Undying Court neccessary?

[Wuliev]

So i'm an elf paladin, and the elf paladin gets the undying court deity enhancement packages.
At level 1 you get +1 to hit w/ scimitars, and at level 4 proficiency which you already have.
At level 6 you can res a friend, true res for high elves, raide dead for others.

These enhancements are cool. They help out. They have a really cool flavor to them.
But with the valenar elf melee enhancements and the res enhancements that you get a little later on, all of the undying court enhancements seem superfluous, and with the other sets mentioned they are upgradeable if you want to do so.
Do you need the deity enhancement packages in order to get the Knight of the Chalice prestige?
btw twf dps build is what i'm running, so the res bit isn't that important anyway.
Are they attractive because they require less action points for parts of the same outcome?
are a lack of action points even a big deal when you're in the higher up levels?
thanks for reading these speculations and questions.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

You do not need the faith enhancements on a paladin to qualify for anything else.
Personally, I forgot the first one gave a +1 to hit. I went Sovereign Host on my drow pally for the Unyielding Sovereignty heal.
Although that res is nice, too.

[lord_of_rage]

You do not need the faith enhancements on a paladin to qualify for anything else.
Personally, I forgot the first one gave a +1 to hit. I went Sovereign Host on my drow pally for the Unyielding Sovereignty heal.
Although that res is nice, too.

You do need a faith line to qualify for tier3 enhancements.

Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Usage: Passive
Cost: 2 action points
Spent: 66 action points
Requires One of: Unyielding Sovereignty, Silver Flame Exorcism, Undying Call, Bladesworn Transformation, Vulkoor's Avatar
Requires All of: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Available to Paladin class level 18
You are sworn to fighting demons, devils, and other evil outsiders, driving them from Eberron forever. Your maximum number of Smites is increased by one, your anti-fear aura is improved, and you have +4 to attack Evil Outsiders and deal 4d6 additional damage with melee and unarmed attacks against them. You resist evil influences particularly well, gaining a +4 bonus to saves against spells and effects produced by Evil Outsiders

[Symar-FangofLloth]

You do need a faith line to qualify for tier3 enhancements.

My bad, then. My pally is multiclassed and only goes to tier2.

[Wuliev]

thanks for the wisdom.

as a player who has not made it to high levels yet, are action points a scarce thing since eveything costs like 4 of them? when you get to level 20, can you keep on ranking up, or is there a rank limit too?

[Symar-FangofLloth]

At level 20 you will have 80 AP, and can acquire no more beyond that.

Yes, AP is a scarce thing for some classes. Paladins being one of them.

[Tapsimanxer]

I went for Unyielding Sovereignty. i had undying on my elf pally too, and i can say that unyielding is way more useful. instant 1000 hp that recharges every 10 minutes, removes death effects after a raise, and removes some negative levels. i use it first before loh, so it has a chance to recharge. if youre a front liner, go with this imo. it's kinda hard to raise someone when youre in the thick of the mob.

[Kepli_Moonshadow]

thanks for the wisdom.

as a player who has not made it to high levels yet, are action points a scarce thing since eveything costs like 4 of them? when you get to level 20, can you keep on ranking up, or is there a rank limit too?

They are indeed finite, and the more valuable the enhancement, they more they cost ya (some even get up to 6). That is why it is important to plan your path carefully. The good news, is that when you whiff it, you can go back to your trainer, spend some gp, and do it over again (once every 3 days max)

EDIT: I have a lvl 9 elven pally with undying call, and it has proven useful in several occasions. Clerics run out of rez spells/components.....it just happens. Specially if your cleric is the one that bites it!

[Wuliev]

thanks again. i guess i'll start planning out my enhancements i guess.

[Arkat]

Undying Court necessary?

On Khyber? No, not really.

[honkuimushi]

Just to point out, The Undying Call is a lot cheaper than the later Paladin raise and it acts as a True Resurrection on elves. Paladins are pretty AP starved, so that's definately something to consider. If you're already using scimitars, the +1 is a nice bonus and it stacks with the Valenar enhancements.

But if you don't like it, you can go with the Soveriegn Host enhancements as well. You probably won't use the long sword bonuses much, but the 1000 hp heal every 10 minutes is nice.

[Wuliev]

it Does stack? Nice, then that makes undying courts better for pure paladins for their tier 3 prestige enhancements. Thanks for the input guys.

Somewhat unrelated: for a DPS build, is getting the divine sacrifice enhancement line worth getting? should i get the extra smite evil enhancements?

[Hjarki]

Somewhat unrelated: for a DPS build, is getting the divine sacrifice enhancement line worth getting? should i get the extra smite evil enhancements?

