Combat Feedback for Update 5.

[Sarezar]

I don't know if this was posted before or if it helps but I get the same lag when I solo and there are many monsters hitting me.

If I go in Reaver's Fate solo and have 30-40 elementals casting ball of lightning on me, with sent packet at 6kbps and without attacking anything, I get identical lag with the one I experience in Shroud with a full party. Same with other monsters attacking me.

I'm sure balls of lightning and monster attacks have physicial chesks too, but they are definitely not 5-6 monks and 2WF with multiple weapon effects. Also the probelm can be caused from the monsters too, not just from the player's side.

It looks like it's something else that is causing it. Or "and" something else...

[dopamine]

I don't know if this was posted before or if it helps but I get the same lag when I solo and there are many monsters hitting me.

If I go in Reaver's Fate solo and have 30-40 elementals casting ball of lightning on me, with sent packet at 6kbps and without attacking anything, I get identical lag with the one I experience in Shroud with a full party. Same with other monsters attacking me.

I'm sure balls of lightning and monster attacks have physicial chesks too, but they are definitely not 5-6 monks and 2WF with multiple weapon effects. Also the probelm can be caused from the monsters too, not just from the player's side.

It looks like it's something else that is causing it. Or "and" something else...

pretty obvious the "lag" is just a smokescreen, maybe to increase DDOstore sales

[Sarezar]

pretty obvious the "lag" is just a smokescreen, maybe to increase DDOstore sales

The "lag" is definitely there. And I am sure they want to solve it. I am worried that they don't know what is causing it though, as others have said, too. It's a very obvious and distinct kind of lag that started after a very obvious and distinct time. Unless it's just a case of too many players started playing a game that was never designed for these numbers and now they have to go through every bit of code and concept to see which one(s) has the biggest impact.

[Dvarwen]

The easy solution would be to remove the dice rolls, confirmations and misses from the combat log. Only have the damage being dealt in the log.

[Sarezar]

The easy solution would be to remove the dice rolls, confirmations and misses from the combat log. Only have the damage being dealt in the log.

It's not that. We've done tons of quests and raids where everyone had disabled everything from the combat log. It did not change a thing.

[shablala]

Changes are being introduced in an attempt to mitigate some of the unarmed/TWF DPS lag experienced in high level (raid) content, as well as an attempt to bring TWF more in line with THF.

These changes reduce the effectiveness of off-hand attacks, which reduces the TWF style’s extreme dominance over THF. Estimated damage output over time for the two styles should be extremely close to each other.

Now for the love of God, can you stop talking about the "lag" issue? obviously it is not the ONLY reason for this change. In fact I am very confident it is NOT even the main reason.

People saying "It's on Lamannia so that's it, no changes will be made"...BS! Lamannia is not the end to any nerf or update. You guys are going crazy over things that surely will not gimp your ability to finish ANY quest/raid on ANY difficulty including Epic. In the meantime you are ignoring the other things that were being discussed. There WILL be more updates, there will be more balancing, if a certain nerf will play out to be totally bad, it WILL be reverted (as it was said). There will be future updates that will ride ontop of the current ones which hopefully in the end will make for a better experience and maybe even make more sense when it all fits together. You cant possibly expect one update to solve anything and everything.

Some of you are acting like this is the first MMO you've ever played. Most of you, especially those that are playing around on Lamannia are not being objective whatsoever. All you did was compared a copy of your toon with the changes vs your current toon and screaming bloody murder nerf because you're not seeing the same numbers flying above.

[smatt]

I don't know if this was posted before or if it helps but I get the same lag when I solo and there are many monsters hitting me.

If I go in Reaver's Fate solo and have 30-40 elementals casting ball of lightning on me, with sent packet at 6kbps and without attacking anything, I get identical lag with the one I experience in Shroud with a full party. Same with other monsters attacking me.

I'm sure balls of lightning and monster attacks have physicial chesks too, but they are definitely not 5-6 monks and 2WF with multiple weapon effects. Also the probelm can be caused from the monsters too, not just from the player's side.

It looks like it's something else that is causing it. Or "and" something else...

That's more likely related to the amount of active AI entities in one area....

As has been said many times there are MANY causes for lag... Some of which are obvious and many of which aren't...

[AbsynthMinded]

Over the years Turbine has put in game development in several areas which ultimately were a bad idea. 12 man Raids, Green Steel Crafting, top level 18-20 content which is nothing like any content before..

The company choose to go certain directions knowing, more or less, the stress they were inviting to the hardware and bandwidth. They could have done it better, no one much argues that point. Working with things as they are now Turbine/DEVs continue to follow certain precepts that by historical evidence do not solve anything. At best they are just buying more time before they have to lobotomize something else in effort to save that which is already fracking things up.

My big peeve is Green Steel and I feel the whole system should be shut down and the items created become very very fragile while not being able to be attuned to prevent permanent damage. There after the content which drives the need for 'Custom Raid Equipment' should be reworked to require just 6 man parties using commonly available or lootable equipment. Or simply stated, stop the concept of Raiding in a D&D world where such would have been impossible to accomplish over a tabletop. 6 players is hard enough, 12 is insane. Even if you had each player operating 2 characters each, the logistics are just mind twisting.

[Krado]

My big peeve is Green Steel and I feel the whole system should be shut down and the items created become very very fragile while not being able to be attuned to prevent permanent damage.

Not to relaunch a potentially pointless debate, but wouldn't that aggravate a lot of people who pretty much decked their toon head to toe in greensteel ?

There after the content which drives the need for 'Custom Raid Equipment' should be reworked to require just 6 man parties using commonly available or lootable equipment.

