Combat Feedback for Update 5.

[Visty]

That matters when you can e.g. vorpal or stat damage to kill opponents. That is not possible in high-level play, or not possible at all anymore, so that advantage is null and void.

80% more lightning strikes is null and void?

vorpal and stat damage arent the only effects which will trigger more often then on a thf

[Visty]

So the lagg issues we still have on the server is fixed, since when? I had the usual 11:00-13:00 lagg on thelanis today and did experiance some rubberbanding in house p while lvling my midbe. DA sure fixed lagg

So this means: we are not changing green steel?

If so, instal new server-hardware and don´t go ahead with this change untill we have tested the new hadrware.

DA did fix lag
it fixed the pathing lag

what you experiance is either dps lag, server lag, your-machine-sucks lag or one of the other srouces of lag, but NOT pathing lag...DA removed that

[Swedishchef]

DA did fix lag
it fixed the pathing lag

what you experiance is either dps lag, server lag, your-machine-sucks lag or one of the other srouces of lag, but NOT pathing lag...DA removed that

Well not server lagg so let´s fix that, if this do fix it then i am a happy monkey.

As for the others reasons: dps-lagg while duoing midlvl stuff in house p = no, rigg is fine so is my optical line.

[Razcar]

tempest I gives 10% offhand proc

Come on Vist, you're a smart guy. How the hell can you be defending this? You know that Tempest 1 gave 10% bonus to all attacks. The nerfed Tempest 1 gives 10% bonus to off hand attacks only. Off hand attacks get half the strength bonus. So the bonus goes from a +10% to DPS, to maybe 3-4% bonus to overall DPS.

I'm sad to say I lost respect for you by your defense of these illogical, sweeping and unfair game changes.

[Visty]

Come on Vist, you're a smart guy. How the hell can you be defending this? You know that Tempest 1 gave 10% bonus to all attacks. The nerfed Tempest 1 gives 10% bonus to off hand attacks only. Off hand attacks get half the strength bonus. So the bonus goes from a +10% to DPS, to maybe 3-4% bonus to overall DPS.

I'm sad to say I lost respect for you by your defense of these illogical, sweeping and unfair game changes.

am i defending them?
maybe
but the post you quoted was just coreccting the post which was quoted in the one you quoted (what a sentance)
he said tempest I has no speed boost anymore which is wrong. 10% more offhand attacks IS a speed boost jjust in a differant way

also these changes arent illogical or unfair once you understand them

it happens to balance twf with thf
sure, they could have boosted thf too but that would just be a powercreep spiral and wouldnt end well

they did the right move with this

[Natashaelle]

Visty i know you are not an idiot, this is exactly what he said, in the very first sentence, where the hell did you contrive that translation from?

Originally Posted by Eladrin
"One of the major issues that we’ve been working on is the dps lag problem in high level content (especially raid content)"

How am i misinterpreting that?

It has been well established in this thread that lowering the proc rate of the offhand attack from 100% down to whatever is not for the purpose of lag decrease, but for the purpose of lowering the numbers of offhand attacks for any toons except for 2WF specialists.

The same mechanic is being proposed to try and reduce lag AND to reduce the dominance of 2WF in this game.

[Razcar]

80% more lightning strikes is null and void?

vorpal and stat damage arent the only effects which will trigger more often then on a thf

As Hutoth said above, I meant overall DPS, over time.

But anyway, you think it is all right then that we ditch all our crafted weapons and craft lightening II weapons instead, if we didn't have it before? Please send me the ings Vist, my character names are in my sig.

[Visty]

As Hutoth said above, I meant overall DPS, over time.

But anyway, you think it is all right then that we ditch all our crafted weapons and craft lightening II weapons instead, if we didn't have it before? Please send me the ings Vist, my character names are in my sig.

sorry, wrong server

and lightning strike was just an example
twf also gets 80% more holy, holy burst, shocking burst, and al lthe other effects

[Borror0]

So the lagg issues we still have on the server is fixed, since when? I had the usual 11:00-13:00 lagg on thelanis today and did experiance some rubberbanding in house p while lvling my midbe. DA sure fixed lagg

There are many sources of lag. Simply because you address one does not mean you addressed them all.

If so, instal new server-hardware and don´t go ahead with this change untill we have tested the new hadrware.

What a novel idea! I have no idea why I didn't think of that!

Think about it. If new hardware was a realistic approach, don't you think they would have done it?

/snip

I'm pretty sure Razcar was sarcastic.

[Visty]

I'm pretty sure Razcar was sarcastic.

but he had no sarcasm smily (this one )

[Razcar]

but he had no sarcasm smily (this one )

Go out and have a jeagerschnitzel and a nice cold weissbier instead mate if you are bored. Because you are just playing devil's advocate and being antagonistic for the hell of it.
Hmm now I got hungry.

