Combat Feedback for Update 5.

[Philam]

I got it. I just felt it wasn't necessary.

"Lighten up Francis!"

Ph

[Chai]

currently its twf > thf (twitching) > thf >> s&b
with the change it will be [thf (twitching) >]* twf ~ thf >> s&b

(*as twitching gets a small nerf too it shouldnt be there actually, but i put it there to show the point)

with the changes thf and twf will be alot better balanced then it is currently. thats also why glancing blows while mocing got removed

its not a nerf, its a overall game balance

They came right out and said it was going to take away from an entire style of fighting, which is a nerf.

We dont know what the order will be because we havent seen any of the changes or tested them yet. For all we know, they tossed those numbers up onto the board to generate a first round of feedback, and thats all. There might be 25 different changes made to this per day until its released.

I doubt THF will beat out TWF by sny significant factor where it will be deemed vastly superior by anyone other than absolutist min maxers who automatically gravitate to the strongest thing possible and begin stamping builds out cookie cutter style, all the while pointing at everyone else and calling them gimps for not doing the same.

Meanwhile those of us who build on concept are patiently sitting back and waiting for it all to happen, and while providing instinctive feedback, reserving real judgement until we see actual results.

[Angelus_dead]

Melee classes should be much better at melee than TWF and FvS.

They already are a lot better. What part of that do you not understand?

I'm not sure why you think they should be entitled to the feat just because a fighter are ranger would have access.

Obviously I do not think that: I do not even think there should be any STWF feat at all. To use "It's a feat" to justify STWF being hard to get is begging the question.

Clerics and FvS are primarily casters. They really can be built to melee well but if we push them closer and closer to melee those top tier feats

As has been explained to you many times, that's not the present situation. I am not asking for TWF Clerics to be made better: I want to avoid making them worse.

The upcoming changes are not pushing anyone that fighters (rangers too, simply because they were built with TWF in mind) have access too it's more like a proxy nerf (your term) to fighters

Simply untrue. To be a proxy nerf it would have to worsen fighters compared to alternative classes. But fighters make out better than most TWF characters, because spending a feat on STWF is easier for them.

When I read your comments I see, "I want to have the feat because it exists in my chain so I should have it because it exists and other people can get it."

How about instead reading what it says?

Clerics and FvS's (and several other classes) thinking they need to add that one more feat just because it's there in order to be viable does seem silly to me.

And yet you won't explain why you think that TWF Clerics, FVS, Bards, Rogues, and Monks need to have their damage nerfed more than Fighters, Rangers, or THF characters are.

Do you honestly think that the current melee DPS of a TWF Cleric, FVS, Bard, or Rogue is overpowered somehow?

[Calebro]

I have now slept on this nerf and tried to look at it from another perspective.

The problem is: there isn't. THIS IS A NERF plain and simple

As even Eladrin admitted to in the OP, YES, this is a nerf. But it's a good one. People are crying that their builds should now be scrapped, and that just isn't the case.
The difference will barely be noticeable in most cases after the numbers were changed.

The Bytcher~

Yes, you certainly are.

[Chai]

In any case I can't imagine how Effed up this game would be if they balanced everything around players who are to the right of a decimal place in the overall percentage of server population.

Now if I could only package this up, activate the flux capacitor and go back in time to deliver this to every single game I played that got destroyed by doing just what you said, balancing the entire game around a number of players who are to the right of a decimal place in the overall percentage of server population.

Or I could just take all their plutonium and hand them a bunch of nuclear pin ball machine parts in return.

[Tarnoc]

You know what, if you weren't one of the ones earlier in the thread making false comments about other peoples connections/computers and specifically F2P players causing everyone in the party to lag (or agreeing with someone who was) then I apologize for misunderstanding your post... If you were then I stand by my comment. I'm not going to hit advanced search and look through what you've posted in this thread just to check and it's certainly possible I'm mistaking you for someone else.

do you know wen the lag came about??i doubt it with your 2010 join date so ill tell you...

it came around shortly after we all started crafting GS like crazy....

before said time wede have some lag on older servers....but nothing like the lag is today and ussually a maintence which werent weekly then fixed those issues well

and it has nothing to do with population on servers...it has to do with greensteel procs period.....and i wont disagree that a geomitry check on both weapons is a large calculation and will fix a ton of lag also

[Calebro]

Easy button this, easy button that. The game is too easy. Make the game more challenging!
Lag is horrible! Fix lag in the raids!

