Friendlier forums

[Warlawk]

And why are you wrong about this?


Well when you invest as much time and money into something you kind of take a little pride in it, you kid of take a little bit of IT with you, you find a commonality with people like Kalari and with that you do kind of make it "your house". So to come into our house and tout about that "other game" and what it does or doesn't do is a bit on the rude side. As for an analogy I think Kalari's was as pertinent if not more to the argument.

Who exactly is forcing you to read those threads? Great, take pride in your game. That doesn't give you the right to troll other peoples threads just because you disagree with them. If you don't want to read the thread, don't read it. But that doesn't make trolling it any more acceptable it just makes you a troll.

Childish in the context of having fun, maybe....childish in the context of calling names/throwing a tantrum....hmmmm, will let you decipher that one, think I am going to take Kalari's cue on this one.

Calling a troll a troll isn't name calling. Having fun at the expense of someone else isn't fun, it's childish, immature internet troll behavior. Derailing a thread where someone is attempting to have a discussion of a topic they find interesting is exactly that. It's only fun for the trolls. There's no tantrum here, you're just reading a lot of emotion into because being called a troll and realizing it's true apparently gets people all worked up. Personally, there's no emotion at my keyboard just now aside from a little amusement and perhaps disappointment. So much potential for a good community here, but the established members are bound and determined to drive away anyone who doesn't agree with them.

Don't like threads on a particular subject, don't click on them. Derailing them with senseless nonsense posts isn't fun or funny, it's just trolling.

Lol@negrep for pointing out when forum regulars are being trolls. Just another fine example of the rep system being useless. Point out something that is factually true, though unpopular and you get rep hits for it. Always good for a laugh.

[Kalari]

Mag I apologize for my part in derailing your thread specially since weve agreed to disagree and no longer argue with each other. But point blank someone came into your thread defending the spew of trollish wow threads and it got me antsy. I still agree with you that the tone of the forums have calmed down a lot since last years EU launch and hopefully will remain that way threwout the summer which I have a feeling will see another big boom in our population.

But I still maintain my right to speak my mind debate topics and call out the stupid its just how I am and wont change that any time soon. So sorry I got into the rounds did not mean to derail your thread but wasnt going to let that guy slide. Hes squelched now so no more arguing with him from me I promise.

[Aristalla]

I liked the community when I first came here. It's one of the main reasons that I have stayed. And yes, I do believe it is getting even better, for the most part (this thread excluded, lol).

On a side note, someone in this thread has some serious issues with cookies. What did cookies ever do to anyone? Other than be yummy that is.

-Ari

[Stuttrboy]

This is one of the friendliest forums I've been on, but I frequent boards where it's customary for people to give you hell, call you names and generally *expletive* and moan for a misspelled word or for posting OFN. But I enjoy the challenge.

[Warlawk]

This is one of the friendliest forums I've been on, but I frequent boards where it's customary for people to give you hell, call you names and generally *expletive* and moan for a misspelled word or for posting OFN. But I enjoy the challenge.

It's a very friendly forum, as long as you don't post anything negative about DDO, positive about any other game, disagree in any way with the established member community or point out when they act like spoiled children.

They're perfectly capable of just not reading threads they don't like, but insist on trolling them instead. Then get upset when they get called on it.

[Calebro]

Warlawk:
A question: Would you log into Chevrolet's website and begin posting threads about how they need to be more like Ford?
Would you log into Pepsi's website and begin posting threads about how they need to be more like Coke?
Would you log into Playstation's website and begin posting threads about how they need to be more like XBox?

No, you wouldn't. And even if you did you'd fully expect the natives to get restless, wouldn't you?
This is Kalari's point.

[cardmj1]

I started playing about the time F2P went live. I have been a pretty active forum presence. I must say that over time these forums and inside the game have become a much friendlier place for the new player. It may not seem that way at times but over all I think people are more understanding and helpful now than they were before. Since day one there have been many people who have been extremely welcoming and they deserve a lot of credit. Here is a personal thank you from me.

That said, over the coarse of time some very negative and unwelcoming people have either stopped posting, reduced the amount of the negative posting or have completely changed the tone of their posting. Another great big thank you. I disagree with many people from time to time but I feel like there is not the animosity there once was. I think the F2P launch was such a huge change, those first few months there were significantly more people who knew completely nothing about the game than there were people who knew about it. It was probably a frustrating time for some. For those of you who went out of your way to help I feel like your efforts are now paying off.