[Razcar]

it happens to balance twf with thf

And they shouldn't be balanced, because they do not cost the same. If you pay 10 000 € for your car you shouldn't expect the same quality and performance as if you pay 20 000 €. (Unless you buy a Skoda )

[Visty]

And they shouldn't be balanced, because they do not cost the same. If you pay 10 000 € for your car you shouldn't expect the same quality and performance as if you pay 20 000 €. (Unless you buy a Skoda )

if they would hold true to pnp then thf would be superior to twf already even with the 3 feat cost twf has

so id say you can be lucky that they threw you* a bone

*not you as you but you as general twflers which complain here

[Boromirs]

if they would hold true to pnp then thf would be superior to twf already even with the 3 feat cost twf has

so id say you can be lucky that they threw you* a bone

*not you as you but you as general twflers which complain here

That doesn't matter, what matters is that the current system of TWF being superior has already LONG AGO been implemented and many many people have bought/built gear and invested time leveling/RL money etc. to get their characters where they are. To SUDDENLY change the rules of the game on them is not only unfair, but downright sinister.

[Visty]

That doesn't matter, what matters is that the current system of TWF being superior has already LONG AGO been implemented and many many people have bought/built gear and invested time leveling/RL money etc. to get their characters where they are. To SUDDENLY change the rules of the game on them is not only unfair, but downright sinister.

for how a long time did ppl build batman builds with fullplate and evasion again just to have turbine change evasion?

ppl cried back then, ppl cry now

its the same thing

2 months after its through everyone adopted do it and we all will be fine again

[Yazzman]

Well, obviously the only solution is to go back to basics and introduce turn-based combat. Yay for attacks of opportunity!

[Swedishchef]

There are many sources of lag. Simply because you address one does not mean you addressed them all.

What a novel idea! I have no idea why I didn't think of that!

Think about it. If new hardware was a realistic approach, don't you think they would have done it?

Well not server lagg so let´s fix that, if this do fix it then i am a happy monkey.

I haven´t seen any feedback on questioning the server-hardware from anyone with the knowlage, so yes untill i see something along thoose lines i will suggest that, and YES i know there are many sources of lagg m8e *sigh* (including bad hardware).

As i said in my posts only time will tell how this will affect the combat, if they implement this, untill then we can only calculate and speculate with the info released.

[Razcar]

if they would hold true to pnp then thf would be superior to twf already even with the 3 feat cost twf has

so id say you can be lucky that they threw you* a bone

*not you as you but you as general twflers which complain here

Don't come dragging with the "D&D clause". Not much, rules-wise, from D&D matter here any more. This is Spart..., sorry, DDO.

The gist of it is this:

estimated damage output over time for the two styles should be extremely close to each other if we go this route.

Do you, Vist, agree that TWF costs more in grinding time and reources than THF, yes or no?
Do you agree that TWF costs more in stat allocation, yes or no?
Do you agree that TWF costs more in feats, yes or no?
Do you agree that TWF also has a built in to-hit disadvantage?

Then why on earth should the "damage output... be extremely close to each other"?
Riddle me that.

[Boromirs]

for how a long time did ppl build batman builds with fullplate and evasion again just to have turbine change evasion?

ppl cried back then, ppl cry now

its the same thing

2 months after its through everyone adopted do it and we all will be fine again

I really don't think thats true this time around. There is a difference altering one single feat and COMPLETELY gutting the old combat system. This affects everyone across the board that ever uses a weapon. Hence, the 100 pages of crying thats pouring out.

Again, Turbine can do this right but personally if they are thinking about implementing it as is they need to give everyone who is TWF...

1.) FREE one time deconstruction on all their green steel equipment, possible buyback of 2 items from players at full base value. (although I've collected a dozen or more ultra valuable TWF weapons).

2.) FREE complete feat respec.

3.) FREE stat changes.

Now, the Devs believe that their changes are fair and balanced, if so, they have nothing to worry about the above three FREE items ever being used. However, if this is not the case then the player has the option to switch out. Overall, this is the MOST FAIREST option available for people currently.

I mean come on?! You are totally altering your game's combat system (THE central part of a MMO) in mid-life and you expect people to NOT want a character overhaul? Turbine needs to think and be smart, such a drastic change needs drastic compensation.

I hope Eladrin will address this issue after the memorial day weekend is up.

[Boromirs]

Don't come dragging with the "D&D clause". Not much, rules-wise, from D&D matter here any more. This is Spart..., sorry, DDO.

The gist of it is this:

Do you, Vist, agree that TWF costs more in grinding time and reources than THF, yes or no?
Do you agree that TWF costs more in stat allocation, yes or no?
Do you agree that TWF costs more in feats, yes or no?
Do you agree that TWF also has a built in to-hit disadvantage?

Then why on earth should the "damage output... be extremely close to each other"?
Riddle me that.

I can answer that.

A.) Someone on the dev team has a real liking for THF, it's obvious, I mean look at the monstrosity eSoS.

B.) They see this as killing 2 birds with 1 stone. They realize that yes TWF does cause lag and they can get rid of it by nerfing it (plus the above).

C.) Eladrin or some of the key devs don't really play the game and see this as more a job (check in and check out) and thus is removed from any other considerations...like the extreme investment requirements of TWF relative to THF. (although I seriously doubt this, but hey you never know when dealing with these big companies).