Wizard Life BEFORE fw

[oweieie]

Seriously play the game a little more before making such broad statements. If done right a multiclassed wizard/rogue can be a very good asset to a party. And yes the Inspired Quarter has traps in fact the one where you rescue Jonas Wilkes used to be nasty before they toned them down with the Disjunction spell. It took a rogue a very high spot and disable to get the traps down and guess what it was not a pure rogue that could do it. It was a Wizard Rogue.

Pure rogue has a higher potential disable and search than wizard. Sorry to burst your bubble. There isn't anywhere in the game where it matters however.

As I said before people have their ideas on what makes the game fun, if you like pure builds thats fine. But telling someone they fail because they want to multiclass and do more, thats true fail, try life outside the box one day its not as scary as you may think it is and its certainly not useless.

Being ineffective makes the game less fun. At high levels even with max spell pen, max spell DCs and max fire damage and crits wizards are still challenged to land spells and do reasonable damage compared to melee.

Many mobs have 31-35 spell resistance. 2 spell pen feats and 3 enhancements and a +3 item get you to 30 spell penetration, 2 levels of rogue means you're at 28 and are landing spells significantly less often.

1500 crit polar rays aren't actually all that great compared to melee dps, but 2 levels of rogue, and now it's 1350 damage instead. Firewalls also do less.

Heightened web costs 7 more SP a cast. Max empowered extended firewalls 3 more per cast etc. so you give up 2 levels of SP pool and 2 int worth of SP and all your spells are more expensive. Fine if you have pots to burn, but you WILL be burning pots a pure wizard wouldn't be.

Duration of all your spells is less, requiring more SP and more buff time.

Even with max int and capstone and enchantment or conjuration focus items, holds and web can be unreliable, losing capstone makes them even less reliable. Landing less often and breaking earlier, very bad combination.

Pre epic wail even in lich form with double necro spec max int and focus is unreliable in shavarath and VoD. Gimping *both* your DC *and* your spell pen by taking rogue makes you pretty much unable to be effective with it.

But hey, you can do all those traps instead of just walking around them or letting the bard with splash, ranger with splash or hey, the rogue do instead. Yeah, thumbs up, totally worth the gimpage.

[Bobthesponge]

With a level of rogue you should pretty much just reroll. The character is a fail.

Survey says???? FAIL!

Thanks for playing! Reasons for FAIL detailed by others! Happy Time now!

[Phidius]

You guys gotta stop feeding the troll... he lives for the attention.

Op: If you're soloing, Charm/Suggestion for some, and Hypnotism works good too. Parties tend to frown on the first, and waste the second.

For parties, blur/haste and wait for the big fights.

[Gnorbert]

Yup, grab master's touch and any old greataxe you can find. Load up every buff spell you can get your hands on and go make the fighter in your party cry because he can't outkill you.

[Kalari]

Meh your right Precious I just read their response its a sad world they play in and I hope to never cross paths with them. To the Op I hope that you continue to enjoy your build and believe me you can be as affective as you want to be despite what closed minded individuals who probably dont have many if any high levels under their belt try to tout.

[Phidius]

... and I hope to never cross paths with them...

You just nailed my number #1 reason for bizarre multiclasses.

[Scythera]

You guys gotta stop feeding the troll... he lives for the attention.

What he said.

Never played a wizard, so I have nothing to say on the topic. >.> Just... yeah

[Redgar]

Just remeber this

Wizard = CC, until higher level then you CC and instakill
Sorc = Mass Damage of spells.

I have seen melee mages and still I dont like them. A mage is just to squishy to be a front line fighter. You should learn to work with the party and not for yourself. Like I always say if you want to be melee, ROLE ONE. Fighters, Barb, Pally, Monk, and Rangers make great melee. Why do so many people want to use spell casters to melee. Cleric, FvS, Wizard, and Sorc should not melee at higher level. Sure you can MAY be able to stand up for your self, but why when you have so many other options. I guess it just does not make sense to me.

[Narzic]

Just remeber this

Wizard = CC, until higher level then you CC and instakill
Sorc = Mass Damage of spells.