12 mans contnent is quite fun in my opinion and I must say I would miss them very much if they were to go away. Agreed, it require management from the raid leader, but it does open lots of possibility (for example the Twilight Forge multiple parts puzzle). Making only 6 man contnent will make them a bit more LFG friendly, but as of now on Khyber, 12 mans are pugged on a regular basis. Of course, I cannot talk for the other servers on that one.

As for the lag part, I don't really see how that would reduce the load on the servers, as instead of 1 group of 12 (12 ppl and 1 instance to manage) you will get 2 groups (12 ppl and 2 instance to manage). I'm not Math genius, but wouldn't that cause more problems ?

At any rate, I will still give DDO a fair chance. Maybe all the changes will create something better, who know ?

Lets try it out when the update is live

[Sarezar]

That's more likely related to the amount of active AI entities in one area....

As has been said many times there are MANY causes for lag... Some of which are obvious and many of which aren't...

That is true, but each type of lag is different. The one I mentioned in my post is identical to the one you get in shroud etc. It's not like the lag we used to get when someone was chased by 50+ monsters.

[Dim_Mak]

90-100MPH

As an experienced motorbike racing rider i can tell you that 15MPH is a huge difference.
For amateurs maybe not, but for those who are on the higher level it's a heaven and earth.

[Necron7]

I know I said I wouldn't be posting or replying anymore, but this is just tooo funny.

Lots of people have said that Turbine is only doing this TWF nerf to bleed it's customers for more money to respec their toons. Then there are those players who believed Turbine when they said it was about lag then balance, and it is to those people I say HERE IS YOUR SIGN!

BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND!
This Weekend Only!
+5 Lesser & +5 Greater Reincarnation

Now you too can spend 2800 turbine points or $50+ to respec your toon to get rid of those 6 useless Ranger levels. LOL

I'M still LMFAO!!

[krud]

Now you too can spend 2800 turbine points or $50+ to respec your toon to get rid of those 6 useless Ranger levels. LOL

I'M still LMFAO!!

Only for the people who needlessly panic over a few percentage points. If someone is gullible enough to spend real money to 'fix' something that ain't broke, that's not turbine's fault.

[Necron7]

Only for the people who needlessly panic over a few percentage points. If someone is gullible enough to spend real money to 'fix' something that ain't broke, that's not turbine's fault.

Whats a few percentage points? 10%, 15%, 20%? To you 10-20% might not be a big deal, but to others had this TWF nerf been inplace before they created their TWF toon they might not have created it, and to them Turbine just "broke" their toon.

Lets say that you have worked hard and finally built your dream car. Your Acura NSX (level20). Now your working and saving to add your dual exhaust, dual turbo and intake (TWF GS). Only to be told you are now going to fast, so we are swapping your NSX for a Honda Acord (Nerf) to reduce your speed (Lag) and make everyone feel the same (balance). Now how would you feel about all that time, money, and hardwork you just waisted?

[AbsynthMinded]

Lets try it out when the update is live

There is little choice for it now..

[sacredtheory]

I seriously have nothing constructive to add to this thread other than I can't believe it's still going on, and there are still people upset that their make-believe, virtual characters are so nerfed that they're now broken. To those of you that believe that, I say get a different hobby (I mean that sincerely, not being rude). Try homebrewing. It's fun! I make the beer I drink, try it, you'll love it.

[knightgf]

I nominate this thread to be in the "Hall of Fail" section of the forums for the disgrace that Turbine has created on this game for an update that is so negatively received by its players!

/signed

[krud]

Whats a few percentage points? 10%, 15%, 20%? To you 10-20% might not be a big deal, but to others had this TWF nerf been inplace before they created their TWF toon they might not have created it, and to them Turbine just "broke" their toon.

Lets say that you have worked hard and finally built your dream car. Your Acura NSX (level20). Now your working and saving to add your dual exhaust, dual turbo and intake (TWF GS). Only to be told you are now going to fast, so we are swapping your NSX for a Honda Acord (Nerf) to reduce your speed (Lag) and make everyone feel the same (balance). Now how would you feel about all that time, money, and hardwork you just waisted?

And what are you going to replace it with? That 5%-10% nerf is pretty much across the board for all the top dps, so you end up relatively unchanged. You'll just spec into something else that's been hit with the same nerf as everyone else.

[Necron7]

And what are you going to replace it with? That 5%-10% nerf is pretty much across the board for all the top dps, so you end up relatively unchanged. You'll just spec into something else that's been hit with the same nerf as everyone else.

Well with Ranger Tempest losing their 10% attack speed they take the biggest hit losing 10% on top of the the 5-10% the rest suffer, so they are useless. With pally's Zeal and the fighters Capstone taking hits that leaves THF Barbs the least effected by this NERF. I'm not even going to mention Rogue's and Monks; may you RIP. The choice is obvious. Turbine should rename the game to DDSO (dungeons and dragons sort of) the THF-Barbarian and Casters Saga.

[krud]

Well with Ranger Tempest losing their 10% attack speed they take the biggest hit losing 10% on top of the the 5-10% the rest suffer, so they are useless. With pally's Zeal and the fighters Capstone taking hits that leaves THF Barbs the least effected by this NERF. The choice is obvious. Turbine should rename the game to DDSO (dungeons and dragons sort of) the THF-Barbarian and Casters Saga.

If you take away anything from all this (and every other adjustment that has occurred over the years) it's that no build is going to stand head and shoulders above the rest (at least not for long). They will change THF twitch, and if you don't believe it, I got a bridge I can sell you.

With an attitude that "-5% = useless" of course you're gonna feel that you have to spend money to fix every single change turbine comes up with. The rest of us will save our money and continue succesfully completing quests with our "useless" builds just as easily as we did before.

If you feel the need to always have the FotM at your fingertips, again, that's not turbine's problem.