Some of us actually know a little bit about what we are talking about and can help… and sometimes, I am sure a little knowledge is dangerous… I think the influx of brand new players although still strong is more steady than one giant avalanche. If I try to put myself in a veteran players shoes, I must admit there may have been some very challenging moments that would have tried my patience.

The people who recognize me know I am a glass half full guy but I feel like things are starting be more than half full around here and it has everything to do with all of you. Thanks

I agree with you. That first 6 months was pretty brutal but things (despite the turn this thread is trying to make) have been mellowing out. It was simply a matter of time.

[Adalita]

Except this isn't your house.
Except you don't have to "listen" to what they're saying.

You want a metaphor here's one.

You go to the park, as you're walking past you hear a group of people discussing the differences between WoW and DDO. Even though you don't know these people, and (allegedly) don't want to take part in this discussion, you step into their space and tell them "This is a stupid discussion, lets talk about cookies".

Who comes off looking like a tool in that situation? The forums are a public place, not your "home". By doing things like that, you do indeed look like the "immature babies" you named yourself in your own post. Grow up a little, you don't want to read about it, don't click the thread.

Excellent metaphor, I'm going to remember that one. I'd rep you if you didn't have it disabled.

[Calebro]

Excellent metaphor, I'm going to remember that one. I'd rep you if you didn't have it disabled.

No, it isn't an excellent metaphor. It is all but useless as a metaphor because we're not in a park, listening to a conversation. We're in DDO's forums having that conversation.
The players here, both new and old, who have found this game and these forums to be a second home, find this rude and annoying.

If certain people are so concerned with playing a game that's more like WoW... here's an idea... GO PLAY WOW!

To come here, to the DDO forums, and continually try to change us to be more like WoW is both rude and insulting. They are two different games. They previously had two separate player bases for a reason. The F2P model may have bridged some of the gap in player base, but it certainly didn't give a green light for all the people that have been here for a whole week to tell us what needs to change.

The fact is that the posters against these types of threads aren't the trolls. The people who post these threads are the one who are trolling, by coming into DDO's forums and spouting scripture from WoW.

See my post prior to this one.

[Arkat]

It's not even really a metaphor. It's an analogy.

[cardmj1]

Question: Since the DDO Forums require a person to create an account, would forums be considered public? I mean, it's more of a members only and not really public as war referred to it in his analogy of a park. Am I off base?

[Kalari]

Question: Since the DDO Forums require a person to create an account, would forums be considered public? I mean, it's more of a members only and not really public as war referred to it in his analogy of a park. Am I off base?

Well its slightly technical I mean anyone can read it but your right in order to participate you must create an account and become a member. So to me joining a game forum for DDO then spamming our forums with "why cant this be more like wow" just doesnt make sense. It would be like sitting at a rival football games section wearing the enemies colors. We love our game and even if this forums is public for viewing most of its members play this game so I dont see why the sudden influx of "why cant this be like wow nonsense or this game vs wow what it lacks." Just seems silly to me.

[Borror0]

blah has spoken.

You've got the wrong Argonaut. It's Aspenor that "has spoken." Blah is just the Mad God.

Coming into a thread and blatantly derailing it with ceaseless "cookie" posts just makes you look childish, petty and shows who the trolls really are.

Oh my god, did you guys successfully cookied a thread recently? I must have missed it. Can I haz a link plz?

Seems like it's one of those DDO vs woW thread but there has 20 of those recently and I don't really want to read them all only to find out which it is.

The forums are a public place, not your "home".

Um, no. Forums develop communities and it becomes "home" to the members of the community. The community develop traits - it can be welcoming or xenophobic, it can be serious or focused on humor, etc. If those traits are bad, the community manager have to reshape the community but having community members considering that place "home" is never bad. It means that they like the place, come back frequently and care about the community.

I'm not sure which thread has been cookied, but it's only a bad thing if it's a good thread. Some thread have a bad effect on the community and it's best just to kill it than let it live. It's good bad enough for the moderators to lock it but that does not stop the community from deciding, together, that it should not be allowed to grow.

[Makar40]

Well its slightly technical I mean anyone can read it but your right in order to participate you must create an account and become a member. So to me joining a game forum for DDO then spamming our forums with "why cant this be more like wow" just doesnt make sense. It would be like sitting at a rival football games section wearing the enemies colors. We love our game and even if this forums is public for viewing most of its members play this game so I dont see why the sudden influx of "why cant this be like wow nonsense or this game vs wow what it lacks." Just seems silly to me.

