Combat Feedback for Update 5.

[Natashaelle]

I just don't want to feel like I have to have only a twohanded option for melee.

The amount whereby 2WF specialists will be affected is being somewhat exaggerated by some people in this thread, as far as I can see.

For example, the fact that Fighters will be able to compete with Rangers in the 2WF area is more of a (needed) boost for Fighters than a Rangers nerf. There is no reason at all why Fighters should not be able to attain top-notch 2WF capabilities.

Those who will be most affected are people with a Ranger 6 splash with an otherwise non-mêlée focused character class, which is actually a LOT of people -- so that it's understandable that so many people are overreacting.

[vVAnjilaVv]

What about the madstone boots 20% attack-speed boost? will that be changed as well?



No one wants to lose attacks are you serious?
Most people I play with they dont want to feel like they are attacking in slow motion.

Every melee loves the haste spell and abilities that stack with haste help to increase attack speed/DPS. Taking these away will make DDO melee combat slow-paced more boring and last longer!

I'm not sure it is going to be anything that drastic......I mean we saw the debacle of how much they slowed attack speed when they brought in grazing hits....that didn't last long at all...neither will this if it's too extreme....at least I hope so.

[Natashaelle]

The consensus is that my Assassin III rogue will lose mutliple vorpals and about 20-25% of her offhand hits, which in my case means fewer radiance blinding hits and fewer auto-crits, which sucks my DPS down even further. For what benefit, again? Unless this is incorrect, I'll take the lag, thanks. I'm a casual p2p player, so I don't know all the stats, calculations, etc. What I'll know is that if I'm not as useful in a party, I'll never be allowed in an epic raid again.

I could TR, but then my two multi-shard GS rapiers would be useless, along with half my gear (rogue-centric stuff like assassin and mechanic set). If I'm going to have to start over, it might as well be with another MMO that hasn't pushed my toon out the door yet. Again, only saying that if this is truly the nerf it sounds like. Someone post some good news? Or maybe something that shows a little more information on the difference for rogues besides lumping us into "other".

In the longer run, that toon will still be viable even in a worst-case scenario, if you can manage to have enough patience to wait for a level 24 cap increase, which should provide you with access to the STWF, if needed.

More short term, people playing Rogues should campaign and demand clarifications that the whole character class won't get itself nerfed for mêlée.

[Tabun]

Again I sit here reading this and its the same ending..... The Devs dont care about the grind we went through to get here its already $$$$ in the bank it is the new $$ they are after. I cant wait to give up all my melees and play only clerics and casters ............................ this is a nerf and yeah dont get too attached to your ESOS you know thats going to get nerfed, they want you to use vorpals and **** to minimize dps lag. epic fail

[GottDDO]

as it sits now, non of those classes would be able to get it due to BAB restrictions,

Why? Because you can't get the best TWF feats? Give me a break... Those classes shouldn't be TWF masters.

[Tabun]

The amount whereby 2WF specialists will be affected is being somewhat exaggerated by some people in this thread, as far as I can see.

For example, the fact that Fighters will be able to compete with Rangers in the 2WF area is more of a (needed) boost for Fighters than a Rangers nerf. There is no reason at all why Fighters should not be able to attain top-notch 2WF capabilities.

Those who will be most affected are people with a Ranger 6 splash with an otherwise non-mêlée focused character class, which is actually a LOT of people -- so that it's understandable that so many people are overreacting.

wrong kotc gtwf pally is going to be totally gimped.... a very soild DPS build now

[GottDDO]

The amount whereby 2WF specialists will be affected is being somewhat exaggerated by some people in this thread, as far as I can see.

For example, the fact that Fighters will be able to compete with Rangers in the 2WF area is more of a (needed) boost for Fighters than a Rangers nerf. There is no reason at all why Fighters should not be able to attain top-notch 2WF capabilities.

Those who will be most affected are people with a Ranger 6 splash with an otherwise non-mêlée focused character class, which is actually a LOT of people -- so that it's understandable that so many people are overreacting.

"You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours."

Yes, it's a lot of people that are getting ****ed off about this, because everyone and their brother has TWF. It's sickening, actually.

[~WickedWendigo]

well there goes my idea for big stick, tanking 8 lvls of monk for the windstance II, Im actually half tempted to leave again and go play star wars.

[Soleran]

Why? Because you can't get the best TWF feats? Give me a break... Those classes shouldn't be TWF masters.

Why wouldn't a centered monk not be a twf master as well, heck especially with handwraps nothing is impeding their attacks.

[grodon9999]

For example, the fact that Fighters will be able to compete with Rangers in the 2WF area is more of a (needed) boost for Fighters than a Rangers nerf. There is no reason at all why Fighters should not be able to attain top-notch 2WF capabilities.