I have seen melee mages and still I dont like them. A mage is just to squishy to be a front line fighter. You should learn to work with the party and not for yourself. Like I always say if you want to be melee, ROLE ONE. Fighters, Barb, Pally, Monk, and Rangers make great melee. Why do so many people want to use spell casters to melee. Cleric, FvS, Wizard, and Sorc should not melee at higher level. Sure you can MAY be able to stand up for your self, but why when you have so many other options. I guess it just does not make sense to me.

it can be way more mana efficient to buff and bash then to cast and blast. at least until you get wall of fire. :P

[Kalari]

Just remeber this

Wizard = CC, until higher level then you CC and instakill
Sorc = Mass Damage of spells.

I have seen melee mages and still I dont like them. A mage is just to squishy to be a front line fighter. You should learn to work with the party and not for yourself. Like I always say if you want to be melee, ROLE ONE. Fighters, Barb, Pally, Monk, and Rangers make great melee. Why do so many people want to use spell casters to melee. Cleric, FvS, Wizard, and Sorc should not melee at higher level. Sure you can MAY be able to stand up for your self, but why when you have so many other options. I guess it just does not make sense to me.

You know 3 years ago I may have thought the same way as you. You may see some who cannot make viable melee/caster builds but it can and has been done. Why reduce people to roles when this game has infinite possibilities? Its your right not to want to play with people who make multiclass builds or play mages/divines the way they wish but its not right to tell people they shouldnt just because of how you feel a class should be played. I mean with all due respect I know there are bad build combos out there, but I embrace people trying to learn whats viable for them since its their sub fees/ tp points purchased to do what they wish with their characters.

[Phidius]

...
I have seen melee mages and still I dont like them. A mage is just to squishy to be a front line fighter.

I don't think you and I share the same definition of squishy...

...
Why do so many people want to use spell casters to melee. Cleric, FvS, Wizard, and Sorc should not melee at higher level...

Self-healing... don't knock it until you've tried it. And I don't mean Cure Serious Wounds, either.

[gwlech]

Just remeber this

Wizard = CC, until higher level then you CC and instakill
Sorc = Mass Damage of spells.

I have seen melee mages and still I dont like them. A mage is just to squishy to be a front line fighter. You should learn to work with the party and not for yourself. Like I always say if you want to be melee, ROLE ONE. Fighters, Barb, Pally, Monk, and Rangers make great melee. Why do so many people want to use spell casters to melee. Cleric, FvS, Wizard, and Sorc should not melee at higher level. Sure you can MAY be able to stand up for your self, but why when you have so many other options. I guess it just does not make sense to me.

Why would you pigeonhole like this? A caster can melee most stuff just fine at higher level, it just takes the right equipment and buffs. Is it going to be as good as a normal melee build? Of course not, but it has its uses, and makes that character much more useful in certain situations.

At low levels, the gap between a typical melee class and a wizard/sorcerer is pretty much nonexistant. It exists because people expect it to, because "well, that's what role the class deserves."

[Frezar14]

With a level of rogue you should pretty much just reroll. The character is a fail.

Well, thanks for the input, but as 5 people stared at 2 locked chests in Deleras wondering what to do I was able to step up and unlock both of them with tools, not knock. Minor contribution yes, but a contribution none the less. I also disabled a few traps along the way to save hp and hence save healers sp. Again thanks for your input but I think I'll keep this gimped wizard, he's been fun so far. Thanks again to all others input as well, it has helped.

[xanvar]

Pure rogue has a higher potential disable and search than wizard. Sorry to burst your bubble. There isn't anywhere in the game where it matters however.



Being ineffective makes the game less fun. At high levels even with max spell pen, max spell DCs and max fire damage and crits wizards are still challenged to land spells and do reasonable damage compared to melee.

Many mobs have 31-35 spell resistance. 2 spell pen feats and 3 enhancements and a +3 item get you to 30 spell penetration, 2 levels of rogue means you're at 28 and are landing spells significantly less often.

1500 crit polar rays aren't actually all that great compared to melee dps, but 2 levels of rogue, and now it's 1350 damage instead. Firewalls also do less.