While I do understand where you are coming from, humans compare things of a similar nature in order to provide a frame of reference for their experiences. people compare their new girlfriend to their old girlfriends, new job to their old job, new house to the old house. As they age, they compare how things used to be to how things are now. Hence why so many old people have the "back in my day...." conversations. Its human nature.

DDO is seeing, and will continue to see new people joining that have played Wow as their only MMO for the last 4 years, or even with WoW being the only MMO they have ever played. Ofcourse they will compare. I see no reason why DDO cannot stand toe to toe in comparison to another MMO. Its a good game. But its not perfect.


In order for anything to become better, it must look at what it does well and what it does NOT do well. Which is why most companies actually welcome contructive criticism. Potential customers (and thereby potential revenue), listing what they liked about another game that DDO doesnt provide, provides just as much helpful information, that DDO fans listing what they love about DDO provides.

Just because someone lists why THEY liked certain features from another MMO, doesnt mean they are trying to turn DDO into that other MMO. It means, they've gone to DDO General Discussion, and started a discussion thats about DDO. Trying to further a pro-DDO agenda via cookie derailment censorship wont change that. For a community that prides itself on being more mature than others, its sad to see people engaging in a parallel form of sticking thier fingers in thier ears and yelling "nyah-nyah I cant hear you".......

EDIT for spelling.

[DoctorWhofan]

You've got the wrong Argonaut. It's Aspenor that "has spoken." Blah is just the Mad God.

Oh my god, did you guys successfully cookied a thread recently? I must have missed it. Can I haz a link plz?

Seems like it's one of those DDO vs woW thread but there has 20 of those recently and I don't really want to read them all only to find out which it is.

Um, no. Forums develop communities and it becomes "home" to the members of the community. The community develop traits - it can be welcoming or xenophobic, it can be serious or focused on humor, etc. If those traits are bad, the community manager have to reshape the community but having community members considering that place "home" is never bad. It means that they like theplace, come back frequently and care about the community.

I'm not sure which thread has been cookied, but it's only a bad thing if it's a good thread. Some thread have a bad effect on the community and it's best just to kill it than let it live. It's good bad enough for the moderators to lock it but that does not stop the community from deciding, together, that it should not be allowed to grow.

There is a little bit of BLah in all of us...except Memnir!

THis wasn't a bad thread, someone spoiled the fun.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=250585

THere's the cookied thread. Blame me. You need to look at the forums on the weekend instead of curling with your buds at the local ice rink on the weekends.

[Kalari]

While I do understand where you are coming from, humans compare things of a similar nature in order to provide a frame of reference for their experiences. people compare their new girlfriend to their old girlfriends, new job to their old job, new house to the old house. As they age, they compare how things used to be to how things are now. Hence why so many old people have the "back in my day...." conversations. Its human nature.

DDO is seeing, and will continue to see new people joining that have played Wow as their only MMO for the last 4 years, or even with WoW being the only MMO they have ever played. Ofcourse they will compare. I see no reason why DDO cannot stand toe to toe in comparison to another MMO. Its a good game. But its not perfect.


In order for anything to become better, it must look at what it does well and what it does NOT do well. Which is why most companies actually welcome contructive criticism. Potential customers (and thereby potential revenue), listing what they liked about another game that DDO doesnt provide, provides just as much helpful information, that DDO fans listing what they love about DDO provides.

Just because someone lists why THEY liked certain features from another MMO, doesnt mean they are trying to turn DDO into that other MMO. It means, they've gone to DDO General Discussion, and started a discussion thats about DDO. Trying to further a pro-DDO agenda via cookie derailment censorship wont change that. For a community that prides itself on being more mature than others, its sad to see people engaging in a parallel form of sticking thier fingers in thier ears and yelling "nyah-nyah I cant hear you".......

EDIT for spelling.

Alright answer me this seriously because instead of squelching you I really want to know. Do you really think that if a hand ful of us went over to Blizzard/WoW forums starting numerous threads about DDO what we love about DDO how Wow could benefit from DDO's combat, instanced quests/explorers the more like pen and paper with building feel and the like that we would get a warm reception?

Think about that then realize that we have had this game for over four years we have prided ourselves on being different, every other week now it seems people are bringing up WOW to compare and I dont get it, if you like pvp there are pvp games out there D&D that I know and love has never been PVP centric. Mounts? Nice but doesnt fit this game the world simply isnt that big or travelled enough to justify such. These are just two off the top of my head that ive seen suggested oh wait the /follow which im not even sure if thats a wow feature but certainly not something needed yet got beaten to death and its tiring.