<devs offer a way to reduce lag, balance some melee, and make the game slightly more challenging>

OH NO! DON'T NERF MY TOON!!!!11!!!eleventy!!

People, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[uhgungawa]

People, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

But what would be the point of having cake if you can't eat it?

[Erekose]

The examples used are all based on pure builds.
"The Fighter Alacrity capstone, and the Paladin spell Zeal would be changed to a +10% bonuses to double strike. "
What about 18/2 splash builds?

The ONLY class to benefit from the proposed change is a Ranger. No surprises here.

I suggest that the proposed changes will polarize the choices players are left to make concerning the optimization of DPS.

Meaning, in order to get the MOST DPS on a melee, players will naturally change classes to ranger builds.

It is far cheaper, time-wise, to true re-incarnate a GTWF Barbarian as a STWF ranger than farm ingredients AGAIN to equip a melee's with GTHF. All classes who cannot access STWF will be the one's affected by the proposed changes.

In effect, your suggested DPS-lag solution will polarize the game into Ranger only DPS builds and marginalize ALL other classes as sub standard DPS builds. Will this fix lag? I am sincerely doubtful. Your track record has been an epic failure, therefore one can only be pessimistic that such a change will accomplish nothing but hedge players to play rangers and in doing so, continue your lag problem.

This wouldn't be a problem if you had not given mobs a huge amount of hit points and granting mobs blanket immunities to arcane spell effects.

So now we see the developers chasing their own tails as a result of pushing the pendulum towards non-arcane, pro-melee game play.

The suggested changes, kicks sand in the faces of ALL players who have spent irreplaceable time and energy farming shroud ingredients in order to equip Barbarians, Fighters, Monks and Rogues with two weapon fighting shroud gear.

Tread very carefully Turbine. The problems YOU have created may come back to bite you again if your subscribers leave en-masse. Perhaps it would be better to invest time and money into your combat engine and upgrade it in order to meet the environment you have created, rather than punish the dedicated players for your oversight.

Concerned.

Juslim

[Calebro]

But what would be the point of having cake if you can't eat it?

I always wondered what the hell that actually meant, to be honest....

[Coldin]

But what would be the point of having cake if you can't eat it?

The cake is a lie anyway.

[Natashaelle]

hmmmm ... just realised, from responding to another thread -- if the STWF *does* come with a BAB prereq, then some people with a Monk 1 splash are going to find themselves getting nerfed as well ; because Monk 1 = +0 BAB, making it *that* much harder for them to reach any BAB prereq at level 18.

[Oreg]

agree

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Oh good, we need ANOTHER thread instead of including discussion in the thread that the devs are actually reading.

[techknowannie]

No way!! Haven't you read that the sky is fallling?? It's all over the forums and the forums are on the internet so it must be true...DoOoOoOoOoOoOoOom!!!

and we can blame Mockduck for the twf nerf

Turbine could nerf TWF, that'd fix it. If no one wants to take two weapon fighting, that'd solve the problem. Half the swing rate might do it.

it's shame that nerf bats are immune to rust monsters

[Visty]

ibtl

[Redcoil]

They want their cake and the ability to eat others cake, duh. Have it, AND eat it...then save some for later.

Btw why is everyone overlooking the THF buff that's relatively significant? THF pallies, doublesmite gaxes or min2's or LS's. Possible, that's well over 2k with a single smite. No love? (No I dont play pallies...would love to see a screenie of that happening, though, when it can.)

[DoctorWhofan]

Oh good, we need ANOTHER thread instead of including discussion in the thread that the devs are actually reading.

what he said.

[Kepli_Moonshadow]

what he said.

you forgot something, dearheart.

*sighs*

[Angelus_dead]

We already see the demand for warchanters over a simple +1/+2 bonus. BAB also only helps classes not capped in the BAB unless the full BAB classes can exceed the current limits. To me all that looks like is a way to increase the the number of attacks for other classes and not for fighters/barbarians/paladins/rangers.

That does not make sense. You evidently do not know what BAB does in this game.

Giving Warchanters a Song of BAB would be a minor bonus that other players hardly ever care about, because those characters with meaningful melee weapons probably already have a way to get all the attack bonus they need. A BAB Buff song would be mostly a flavor addition.