Why all the WoW vs DDO threads lately?

[ddaedelus]

The MMO space is odd in that there literally is a 500 pound elephant in the room called WoW. Still, I can eat at a local restaurant and not compare the food to McDonalds, I don't understand why WoW has to be the benchmark for MMO chat.

Because people mistakenly think that the goal of every MMO is to be as financially successful as WoW or that the devs want to "take on" WoW. No sensible developer/marketer/designer thinks that way when creating a new MMO (or reinventing an old one).

[Lorien_the_First_One]

My favorite part of the WoW hate is that a large portion of the haters here have never played it.

Well that's a troll if I ever say it.

I'd hazard a guess most people who put it down have tried it, that's why we dislike it, we know it sucks.

[Stuttrboy]

The MMO space is odd in that there literally is a 500 pound elephant in the room called WoW. Still, I can eat at a local restaurant and not compare the food to McDonalds, I don't understand why WoW has to be the benchmark for MMO chat.

Not when people are bringing McDonalds in with them to eat. It's the benchmark because of it's success. Why wouldn't the most ridiculously successful MMORPG be the comparison. If you think Turbine wouldn't sell their souls for WoW's numbers you'd be kidding yourself.

I'm no WoW fanboy, but they make ridiculous money and I would hazard the suggestion that 99% of the DDO community has played it before. So not only is it pervasive, but it is, in general, bug free, consistently updated and much more polished as far as testing.

The OPs suggestion that DDO is in fact a high performance vehicle and WoW is merely a 4 cyclinder Ford isn't a great metaphor since Wow doesn't have the high end content lag and pervasive bugs that much of DDO content does.

I would say WoW is more like Checkers and DDO is like Chess. It takes a significantly higher amount of reason and intelligence to play DDO. I think this is a good thing, but it does make it so the stupid people don't like to play it so much. Which I think is also a good thing.

[Kalari]

Well that's a troll if I ever say it.

I'd hazard a guess most people who put it down have tried it, that's why we dislike it, we know it sucks.

What kills me Lorien are those of us who said yes we gave wow a shot and did not like it and they still dont get it.

I dont want to camp kills or be ganked in pvp their role play chat? yeah cybering is not role playing period.

I have tons of friends who play wow I respect that they enjoy it I expect the same respect for the game I enjoy. I dont hate wow players but I do hate people who come to other game forums putting them down saying why cant you be like x. Because we are not and if we were the complaints would be "your just copying wow."

No one can say that about ddo and sure we are lacking some small features that many of us agree that our mmo can use (auction house refacing for petes sake). But we dont need mounts, we dont need more pvp and we certainly dont need Mr. T ads. DDO is a fine game fine enough to last 4 years without advertising and blowing up with new players now that we are free to play.

If you like wow so much go back to it.

[Thurgrim]

I would say WoW is more like Checkers and DDO is like Chess. It takes a significantly higher amount of reason and intelligence to play DDO. I think this is a good thing, but it does make it so the stupid people don't like to play it so much. Which I think is also a good thing.

This I have to say hits the proverbial nail right on the head. I recently had a couple of friends that were burned out on WoW, tired of waiting for the next update, come and try out DDO.

Even though neither of them knew the other, everytime I chatted with them in real life, it was like that movie Groundhog's Day...they each kept asking the same questions, not understanding the same aspects (is the d20 system really that hard to grasp?!?) (what do you mean I don't have to be hidden to do a sneak attack?) (and for the love of all that is sane...NO YOU CAN'T TAME A PET!!!)

I believe your analogy is correct. There were many online games prior to WoW, but most of them actually required a brain to understand many of the subtle interactions of the game mechanics. DDO follows along those lines. WoW, on the otherhand, did what Windows did for computers...you don't have to "know" computers with Windows, just click on the icon and it does the thinking for you. Windows brought MANY people to computers that don't (didn't know squat) about computers or computing languages, just like WoW brought a new genre to gaming who never knew any games prior to WoW's successful marketing campaign.

We have Ozzy and Mr.T (among others) to thank for recruiting these "new" gamers.

[Mockduck]

I just don't think very often in binary terms, to me it's not an either-or, win-lose, best-worst, good-bad thing. WoW can do what it does and that's fine, who cares if DDO doesn't "beat" WoW in terms of financial success. There's nothing to beat, both games can and have done just fine on their own terms. WoW could double its current population and it will have no impact on whether I like the game or not.

