Combat Feedback for Update 5.

[Stamp3de]

Im about a bit confused, so a THF pally has a chance to double-strike Smite with these changes?

[grodon9999]

I'd like to take the post to reiterate, I can live with the lag, don't change anything.

[Gurbatonden_Puggh]

I don't see why TWF SHOULD outDPS THF. TWF has the benefit of higher effect proc rate, that's where they should shine. Also, I'd even go and say a THF requires much more work than any TWF due to how weak they are compared to TWF. To be on par with a TWF using Greensteel, one must have epic sos. To be competitive against someone using dual chaosblade, one must create a new weapon in the game.

Like Eladrin said in his 1st post, both should be balanced out, making one style better than the other only because of the character, not the game mechanics.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO INVEST MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE INTO A TWF TOON!!!!!! ....for the 20th time...hope you understood that...

[Daehawk]

I'll be sure to forward this to SIG, as his idea of casting "remove disease" is taking things to a shooting range

Heh, well sometimes there are even things that you can't remove. Like you need a Remove Curse and a Remove Disease...then it's better to just put it down.

This is something we've discussed but is a more complicated beast to tackle. It doesn't mean it might not happen one day in the same sense that we didn't always have character copy on the preview world. For the time being the Lamannia and live Store account information is still separate.

Yeah I can see how it is needing to be separate for all the free points that are given out for it. Because then people could use them for both live or Lamannia which wouldn't be a good thing. Maybe a similar function like the character copy could be set up.
Where it does something like this:
Step 1) Reads current adventure packs, account options owned, and account type.
Set up a mysql query to read adventure packs owned(check=true), account options owned(check=true), account type(check=true) for $Account_ID.
Step 2) Transfers them over to Lamannia Account Information.
Update $Account_ID with adventure packs owned(check=true), account options owned(check=true), account type(check=true) for $Account_ID.
Step 3) Verification that those two sections are the same.
Step 4) Show account options and adventure packs owned status transfered over.
Mainly people just want their Account Options(Character slots, races, classes) and adventure packs over there. The rest isn't really needed. And I know in the database it has things checked for what you do have. As with the new DDO Store part it can show you what you do have.
Something similar to that perhaps.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO INVEST MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE INTO A TWF TOON!!!!!! ....for the 20th time...hope you understood that...

Very true. Ever since the shroud was added I think long and hard before I roll a TWF. Its a heck of a lot more work grinding out two weapons.

[tihocan]

I'm hitting submit now because I'm deathly afraid of someone stepping on my power switch.

That would be someone with a TWF build on live

[Yaga_Nub]

Im about a bit confused, so a THF pally has a chance to double-strike Smite with these changes?

if they are using Zeal, yes.

[Visty]

BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO INVEST MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE INTO A TWF TOON!!!!!! ....for the 20th time...hope you understood that...

then lets play the pnp card again:
in pnp twf is only useful for rogues as twf just does more damage

should be like that here too

[Daehawk]

Im about a bit confused, so a THF pally has a chance to double-strike Smite with these changes?

Yup, with Zeal up you can do Exalted Smite IV Epic Sword of Shadows and get 2 Exalted Smites. Nice huh? =P

[Galacticus]

Lastly, this better come with greensteel deconstruction or you're going to have a mass riot. It costs twice as much to equip a TWF character as it does THF, and it's for good reason. If we're nerfing TWF this much, at least give people a method to recoup some of their investments. Mark my words on that riot bit.

And AOK is just the guild to start it! The cease fire will be lifted

[Memnir]

I'll have to wait to see how these changes actually play. Because sweeping changes like this will either work better then expected, or be completely disastrous.

I do give the Devs kudos for having the cojones to take this on...



And even more kudos for giving us an informed heads-up way in advance. I very much appreciate the info - even if I'm not pleased with what the info contained.

[Thrudh]

Im about a bit confused, so a THF pally has a chance to double-strike Smite with these changes?

If using Zeal, you'll have a 10% chance to double smite with a THF weapon

[SquelchHU]

then lets play the pnp card again:
in pnp twf is only useful for rogues as twf just does more damage

should be like that here too

And this is why using pnp as source material is a bad idea. It's also why we don't get nice things.