I get people want to compare games rivals do it from time to time but in the last week alone we had numerous of wow nonsense and its tiring I dont want this game with wow features even minute we can create our own unique fun atmosphere without it and I stick by that. So with all due respect once again if derailing a silly wow vs ddo thread is childish then I can only imagine the kind of things that would happen if the shoe was on the other foot and we went to their forums doing the same. Do you think the topic would be about cookies then?

[Borror0]

There is a little bit of BLah in all of us

Um, no. I won't let Blah's little bit inside of me.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=250585

Okay, that was awesome. <3

[DoctorWhofan]

Um, no. I won't let Blah's little bit inside of me.

Okay, that was awesome. <3

And now blah knows. He will be after you.

And thank you. One of my better answers.

[phillymiket]

Thanks OP
I joined the game when it went F2P and assumed the tone on the forums was a natural reaction to the changes the game was making. I would be surprised if there wasn't some hard feeling at new people/new ways. So I figure they were never inordinately unfriendly to begin with.

IPeople who've been here for years crapping all over threads they don't like <snip> ceaseless "cookie" <snip>seen a thread 500 times <snip> For all the claims of an older player base and more adult outlook, the general forums certainly don't show it.

As to the cr@ping and cookies, I don’t think you are considering that MOST of the DDO –vs- threads seemed to be INTENDED to get vets angry. Reread them. Some were not (one in particular) and that’s a shame but maybe that’s just some collateral damage from 500 threads in ONE WEEK about the same topic. The original fire-starting trolls must at least share some blame for the innocent people who got burned.

The forums aren’t anyone’s or any group’s ‘house’ but open to all. Yet, people take pride in the game and have made the forums a ‘home’. We newer folks should respect this. Yes, Turbine owns the joint but people can still have proprietary interest without deriving profit. This is a rare and a good thing. Turbine should be happy they have vets who care so should new people. The build forums and advice you and I use and enjoy would not exist if there wasn’t a strong feeling of ownership.

The other game I play has a very mature and extremely polite community.
Their forums are also boring as h3ll. Guides and advice are rare. Those that exist are incomplete, out dated or incorrect, maybe because people aren’t passionate enough to rip people one when they post dumb.

Given the choice I’ll take a little ‘get off my turf’ over crickets chirping.

[Warlawk]

While I do understand where you are coming from, humans compare things of a similar nature in order to provide a frame of reference for their experiences. people compare their new girlfriend to their old girlfriends, new job to their old job, new house to the old house. As they age, they compare how things used to be to how things are now. Hence why so many old people have the "back in my day...." conversations. Its human nature.

DDO is seeing, and will continue to see new people joining that have played Wow as their only MMO for the last 4 years, or even with WoW being the only MMO they have ever played. Ofcourse they will compare. I see no reason why DDO cannot stand toe to toe in comparison to another MMO. Its a good game. But its not perfect.


In order for anything to become better, it must look at what it does well and what it does NOT do well. Which is why most companies actually welcome contructive criticism. Potential customers (and thereby potential revenue), listing what they liked about another game that DDO doesnt provide, provides just as much helpful information, that DDO fans listing what they love about DDO provides.

Just because someone lists why THEY liked certain features from another MMO, doesnt mean they are trying to turn DDO into that other MMO. It means, they've gone to DDO General Discussion, and started a discussion thats about DDO. Trying to further a pro-DDO agenda via cookie derailment censorship wont change that. For a community that prides itself on being more mature than others, its sad to see people engaging in a parallel form of sticking thier fingers in thier ears and yelling "nyah-nyah I cant hear you".......

EDIT for spelling.

Well said, kind of a bummer you likely got negrep and will likely receive a pointless stream of cookie posts in response. Apparently DDO is perfect and doesn't need anyone to question that, or suggest features that work well for other games. The sheer hostility the vets around here toss at that is just amazing and pathetic at the same time. Honestly considering canceling because of the raw hostility against new ideas that is so strongly espoused both here and in game. But hey, driving away monthly sub paying customers just because you don't happen to agree with them is good for the game right? My wife has been a D&D gamer for 10 years now and isn't interested in playing because of browsing the forums and reading a little over my shoulder in game. Hell, the WoW community that gets so much **** around here is pretty much on par with what I've seen here. For all the superior attitude, fanbois are the same no matter what flag they stand under. At least most wow trolls don't try to disguise what they are and talk down from some high horse.