Heightened web costs 7 more SP a cast. Max empowered extended firewalls 3 more per cast etc. so you give up 2 levels of SP pool and 2 int worth of SP and all your spells are more expensive. Fine if you have pots to burn, but you WILL be burning pots a pure wizard wouldn't be.

Duration of all your spells is less, requiring more SP and more buff time.

Even with max int and capstone and enchantment or conjuration focus items, holds and web can be unreliable, losing capstone makes them even less reliable. Landing less often and breaking earlier, very bad combination.

Pre epic wail even in lich form with double necro spec max int and focus is unreliable in shavarath and VoD. Gimping *both* your DC *and* your spell pen by taking rogue makes you pretty much unable to be effective with it.

But hey, you can do all those traps instead of just walking around them or letting the bard with splash, ranger with splash or hey, the rogue do instead. Yeah, thumbs up, totally worth the gimpage.

First time I have wanted to leave neg rep, too bad I can't.

[oweieie]

Why would you pigeonhole like this? A caster can melee most stuff just fine at higher level, it just takes the right equipment and buffs. Is it going to be as good as a normal melee build? Of course not, but it has its uses, and makes that character much more useful in certain situations.

Why do people keep saying this nonsense. It's as true as fighters can be a useful caster with UMD. Yeah, they can toss some heal scrolls, buff and some chain lightnings but NO they are not "fine" any more than a meleeing wizard is "fine". If a wizard melees "fine" then the 11 extra feats, maxed out strength stat, madstone buffs, 10% haste and 80 enhancements a fighter puts directly into being better at meleeing would be... what... excessive? Unnecessary?

At low levels, the gap between a typical melee class and a wizard/sorcerer is pretty much nonexistant. It exists because people expect it to, because "well, that's what role the class deserves."

A level 1 fighter has +1 higher BAB than a wizard, a feat and probably a good 4 or more strength, so +3 to hit and +3 damage on a two-hander and also significantly more HP and more AC. "Nonexistant" is clearly WRONG. This difference GROWS as levels get higher to the point that a melee wizard does such an insignificant amount of melee damage compared to a true melee you're just flat out kidding yourself if you think you contribute anything but a headache to the cleric.

[Kalari]

Why do people keep saying this nonsense. It's as true as fighters can be a useful caster with UMD. Yeah, they can toss some heal scrolls, buff and some chain lightnings but NO they are not "fine" any more than a meleeing wizard is "fine". If a wizard melees "fine" then the 11 extra feats, maxed out strength stat, madstone buffs, 10% haste and 80 enhancements a fighter puts directly into being better at meleeing would be... what... excessive? Unnecessary?



A level 1 fighter has +1 higher BAB than a wizard, a feat and probably a good 4 or more strength, so +3 to hit and +3 damage on a two-hander and also significantly more HP and more AC. "Nonexistant" is clearly WRONG. This difference GROWS as levels get higher to the point that a melee wizard does such an insignificant amount of melee damage compared to a true melee you're just flat out kidding yourself if you think you contribute anything but a headache to the cleric.

Unnecessary to you, can you forget about your technical and just realize that some people play this game for and stay with me now *gasp* fun? I mean yeah its hard to believe in the world of min/maxing that people actually log onto ddo to feel like an unique character instead of a cookie cutter build. Or that some people dont let percieved roles stop them from enjoying this game. I miss pen and paper at times it wasnt about your class icon it was about how you portrayed yourself. You keep touting technical stuff, there are plenty of wiz/rogues who are probably laughing at your assessment about them being burdens but honestly its not worth it closed minded you are very much and I really hope the game isnt all about calculations to you if it is thats just sad.

[ddoer]

before Fw, use Niac+Burning Hand, Niac+Acid Blast, or Niac+Fireball, plus CSW pots. Learn to maximize your spell damage, optimize your DC, basically kiting and nuking and survival techniques in low level. when you have a AoE damage spell, you technically could gather up a large group of mobs to kill together and you shouldn't run out of mana often.

for the spell choice, for non-TR, i still think Niac+Acid Blast with (double) conjuration focus is the best, even though for my TR casters i don't bother to use conjuration focus anymore.

