to you to use some feats to be a better dps tank vs harry, portals or other places where ac/intimi isn´t essential?

Have fun with your ac toon, good that you`r playing (as u stated) with all the powergamers on keeper-eu.

Now back to the dps nerf and suggested attempt to aid in the dps-lagg issue.

LOL, so a DPS is all it's about monkey is calling an AC tank a one trick pony? LOLOLOLOL Nice...

[Calebro]

Answer: you don't play and you just sit in front of a computer posting...that's what you've been here for the last 2 days instead of playing the game.

Actually it's because I've been stuck in my office for the past week, but thanks.

[SquelchHU]

Are you going to ask me to turn my rep on as well, so you can see whether or not I'm worth listening to?
I don't see what bearing my server or my toons have on this conversation.

Level 3 permadeather, and some level 1s that have gone through the amazing challenge of... wait for it... the Grotto!

To be fair though, the Monk 2/Cleric 1 probably is a TWFer.

[Calebro]

Yeah, that's it. Because myDDO never bugs when you reroll later.
Or when you do it on purpose to avoid the myDDO snobs.

[Swedishchef]

LOL, so a DPS is all it's about monkey is calling an AC tank a one trick pony? LOLOLOLOL Nice...

All i am saying is that instead of only focusing on AC and intimi (most intimis are fighters) one should also consider the fact that as DPS is usefull aswell as AC, therefor they should (if they are not feat starved) recognize that hide behind their shield isn´t the only thing a good AC tank does.

P.S it is all about the dps in this thread D.S

[Galacticus]

No one is really talking about low level TWF toons or multi-class toons. I've seen posts call this nerf as a balancing of the game. Balancing or weighing toward a pure class style play?

[Consumer]

it Most Definitely Does, Because If You're One Of Those People That Just Post For The Sake Of It And Don't Even Spend An Ounce Of Time Ingame Then Your Opinion Is Irrelevant. You Say You Have Twfs Then Prove It And Post Their Names. I Have Twfs And All My Friends That I Play With Which Are The Elite Of Argo Have Twfs And All Of Them Are Against This Nerf...

Why Aren't You?

Answer: You Don't Play And You Just Sit In Front Of A Computer Posting...that's What You've Been Here For The Last 2 Days Instead Of Playing The Game.

I Am Elitttteeeee!!!!!!!!1111!!!1

[Visty]

No one is really talking about low level TWF toons or multi-class toons. I've seen posts call this nerf as a balancing of the game. Balancing or weighing toward a pure class style play?

provide some numbers as your statement has no base

chars can still multiclass

[Galacticus]

I've been stuck in my office for the past week...

It's Saturday? And were you working at midnight last night?

The original question still stands...

Give us your toons names and server so we can MyDDO you

[Galacticus]

provide some numbers as your statement has no base

chars can still multiclass

I'm asking a question not making a statement

[Delacroix21]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eladrin

---

Edit:
Thanks for the massive amount of feedback all.

We're currently thinking of adjusting the numbers to:


Code:
Doublestrike Bonus Main hand Off hand
No feats 0 20% 100% 20%
TWF 0 +20% 100% 40%
ITWF 0 +20% 100% 60%
GTWF 0 +20% 100% 80%
STWF 0 +20% 100% 100%
Tempest I 0 +10% 100% 90%
Tempest II 0 +10% 100% 100%
Tempest III +5%* 0 105% 100%
Wind IV +10% 0 110% 80%
Zeal +10% 0 110% 80%
Alacrity +10% 0 110% 80%* Only when wielding two weapons.

This set switches Wind Stance and Tempest III to doublestrike bonuses, increases the benefits of the TWF feat chain, and adds an additional feat for high BAB characters.

All of the bottom rows assume that the person has GTWF, except for the STWF row.


This still puts monks at an even greater DPS disadvantage vs. other TWF classes then they are now. With Fighters/Rangers etc. having 20% more offhand attacks through Superior TWF, monks will be left behind in the dps charts.


Think about it... currently unarmed ALLREADY attacks more times per minute then regular TWF, yet it STILL does less dps (due to better weapon options, crit multipliers, crit ranges of weapons). This change will actually give monks LESS attacks per minute then a similar fighter/ranger etc. and just make things worse.

Ranger (assume 100 attacks)
105 main hand (100 + 5 double hits)
100 off-hand
= 205 total

Monk LIVE (assume 110 attacks do to unarmed speed)
110 main hand
110 off hand
=210 total (despite this higher number their dps is still the lowest!)

Monk Update 5 (assume 110 attacks)
121 main hand (110 + 11 double hits)
80 off-hand
= 201 total (DPS nerf to lowest meele dps class)


Monks are allready the most DPS deprived meele class, and require the most farming (2 ToD rings) to even reach their true potential. Please evaluate this accordingly. Perhaps give unarmed a BASE 40% chance of off-hand attacks (without feats) so it can hit 100% with 3 feats.


Reposted due to being buried to deep. This IS a concern as now monks will have LESS attacks then other TWF meele, despite ALLREADY having LESS DPS.

[Natashaelle]

So what you are saying is that you don´t know anything about dps?
Or that your ac tank is a one trick monkey?
Or that you focus so much on holding a **** board in your off hand that i never occured to you to use some feats to be a better dps tank vs harry, portals or other places where ac/intimi isn´t essential?

Have fun with your ac toon, good that you`r playing (as u stated) with all the powergamers on keeper-eu.

Now back to the dps nerf and suggested attempt to aid in the dps-lagg issue.

cripes, so you decided to have another dig ...

Lovely, just lovely.

Glad you're over at US btw, and hope you're over there for the duration.

I have no reason whatsoever to either explain or defend my build to you, so I won't ; it's just not worth the effort, as I have learned during several completely identical cookie-cutter arguments from those of your ilk.

Toodle pip.

[Calebro]

It's Saturday? And were you working at midnight last night?

I manage a bar, and the owner is on vacation, so I'm working about 16 hours a day, everyday, until he gets back.