Combat Feedback for Update 5.

[GottDDO]

I'm not going to get into this again, but barring ESoS (which NEEDS a nerf and thus shouldn't be counted in this scenario), and twitching (which was never intended and is also getting a nerf), TWF is superior to THF in most cases.

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Calebro again.

[ariel7]

I dunno, but if I understand it correctly it is my opinion that if you nerf twf you can't really brag about the combat mechanic. I had been playing dragon age: origins and granted its not online, but it was really nice to never experience lag. What if some animations were cut, or be able to not show the numbers floating?

I think if players feel that characters they've built, leveled, and had a ton of fun with are not going to be effective, they will get angry. In general, this is a very good game, but I propose an internal marketing/pr person, to be on the staff and discuss ideas solely from a player's perspective. Maybe have a group of people, who have played a really long time and have dialogue with them as well.

I just don't want to feel like I have to have only a twohanded option for melee.

[Borror0]

believe was borrow told me a while back people like numbers and wish to see the hits and plenty of them

I'm not sure who this "borrow" guy is but that sound like something I would say. Maybe you're confusing him and I?

[GottDDO]

The reason I use this fighting syle is: I do out dps toons...Just not all of them all of the time which is what is being suggested...

And leveling up toons i use maelstrom ANS carneflex (even on my scorcs)!!! they r that good.....and quite frankley it has me reevaluating the effectiveness of the twf build....

The Bytcher~

Nice try.

[GottDDO]

Regarding your earl;ier question:
Again, Seph has answered a question posed to me before I could, and probably better than I could.



Is it?
I had to explain it to IMPAQT a month or two ago. I can find the link if you like.

Who?

[Cyr]

No, not really. Infraction points are handed out by moderators for breaking the forum rules. One of those rules are that you are not allowed to remark on the spelling abilities of others. And yes, before you ask, English is my second language.

Hold on, what rule does commenting upon bad spelling break? I would like to know if this is true or not.

[Angelus_dead]

Hold on, what rule does commenting upon bad spelling break? I would like to know if this is true or not.

The rule as written says you cannot "flame about spelling or grammar". However, the moderators here interpret it to include any comment relating to the correctness of any aspect of written language.

[ariel7]

Hold on, what rule does commenting upon bad spelling break? I would like to know if this is true or not.

There was in the toc some stuff about making fun of someones language ability or typos. I don't really hope he gets points, just slows down on the insults before he really gets lit up. I mean, you gotta know every dev is checking this thread.

[Luis_Velderve]

Is this problem a hardware problem?

Can a decrease in connection drop the lag (read here instead free to play a 30 day free to try?

What will happen if you nerf twf and then your base increases 500%? What will you nerf later?

Can you reduce mobs and foes calculations and leave players alone?

if you eliminate trade and advice will this help?

What if you reduce attack speed overall, players and foes?

What if you limit raids to lets say 9 or 10 players?

What if you implement single weapon stlye feats giving choices to new viable builds? less twf toons less lag


But I got to ask , Is this really a hardware problem? Did your base increased in a unforeseen way that your hardware improvement budget fell short?

[WirelessJoe]

The consensus is that my Assassin III rogue will lose mutliple vorpals and about 20-25% of her offhand hits, which in my case means fewer radiance blinding hits and fewer auto-crits, which sucks my DPS down even further. For what benefit, again? Unless this is incorrect, I'll take the lag, thanks. I'm a casual p2p player, so I don't know all the stats, calculations, etc. What I'll know is that if I'm not as useful in a party, I'll never be allowed in an epic raid again.

I could TR, but then my two multi-shard GS rapiers would be useless, along with half my gear (rogue-centric stuff like assassin and mechanic set). If I'm going to have to start over, it might as well be with another MMO that hasn't pushed my toon out the door yet. Again, only saying that if this is truly the nerf it sounds like. Someone post some good news? Or maybe something that shows a little more information on the difference for rogues besides lumping us into "other".

[Borror0]

Hold on, what rule does commenting upon bad spelling break? I would like to know if this is true or not.

http://forums.ddo.com/announcement.php?f=211&a=4

1. While participating in the Forums, you must respect the rights of others to participate in the community. To this end you may not harass, defraud, threaten or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other members or Turbine staff. This includes, but is not limited to:

• Flaming another user for their spelling or grammar

[The_Mighty_Cube]

I mean, you gotta know every dev is checking this thread.

Indeed.

[Grendyll]

So how about using this type of system :

Instead of “double-attack” chance, use a more general “multi-attack” chance. If the multi-attack chance is greater than 100%, make the attack, then subtract 100 from the chance and repeat the check. Continue until a check fails or the chance falls below 0. Track the main-hand multi-attack chance separate from the off-hand multi-attack chance. The main hand would start at 100%, the off-hand would start at 25% (or 20% or whatever based on the available feats/enhancements).

Swing speed would be solely determined by BAB, convert all haste effects to “multi-attack” effects (applied to both main hand and off hand).