Fighters do more damage than Rangers in TWF. What are you talking about?

[GottDDO]

Why wouldn't a centered monk not be a twf master as well, heck especially with handwraps nothing is impeding their attacks.

Monks aren't a full BAB class. The have a lot of bonuses and utility. They should never have equality in melee to Fighters and Barbarians, especially Barbarians.

[Natashaelle]

Based on this answer...my response is remove the barb class from the game...thus eliminating the DPS lag problem....

It takes no longer to process a 500 point crit than a 85 point one, but Harry will unhappier with the 500 damage than the 85

[Soleran]

Monks aren't a full BAB class. The have a lot of bonuses and utility. They should never have equality in melee to Fighters and Barbarians, especially Barbarians.

I fail to see how you justify that position simply by stating x and y deserve more when that's already the case today before the changes as far as dps is concerned.

Also used the example of being centered with flurry of blows not with every weapon.

[duncangolden]

Alright, some thoughts here (over 70-some pages now, yikes. First chance I got to get at this thread long enough to post in it (due to work)).
Number one. The physics check piggybacking makes sense to me. All good there (in theory, heh)

Number two. With my two main characters being a mainly dex based rogue/monk acro AC monkey(using staffs and twf both), and an unarmed finesse monk (light side), I am not liking the direction the twf "adjustment" is taking us. Like many others, the main draws for me to DDO are its fast pace (in combat), and the D&D tie.

Number three. Agro control is messed up enough as it is, currently, and now we are looking at adding Double strike. This is going to really play havoc with intimitanks (but I guess, from recent design directions, the only valuable avoidance is DR). It is also going to play havoc with at least one raid. "Prepping" pillars in VoN 6 is going to become a really chancy endeavour if this goes through.

In all, thanks for soliciting feedback regarding this. My opinion is ONLY make the physics detection change, without adding Double Strike and without "adjusting" TWF.

Just my two cents

[toughguyjoe]

Monks aren't a full BAB class. The have a lot of bonuses and utility. They should never have equality in melee to Fighters and Barbarians, especially Barbarians.

No one is asking for "Equality" What we're asking for is for some people to step away from PNP in some aspects, as it does directly relate to Video Game mechanics.

In PNP a Monk gets Flurry of blows, and potentially makes many many attacks per round. What better way to simulate that than to allow a Monk to gain Superior Two Weapon Fighting?

[Tabun]

Again you bring up epics, so I assume you mean ESoS.
Again I tell you that you KNOW it needs a nerf and therefore shouldn't be considered.
And if you'd have read the thread, you'd know from the multiple times that I've said it, the majority of my melee toons are TWFers.

why would an item you HAVE to grind to get and not get one lucky pull to aquire need a nerf? please tell me ??!!!!!!!!!!

[Tabun]

Alright, some thoughts here (over 70-some pages now, yikes. First chance I got to get at this thread long enough to post in it (due to work)).
Number one. The physics check piggybacking makes sense to me. All good there (in theory, heh)

Number two. With my two main characters being a mainly dex based rogue/monk acro AC monkey(using staffs and twf both), and an unarmed finesse monk (light side), I am not liking the direction the twf "adjustment" is taking us. Like many others, the main draws for me to DDO are its fast pace (in combat), and the D&D tie.

Number three. Agro control is messed up enough as it is, currently, and now we are looking at adding Double strike. This is going to really play havoc with intimitanks (but I guess, from recent design directions, the only valuable avoidance is DR). It is also going to play havoc with at least one raid. "Prepping" pillars in VoN 6 is going to become a really chancy endeavour if this goes through.

In all, thanks for soliciting feedback regarding this. My opinion is ONLY make the physics detection change, without adding Double Strike and without "adjusting" TWF.

Just my two cents

the players they are trying to make these adjustments for do not run raids or very many

[Tabun]

well there goes my idea for big stick, tanking 8 lvls of monk for the windstance II, Im actually half tempted to leave again and go play star wars.

you are not alone

[Angelus_dead]

well there goes my idea for big stick, tanking 8 lvls of monk for the windstance II, Im actually half tempted to leave again and go play star wars.

Uh, the new changes will make quarterstaff a relatively better choice for someone with monk levels than it is currently. Windstance will provide a doublestrike bonus that benefits the staff fully, but only gives a partial boost to handwraps or kama.

Maybe you're assuming that since you didn't see Windstance II on the list then Windstance II will have a zero bonus. That just wouldn't make sense.

[Merlocke]

I cant wait to give up all my melees and play only clerics and casters

Yep only one toon to focus TRing on now i guess, rest will be shroud/epic shard drones.

....and yeah dont get too attached to your ESOS you know thats going to get nerfed, they want you to use vorpals and **** to minimize dps lag. epic fail

LMAO