[tomfar72]

The MMO space is odd in that there literally is a 500 pound elephant in the room called WoW. Still, I can eat at a local restaurant and not compare the food to McDonalds, I don't understand why WoW has to be the benchmark for MMO chat.

Wait, so if WoW is McDonalds, that would make DDO Burger King? That would make DDO going F2P in an attempt to drum up more business like Burger King selling their BK double cheeseburgers for a buck to drum up business? HMMM I like BK double cheeseburgers....

[Kalari]

Wait, so if WoW is McDonalds, that would make DDO Burger King? That would make DDO going F2P in an attempt to drum up more business like Burger King selling their BK double cheeseburgers for a buck to drum up business? HMMM I like BK double cheeseburgers....

LOL yeah just think of "Lets kick some Axe" as our version of a creepy mascot

[isldur]

It was all go so well, and then someone called my subaru sti soulless. I have passed countless Porsche(s) on the track. The boxer is slow. Most people own Porsche's only because its a Porsche and couldn't change oil in it to save their own lives. Congrats on at least taking yours to a track.

One of the Porsche clubs from chicago won't even let any other cars on the track with them. I think their scared.

**** it now I'm trolling.

[lutherl]

I just don't think very often in binary terms, to me it's not an either-or, win-lose, best-worst, good-bad thing. WoW can do what it does and that's fine, who cares if DDO doesn't "beat" WoW in terms of financial success. There's nothing to beat, both games can and have done just fine on their own terms. WoW could double its current population and it will have no impact on whether I like the game or not.

That's a very mature, sedate response.

Unfortunately, maturity is incredibly unpopular these days. Didn't use to be that way (or at least not so much) back in the early days of MMOs. I don't remember any cross-game hate between M59 and The Realm. I don't remember much cross-game hate between EQ, DAoC, SW:G, AO, SB, etc. Mostly if people were unhappy with EQ, they went to DAoC (or whatever game they left for) and nobody really heard from them again unless they came back declaring their brief fling with GameX sucked and they were glad to be back.

But now, MMO-gaming is more divisive than American Politics, and people just love to come to GameX's forums and talk about how GameY is so much better and how your love of GameX is hastening the apocalypse, Mayan calendar be damned.

I'm not sure where it's coming from, and I'm not trying to be snarky here, but honestly I can't remember hearing near as much cross-game nastiness until not too long after the release of WoW. Maybe the mainstreaming of MMO's has contributed to the vehemence people feel toward someone who actually *gasp* chooses to play something else.

Now personally, I played WoW. I soloed a character starting ~ 30 NOV 08 (just after the Lich King expansion was released) and was max levelled by the end of the following January. Some people I knew online were in a raid guild and I was encouraged to come play WoW with them (we met and played together in WAR but the grind of ONE T3 scenario over and over got too old and we just couldn't stand it anymore). I think I made it till that March or April before I just couldn't stand playing anymore. So, it's not like I haven't played it, it's not that I didn't give it a fair trial...I just hated it (and the community).

[Ethias]

My favorite part of the WoW hate is that a large portion of the haters here have never played it.

I've played a ton of WoW, and I probably come off as a WoW hater quite a bit.

I started in WoW during it's beta, and have played it until now. Next month will be the first month in years I haven't had a subscription to WoW active.

[sigtrent]

Because DDO is the #2 game of choice for ex-WOW players after runescape.

[Bacab]

...I would say WoW is more like Checkers and DDO is like Chess. It takes a significantly higher amount of reason and intelligence to play DDO. I think this is a good thing, but it does make it so the stupid people don't like to play it so much. Which I think is also a good thing.

This is how I feel.

I really do not think WoW is god-awful. I, myself just did not enjoy it. I got to like level 10 and just did not enjoy the UI or the artwork. WoW just seems overly simplified.

Oh as far as the Porsche "punishing you" its more of a balance issue. MR and RR have actual higher thresh-holds for cornering than a FR car...but when they "slip out from underneath" you...it is very sudden and almost without warning.

[geoffhanna]

get off of Ford, stuttgart fanboy



(serious though when you said "Ford" you meant "Yugo". Or maybe "Chrysler")

[Delacroix21]

The reason=

DDO seems to be going away from what made it special and great more and more while WoW is actually getting BETTER each patch! In fact WoW will be the 1st MMO to totally revamp old content to make it both fun and new for old players, I expect to see them rake in another 1 million previous subscribers who left long ago from this!



