The Classic Rocker [20 Bard Warchanter]

[Valindria]

I've been wondering, is there any disadvantage in adapting this build for a dwarf?

Offhand, I think a dwarf classic rocker would be quite close to a WF one. Is there anything which would make a dwarf classic rocker ultimately less effective than a human, a WF or a Horc one? It's just that I like the benefits of the dwarf race and I think they look cool.

Thanks for replies.

The Classic Rocker can really work for any race but some have more advantage than other. I think Horc and Human are the best choice. Horc for damage and Human for the exta feat. Dwarf using Great Axes would get the +2/+4 racial bonus which is nice as well as the +2 con vs others (exception being wf). So really if you want to go dwarf, do it. It should still be effective and hopefully fun.

[aristarchus1000]

I've been wondering, is there any disadvantage in adapting this build for a dwarf?

Offhand, I think a dwarf classic rocker would be quite close to a WF one. Is there anything which would make a dwarf classic rocker ultimately less effective than a human, a WF or a Horc one? It's just that I like the benefits of the dwarf race and I think they look cool.

Thanks for replies.

I think a dwarf classic rocker works well. You still get +4 damage with Greataxes. You won't do quite as much dps, but you will have more hitpoints (and bards have low enough hitpoints that it helps a lot, especially before you build your greensteel hp item) and the +5 spells stacking spell saves is pretty huge, in my opinion. Since you are able to self-heal, the major risk for you is being one-shot, and the extra hitpoints and higher reflex saves with minimize that risk.

It depends what you want. You lose some dps, but you gain durability and saves. As opposed to WF, you don't get healing penalties, although you do lose the immunities.

[gavijal]

Soo what 2 do? I can make cheep earth hp helm and buy ring with heavy fort until I gate claw bracers , or I can go for either expensive Min II helm with HF or with Con OP for mana?

[gavijal]

I made hp helm with conc op on it, heavy for is on the ring atm, so need to wait for some epics to fit heavy fort in

[Anthios888]

I made hp helm with conc op on it, heavy for is on the ring atm, so need to wait for some epics to fit heavy fort in

Sounds like a good plan!

At least Last Stand is a fast quest =)

[NaturalHazard]

hmm just got my wf toon shroud flagged ran shroud picked up all the shards i need, now do I make my con-opt item Sp or HP? im thinking of making sp, then making a cheap hp item maybe earthgrab and sloting it somewhere? Should I make a con op cloak?

oh yeah toons level 17, had a , 1 arcane 3 divines all three divines where melee combatants. Part 1 really fast, part 4 and 5 where really fast, blades came no where near close to us. I wonder how much of that dps could be attributed to me? if there where more offensive casting arcanes and divines I would of contributed less dps to party via songs. Also if there are more people twf does it mean your song contributes more as it adds damage to each swing so more swings = more damage from your songs?

[Anthios888]

hmm just got my wf toon shroud flagged ran shroud picked up all the shards i need, now do I make my con-opt item Sp or HP? im thinking of making sp, then making a cheap hp item maybe earthgrab and sloting it somewhere? Should I make a con op cloak?

oh yeah toons level 17, had a , 1 arcane 3 divines all three divines where melee combatants. Part 1 really fast, part 4 and 5 where really fast, blades came no where near close to us. I wonder how much of that dps could be attributed to me? if there where more offensive casting arcanes and divines I would of contributed less dps to party via songs. Also if there are more people twf does it mean your song contributes more as it adds damage to each swing so more swings = more damage from your songs?

1. I'd do a mana item first to get your UMD so you can heal scroll without thinking about it.

2. Mana works pretty well on cloak or boots. I think mine's on boots.

3. You're level 17, so I probably wouldn't take all of the credit for the DPS, but I'm sure you contributed more than the average level 17 bard that doesn't feel like they need to heal or melee =)

4. The more twf, the more your damage song contributes since they swing their weapons more often. But, of course, 2HF benefits from you a lot, too, because they get 5% doublestrike from your recklessness on all of their mainhand attacks. Two weapon fighting only gets that doublestrike on the main hand, so it's more like 3-4% dps increase from that song for them.

[NaturalHazard]

1. I'd do a mana item first to get your UMD so you can heal scroll without thinking about it.

2. Mana works pretty well on cloak or boots. I think mine's on boots.

3. You're level 17, so I probably wouldn't take all of the credit for the DPS, but I'm sure you contributed more than the average level 17 bard that doesn't feel like they need to heal or melee =)

4. The more twf, the more your damage song contributes since they swing their weapons more often. But, of course, 2HF benefits from you a lot, too, because they get 5% doublestrike from your recklessness on all of their mainhand attacks. Two weapon fighting only gets that doublestrike on the main hand, so it's more like 3-4% dps increase from that song for them.

ok thanks im going to go with the greensteel cloak, and sp, yep more chance to umd those recon scrolls. Boots I often wear fire storm greaves?

[gavijal]

Just wondering, what songs are you singing mostly? What is with fortification when I sing Inspire Recklessness? Should I sing it in boss fights?