[Oreg]

I personally just load up the Masters Touch spell ( Proficiency with all martial weapons/1 minute per level ). Grab your self a nice greataxe and swing away. I also reccomend rage and a bulls strength. I have a WF wiz/rog currently on my 2nd TR and still use the master touch spell. It helps with mana conservation and is fun!
Good Luck!

Agreed. Ember Greataxe and Master's touch will get you to Level 6.

[Bacab]

Oweieweiwiwieiiiwwii is right.

Everything should be optimized. From now on, here are what is acceptable. 20 Pure GreatAxe or Epic SoS Barbs. Level 20 Pure Heal-bot FVS. Level 20 Pure Bard that just heal/recon scroll the Barbs. And Wizard/Sorc that just have web/dance. Because baisically the best party is

20 FVS
20 Bard
20 CC Specced Arcane
20 Barb
20 Barb
20 Barb

If you are anything except that...you phail...

Seriously, this troll posted in a similar thread about a month ago the same rhetoric.

Ok Owie...we get it. Pure WIZ is a better arcane than a 18/2 Split. But sometimes people like to duo/shortman things and getting traps can be fun. No one is argueing that a PURE WIZ is not a "better caster". But to say 18/2 is worthless is just short-sighted.

Me? I like to role play a bit. I pretend that I am a master cat-burglar. I use invis and my stealth skills to go in and get the mission done. Heck I even farmed a "Docent of the Tomb" to complete my look.

Just because someone does something different than you, does not mean its "wrong". Now you are allowed to jump on people who roll with super low HP. I do think we can all agree on that.

Also 18/2 is a great Beginner (what I mean is that you can fill multiple rolls in a party and learn while short-manning) build. I am new to the arcane side of the house. I had a drow SOR that was maxed level back in '06. Yeah he was a bad mofo...he was level 10. PK and wall-o-fire! Those where the only 2 spells I was expected to know. Now that I am leveling again, I am experimenting with different spells and figuring out what I need to do. Once I ding level 20 and gather some gear; I plan on TRing him. Not sure if I will go WIZ or SOR the second time around, but as of now...my WIZ/ROG is super fun...and thats what I play for. FUN.

Anyway, good luck to you OP. Enjoy your WIZ. Oh and my advice. Join a party and buff people. Or pick quest that stealth can get you through. Also the 2 best DPS spells in the game are Haste and Firewall. Pretty sure you have haste

[Kriogen]

Just remeber this

Wizard = CC, until higher level then you CC and instakill
Sorc = Mass Damage of spells.

I have seen melee mages and still I dont like them. A mage is just to squishy to be a front line fighter. You should learn to work with the party and not for yourself. Like I always say if you want to be melee, ROLE ONE. Fighters, Barb, Pally, Monk, and Rangers make great melee. Why do so many people want to use spell casters to melee. Cleric, FvS, Wizard, and Sorc should not melee at higher level. Sure you can MAY be able to stand up for your self, but why when you have so many other options. I guess it just does not make sense to me.

DDO is a bit more different then that.

Hint: Cleric/FvS gets spell called Divine Power, Wiz/Sorc get Tenser Transformation, that "converts" you into a warrior for a short period of time.

Casters don't melee as good as fighters, but its legit they do. It is also an advantage for a group if casters do some combat.

Whats better:
a. barbarian that chops + cleric that casts only + wizard that casts only
b. barbarian that chops + cleric that pokes mobs and casts + wizard that pokes mobs and casts

(A) has 100% melee and 100% magic. (B) can have 200% melee (more then 100) and 100% magic.

DDO is designed in such a way, that casters also fight. Sure, not as good as barbarians, but still usefull. OK, maybe Min2 is not so great for a low Str Wizard, but lets say Rad2 is? For blindness effect. You can even put +3 exceptional Int on it, perfect for a Wizard? Cast Master Touch and you can poke stuff with Rad2 kukri/rapier maybe?

Now really, when have you seen a Beserker Barb choping things with Shattermantle Greataxe? Useless stuff for a barb, but very nice for caster with Masters Touch and Divine Power clickies.