DDO despite beoming a FTP MMO, seems more heading down the path of end game grinding and pandering to low level new players while leaving the long time players in the dust. DDO is slowly becoming a stagnant tird that only has appeal for new players looking to try it out.

[Bacab]

It was all go so well, and then someone called my subaru sti soulless. I have passed countless Porsche(s) on the track. The boxer is slow. Most people own Porsche's only because its a Porsche and couldn't change oil in it to save their own lives. Congrats on at least taking yours to a track.

One of the Porsche clubs from chicago won't even let any other cars on the track with them. I think their scared.

**** it now I'm trolling.

I know the club I am in has mainly older people (30+ year olds). They do indeed find comfort that there are no 16 year olds with amped up Honda's and WRX's etc. Not to say all Import drivers are the same...but those were the guys in the past that passed in the "no pass zones". There are course rules, and it was not the 45 year old men in 65k cars that were breaking them. It was the kids in 4k cars with 2k worth of "mods" (looking at you maxwell house coffee can muffler without changing the engine mapping). I have driven my buddies WRX and a buddy's EVO.

They are indeed very easy to drive, and blindingly fast. Also the Boxster is not a super fast car. The Boxster S though is a lot better. It is like comparing a WRX to an Impreza. Have to admit, I have seen people in EVO's and WRX's that understand how to drive. AKA can drift and understand weight transfer and engine breaking and Apexing...but most just know how to "grip around a turn" and if they were placed in a car that did not drive itself...they would end up off the skidpad in the hay (the barriers). I have seen a lot of very unskilled drivers in the Imports...that's all. And yeah I realize the guys in my Club that have been driving competitively for 15 years are not typical drivers. So I definitely have a skewed view. Also one more thing...I live near Redmond, WA...aka Microsoft HQ. There are a lotta computer "nerds" that make great money and go out and buy WRX's and EVO's. The 2 buddies I listed before are an example. They have the cash...but not the skills. No lie one buddy bought a EVO and is still learning how to use a manual transmission. He got the car 2 and a half years ago lol.

[Narmolanya]

I myself would compare ddo to a Saab. They use to be a very quirky and diffrent car. I use to love them for that and would only own Saabs in the 90's. I was not alone in this there many other Saab fanatics in Santa Cruz area where I use to live. Everytime I would get my car repaired at Saab-o-Rama in SC I would see the fantics there.

Then they got bought out by Ford and look at the Saab models now, they look like every other car on the street.

Being unique creates a large amount of loyality but also limits you from every being accepted by the masses. Lose what makes you special and you just become another face in the crowd.

[Bacab]

I myself would compare ddo to a Saab. They use to be a very quirky and diffrent car. I use to love them for that and would only own Saabs in the 90's. I was not alone in this there many other Saab fanatics in Santa Cruz area where I use to live. Everytime I would get my car repaired at Saab-o-Rama in SC I would see the fantics there.

Then they got bought out by Ford and look at the Saab models now, they look like every other car on the street.

Being unique creates a large amount of loyality but also limits you from every being accepted by the masses. Lose what makes you special and you just become another face in the crowd.

100% correct about SAAB. And you can take the word "Saab" and substitute "Jaguar" and it would be the same story too btw.

[isldur]

Just to keep derailing and I find it more interesting than the wow thing lol.

Boxster S compared to regular boxster would be like WRX compared to STI (many different parts...engine, Brakes, suspension, wheel size, turbo ect)

Most Porsches come with traction control and other "helpers" that make them much easier to drive than the old days. I agree my all wheel drive (and adjustable center diff) allows me a little more room for error than high hp, high torque cars (I don't consider the boxster or the boxster S a "high torque" car).

People don't pass to often in the no passing zone at road america, and if they do they get black flagged. If you really upset the control tower they will boot you with no refund. Usually don't have to worry about any honda's unless they put alot of money into their brakes.

On a side note Subaru and porsche use the same boxer style engine.

[DoctorWhofan]

I've played a ton of WoW, and I probably come off as a WoW hater quite a bit.

I started in WoW during it's beta, and have played it until now. Next month will be the first month in years I haven't had a subscription to WoW active.

Again, I like you. You can stay.