[Sjiggie]

I have a little different gear setup on my bard:

Helm: Helm of the Red Dragon,
Goggles: ConOpp Goggles/Tharne's (Swap as needed)
Cloak: Epic Envenomed Cloak (Slotted Toughness)
Necklace: Verik's Necklace (Still need torc/shintao but this set gives me to-hit aswell for in epics)
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune (waiting to get litany to replace the head)
Gloves: Epic Charged Gauntlets
Bracers: GS MinII hp Bracers
Belt: Proof Against Poison of GFL (Waiting on either ravager/encrusted ring to swap that belt in)
Boots: Epic Boots of Corrosion
Ring 1: Veriks Ring
Ring 2: Ring of Thelis (just using for Wiz VII right now waiting on ravager/encrusted ring to take this slot)
Armor: Marilith Chain

Its a little different then the one discribed in the OP but works very well for me

[Anthios888]

Just wondering, what songs are you singing mostly? What is with fortification when I sing Inspire Recklessness? Should I sing it in boss fights?

All of them, Recklessness included. Recklessness is uber =)

[gavijal]

Yesterday I made my dragontouched armor, I put +3 cha skills with Eldritch Runes (as my first gs item is hp item so I need umd boost). So now my UMD is 37 with GH. I have cloack from von6 with +3 cha skills so that would be 40. But cloack I use atm is +6 cha. What should i put on Tempest place? Should I go with +6 cha so I can free cloack spot or something else? Any ideas ?

Btw there is new classic rocker lvl 20 in town (Ghallanda)

[Therbin]

I have another question:

If I lowered the STR of the Human build from 18 to 16, would this affect the DPS greatly?

'Coz I'm kinda one of those people who don't want to use too many build points on a single stat trying to buy 17 or 18. I'd be happier putting it in another skill. And in this stat spread, I placed it in INT. So here's what I'm thinking:

Human 28 pt.
STR - 16 (all level-ups here)
DEX - 8
CON - 14
INT- 14
WIS - 8
CHA - 14

So I basically kept everything else except STR and INT.

My reasons:

1) With this stat spread, and because of the boost to INT as compared to the original build, I'll be able to get full ranks of UMD, Perform, Concentration, Haggle, Hide, Move Silently, Balance, Jump and Tumble.
2) In my opinion, being very good in all these ranks is worth the -1 stat bonus loss to STR specially since I'm okay with losing a bit of DPS (sorta like the build that increases CHA instead of STR).
3) And also, I like being able to solo when the occasion calls for it, and I think having full stealthing ranks while keeping full balance, jump and tumble ranks, helps a lot.
4) In my newbie analysis, I don't think losing 2 strength will change much else with the Human Classic Rocker build (still have the same feats, enhancements, UMD and Perform results, etc.).
5) I've seen Bard builds with 14 starting STR (with level-ups placed in CHA) do respectable DPS.
6) As stated, I'd prefer not to use 6 build points to increase a stat (STR 16 -> 18) by 2 when I can use those same 6 build points to increase another useful stat by 6 (INT 8 -> 14).

But that's just my humble opinion.

So... what do you guys think? Any downsides I might have not thought of?

[gavijal]

Yea, 14 con is 2 low, u dont need int, put 18 i str. with this u will not be good in any, 12 cha is enough

[Therbin]

Yea, 14 con is 2 low, u dont need int, put 18 i str. with this u will not be good in any, 12 cha is enough

I'm just following the Human Classic Rocker build posted by the OP.

And if I may ask, can you point out to me what exactly an 18 Str character gets that a 16 Str character does not.

[Kmnh]

int isn't really that useful on a pure bard.

-1 damage won't affect your DPS that much, but the -1 to-hit will. keep STR maxed out.

[Junts]

I'm just following the Human Classic Rocker build posted by the OP.

And if I may ask, can you point out to me what exactly an 18 Str character gets that a 16 Str character does not.

The big struggle of a melee bard is hitting well. The strength bracket is an important +1 to hit. Many people tr their melee bards to fighter lives just for a passive past life that provides +1 to hit each time. Its a big deal.

The original post does not involve a 14 base int. Its got a base 8. You'll be happier that way, trust us.

[Therbin]

The big struggle of a melee bard is hitting well. The strength bracket is an important +1 to hit. Many people tr their melee bards to fighter lives just for a passive past life that provides +1 to hit each time. Its a big deal.

The original post does not involve a 14 base int. Its got a base 8. You'll be happier that way, trust us.

I was referring to CON and CHA. The other poster said 14 was too low for CON when it's the one posted by the OP. And also CHA.

[Junts]

I was referring to CON and CHA. The other poster said 14 was too low for CON when it's the one posted by the OP. And also CHA.

14 is acceptable but more is better. My build is 20 str 17 con 8 cha, half orc. A new build will want more cha because it has less access to tomes and umd gear - later on, you can reduce your charisma because you wont need more than 39 umd. This lets you get more hit points with your con if you wish.

[Therbin]

Also, in another thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=159539) OP mentioned the following:

"Think about it this way. At most, this build could have 7 more strength -- 5 from levels, 2 from starting point allocation. Obviously, 7 strength is a lot, so I don't call myself a "DPS focused bard", but you can still do a lot with a 26-32 STR and a 2-handed weapon"

referring to the stat spread:

"Starting ability stats (32 point build)
STR: 16
DEX: 8
CON: 14
INT: 8
WIS: 8
CHA: 18 + all level-up points"

Now, the stat spread I'm suggesting also starts with 16 Str -- except I will give it those 5 level-ups instead of putting them in Charisma. I guess all I'm saying is if it's okay for that build to take a 7 str hit and still be able to noticeably DPS, maybe mine which takes just a 2 Str hit, but still geared and built as a Classic Rocker DPS, can put out DPS that's not very far from one which starts with 18 Str.

In exchange, I'll have full use of several skills (maybe it adds to the fun, or I just prefer being able to do a lot of skills well, which adds to my enjoyment of the game... specially when I solo).