The combat attack action would proceed as :

1)perform collision check to see what target is struck by an attack swing.
2)check main hand multi-attack chance (if less than 100%) and resolve first main hand attack (if the check succeeds)
2b)subtract 100 from main hand multi-attack chance and check again, if successful resolve that attack
2c)continue until a check fails or percentage chance falls below 0
3)check off hand multi-attack chance (if less than 100%) and resolve first off hand attack (if the check succeeds)
3b)subtract 100 from off hand multi-attack chance and check again, if successful resolve that attack
3c)continue until a check fails or percentage chance falls below 0

For 2 Handed Fighting it would start the same, but at step 3 would be different
3)check to see how many glancing blows could potentially process (randomly decided up to 3 depending on feats)
4)check range to nearest N targets where N is the number determined above, keep only targets that are possibly within range
5)for each target in range perform the collision check to see if a swing can connect physically (no barriers or other objects blocking, whatever the physics stuff needs to test)
6)for each target that passes the physics check, resolve a glancing blow attack

Only a single collision test would be needed for each attack sequence from a 2WF. I don’t see any way around 2HF requiring several checks for glancing blows.

But please, if you implement double-attack or multi-attack or whatever, make sure that most haste effects apply equally to both hands or else every buff added will have possibly unintended side-effects on the balance between 2WF and 2HF.

Even if balance is achieved some day, let’s not get to the situation where adding “double-attack” spells/abilities/gear will be inherently more beneficial to 2HF than to 2WF.

A “slow” effect in this system could be represented as a –50% to main-hand and off-hand multi-attack chance (to a minimum of 50 probably for main hand and 10 for off-hand, one-half their starting values).

[ariel7]

The consensus is that my Assassin III rogue will lose mutliple vorpals and about 20-25% of her offhand hits, which in my case means fewer radiance blinding hits and fewer auto-crits, which sucks my DPS down even further. For what benefit, again? Unless this is incorrect, I'll take the lag, thanks. I'm a casual p2p player, so I don't know all the stats, calculations, etc. What I'll know is that if I'm not as useful in a party, I'll never be allowed in an epic raid again.

I could TR, but then my two multi-shard GS rapiers would be useless, along with half my gear (rogue-centric stuff like assassin and mechanic set). If I'm going to have to start over, it might as well be with another MMO that hasn't pushed my toon out the door yet. Again, only saying that if this is truly the nerf it sounds like. Someone post some good news? Or maybe something that shows a little more information on the difference for rogues besides lumping us into "other".

Yes, I'm interested in that as well. I am curious as to what my characters end results will be with this change. I don't want to have to make thf only to be effective.

[Borror0]

The consensus is that my Assassin III rogue will lose mutliple vorpals and about 20-25% of her offhand hits, which in my case means fewer radiance blinding hits and fewer auto-crits, which sucks my DPS down even further. [...] I'll never be allowed in an epic raid again.

Well, on the bright side, the vorpal ability didn't work in Epic already so that part is unchanged...

[Grendyll]

Something else I like the idea of using (I think some other folks have mentioned this already) :

IN RAID ZONES ONLY, use average results for the added effect rolls on weapon swings, e.g. Holy = 7, Acid = 4, Shocking Burst = 4 plus 6, 11, or 17 on criticals (depending upon crit multiplier). I think rounding up is the most fair since it is possible that this would eliminate the chance to overcome elemental resistances in certain cases (like if a creature had fire resistance 5, a flaming weapon should actually be able to do 1 point of damage 1/6 of the time, but if averages are used, it will never do damage).

This assumes that pulls from the RNG are computationally expensive. I am not sure if analysis has revealed that this is a significant load on the system (greatly depends on the RNG implementation I guess).

[westudi]

Hmm. So maybe I shouldn't bother getting tier 3 on my dual weapons just yet.

[WirelessJoe]

Well, on the bright side, the vorpal ability didn't work in Epic already so that part is unchanged...

Understood, and that's made it hard enough to build a character that could be useful in Epic runs. A possible reduction in DPS just adds to the problem. Even I wouldn't take me into an epic raid.

[Brother_Solar]

Hmm. So maybe I shouldn't bother getting tier 3 on my dual weapons just yet.

Most TWF classes/builds (rogue falls into this category too) would be losing 10% DPS. I don't see that as reason enough to throw in the towel, but your opinion may differ.

[Erekose]

Ok, I can't find anything in this thread that answers my questions, so could someone to be frank and give me the straight up news on my current melee's. It looks like most of the testing is looking at Tempest, Pali's and Monks.

I wan't to know the effect of the proposed changes will be on my 4 melee's.

1. FB WF 18 Barbarian / 2 Rogue GTWF (HvY Picks/Khopesh) Base DEX: 17

2. FB Dorf 18 Barbarian / 2 Rogue GTWF (DA) Base DEX: 17

3. Kensai WF 18 Fighter / 2 Rogue GTWF (Khopesh) Base DEX: 17

4. Assassin Halfling 20 Rogue GTWF (Rapier) Base DEX: Can't remember, maxed out DEX.

Thank you and I appreciate your time if you answer my questions.

Erek