This question made me chuckle a bit. The only reason you take smite evil enhancements in the first place is so you can qualify for divine sacrifice. Smite Evil seems really impressive, but you only get one every two minutes (you can burn them in quick succession, though). In contrast, you can Divine Sacrifice every 4 (?) seconds so it contributes a ton more damage than Smite Evil ever could.

[PopeJual]

it Does stack? Nice, then that makes undying courts better for pure paladins for their tier 3 prestige enhancements. Thanks for the input guys.

Somewhat unrelated: for a DPS build, is getting the divine sacrifice enhancement line worth getting? should i get the extra smite evil enhancements?

Yes, yes, a thousand times Yes.

Divine Sacrifice is a wonderful thing. I haven't run across anything in the game yet that is immune or resistant to Light damage and I have run across things while leveling up that were only being hurt by the Divine Sacrifice. It made killing those few monsters fairly hard instead of 100% impossible. Even without counting those monsters, Divine Sacrifice is a great boost to damage per second.

Also, Exalted Smite is much better than the regular Smite Evil, so you want that. As for the Extra Smite enhancements, you need to take some of them as prerequisites for other Enhancements, so you'll end up taking them whether you want them or not. The "Extra" that you really want is Extra Lay On Hands.

Having an extra Hit Point Panic Button available in the form of more Lay on Hands is a beautiful thing.

[Stamp3de]

This question made me chuckle a bit. The only reason you take smite evil enhancements in the first place is so you can qualify for divine sacrifice. Smite Evil seems really impressive, but you only get one every two minutes (you can burn them in quick succession, though). In contrast, you can Divine Sacrifice every 4 (?) seconds so it contributes a ton more damage than Smite Evil ever could.

This response made me chuckle a bit. The above quote is horrible information. Disregard it.

A lvl 20 kotc pally will have 12 smites, 2 second cool down, per shrine to start off with, not including regens. Smites regen every 90 seconds. Exalted smite enhancements will add up to 2 crit multipliers along with crit ranges to ur smites. Critical smites will do over ~400 to over ~1000 dmg depending on ur weapon.

The correct answer it to max out both Exalted smite and Divine Sacrifice enhancements for max dmg.

[lord_of_rage]

On Khyber? No, not really.

on Khyber they are best to be avoided.

[Wuliev]

ok, so my next query is this:
I don't think i'll be able to qualify for divine might 4 with just getting the paladin enhancements; that would put my cha at 16.

My STR is base at 16. Should i plug 4 of my stat level buffs into CHA for the sake of Divine Might 4?
I was planning on what every melee dps build was planning on putting their buffs into : STR and a little CON...
i'm a free player, and it seems that it'll stay that way for a while.
Again, DPS build.

If i do put 4 into CHA, then should i put the other one into STR or WIS (my base wis is 10)
so the second question is: do i want to cast bless and protection from evil or do i want to get a minute melee edge?

is divine might 4 worth sacrificing pumping up my strength stat?
wait what's different about Khyber?

[lord_of_rage]

This question made me chuckle a bit. The only reason you take smite evil enhancements in the first place is so you can qualify for divine sacrifice. Smite Evil seems really impressive, but you only get one every two minutes (you can burn them in quick succession, though). In contrast, you can Divine Sacrifice every 4 (?) seconds so it contributes a ton more damage than Smite Evil ever could.

Man I always love it when you post and attempt to act like you have a clue. And almost always post wrong info. You should alternate between them. When es runs out you spam DS untill it regens. But It is 90seconds not 2min. Exalted smite 4 increases your crit range by 2 and your multiplier by 2. So those potential 1100+pt(1200+ wf) esos crits just arnt worth it huh? Wow. You have done it again.

OP DM4 gives you a +8 dmg to both hands if twf where str is less on the off hand.

[Wuliev]

so i should go chaladin, is what you're saying? there arent any feats or enhancements that i want to get that i wont qualify for with my current base str anyways, right? and there are always items that increase strength.
So should i put the extra stat point into wisdom so i can get it to eleven?

[DoctorWhofan]

so i should go chaladin, is what you're saying? there arent any feats or enhancements that i want to get that i wont qualify for with my current base str anyways, right? and there are always items that increase strength.
So should i put the extra stat point into wisdom so i can get it to eleven?

STR is proirity (at least a 16. 17 is better), then CHA (14+) then CON (14 at LEAST with a toughness feat).

Now herre is where the math gets blurry. If you are TWF DEX is important over WIS. you will sacrifice casting to carry two weapons. Or go the WIS route and go sword and board. Neither are wrong, but DPS is limited on the S &B but they can cast from level 4 and HAVE spell points without any SP special gear. It's what you want. With an elf, you have some flexiblity. Humans ironically not so much.

I have an elf and a hum pallys. Both are sword and board. Do I havethe tempest Ranger uber DPS? No, however I am flexible enough to raise the healer, emerganicy heal party members and carry the powerful auras they want.