[Samadhi]

First perspective thoughts; subject to later reconsideration:

1) Removing glancing blows while moving while THFing seems like a far more extreme nerf than many of the other things listed. Not sure why this was included but this seems a bit much. Mobs in this game move A LOT and we have to move if we want to hit them. Except for (some) raid boss fights this change is essentially removing glancing blows from the game; and any value in THF feat chain.

2) I completely understand that speed increases, technologically, make a lot of sense as to a significant factor into lag. I am little disappointed that it wasn't found "cost effective" to just upgrade in a way to make it work though. But assuming the math makes sense on your backend there...

3) Overall, I think the method of dealing with the alacrity increases (for zeal, fighter capstone, etc) is acceptable.

4) There is one thing I dislike about the changes specifically to TWF, in the collision analysis seemingly being dropped entirely from the offhand. I typically (and realistically) will fight with my main hand hitting 1 mob and my left hand hitting a 2nd mob to the left. It seems like this will be completely eradicated with these changes. This is both unrealistic and kind of lame.

5) My biggest concern is that a significant amount of content will need to be rebalanced to address these reductions to overall DPS. I can get behind ANY CHANGE that will make the lag in this game as playable as it was a year ago; but the amount of changes has the potential for significant variations that have me advocating caution as much as possible.


Personally, I would like to see some changes to alacrity rolled out first, and other changes held back as much as possible, until we could experience whether we saw significant reductions in lag with only a partial remapping.

[street1920]

I have a lvl 20 monk epic equipped,
if the developer nerf the TWF i will stop to play DDO and i return on WoW... i prefer the lag,and not you that nerf TWF, you are destroing a class.... is against the rules of d&d... nerf the twf and you will lose a monthly payer VIP.

[Kelthaz]

Nerfing is always bad whatever the reason, valid or not.

The more I play this game the more I feel that its not Dungeons and Dragons based
on 3.5 rules, something that should be high priority since DD rules been playtested for
decades.

The servers lag even without fighting so I don't see "Optimizing" the twf code to change
the lag solving issue, it might solve at certain events but the suggested nerf will have
the following affects.

- Nerf a huge amount of characters who will want a full reinc if the nerf is done.
- Some people have for years gathered items for these builds.
- Lots of community advice/work about character builds will become obsolete.
- Moves game even further out from DD 3.5 rules.
- Lots of players play solo where apparently this proc lag is not evident. Atleast
I dont lag of weapons proccing but I do lag on running from place to place, and
rubberbanding quite often.

I suggest. Invest in new top of the line servers ( you will anyway need them if your gonna
upgrade graphics and support DX11 ) hire people to optimize the code in the client.
Consider that there are mmorpgs with much better graphics with as much or even more special
affects and procs than DDO. The client also need fixing and optimizing ( I get several times
a week bluescreen playing DDO, something I don't get with any other game/program ), changing
game balance is not the way to fix the problem.

Sure I don't know all the technical aspects and coding but this game mechanic nerf just sounds
like a cheap way of fixing so you don't have to invest money in modern hardware or fix the bugs.

[Sarnind]

I have a lvl 20 monk epic equipped,
if the developer nerf the TWF i will stop to play DDO and i return on WoW... i prefer the lag,and not you that nerf TWF, you are destroing a class.... is against the rules of d&d... nerf the twf and you will lose a monthly payer VIP.

i agree

[Calebro]

I'd like to take the post to reiterate, I can live with the lag, don't change anything.

No

then lets play the pnp card again:
in pnp twf is only useful for rogues as twf just does more damage

should be like that here too

How exactly is TWFing only useful to Rogues in PnP? I've played many TWFing melees in PnP, but they certainly weren't all rogues.

Nerfing is always bad whatever the reason, valid or not.

Completely disagree. Some nerfs are needed. Others hepl solve other problems, as this ne is attempting to do.
We'll just see if it works.

[jkm]

hopefully one of the things that they are looking at is the fact that lag seems to be tied to the character with the worst machine/latency in the group. my lag is random in the shroud and ToD UNLESS someone is saying they are lagging. at that point, the whole thing seems to just start/stop.

[Eladiun]

BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO INVEST MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE INTO A TWF TOON!!!!!! ....for the 20th time...hope you understood that...

I agree with Eladrin here... we have other benefits as TWF besides the higher DPS.

Increased Customization Slots
Different per Hand Effects

This argument of investment ignores all the other associate benefits of TWF