The Classic Rocker [20 Bard Warchanter]

[Vanddrake]

Hey guys, I'm currently leveling a bard using the Classic Rocker build. So far it has been a blast to play, and currently I'm at level 8. I just have a question regarding the use of the maximize feat. Wouldn't just having Empowered Healing be enough to improve my healing? I've never leveled a dedicated healing char, but IMO it seems like taking maximize might be overkill when having empowered healing already. I could be wrong though, I'd just like your input as to why both maximize and empowered healing are needed in this build.

[voodoogroves]

5: Those axeblock bracers from Korthos go further than you'd think. And, warforged does get access to DR enhancements that are very helpful at low levels.

The Blademark's Docent (ML5) is super awesome for many lower level 'forged builds ... Invulnerability and Lifeshield ... bonus. Plus with a lucky green hat, you can be pretty green all over on top of a purple base color ... totally Mardi-ing the Gras ...

[Anthios888]

The Blademark's Docent (ML5) is super awesome for many lower level 'forged builds ... Invulnerability and Lifeshield ... bonus. Plus with a lucky green hat, you can be pretty green all over on top of a purple base color ... totally Mardi-ing the Gras ...

Yeah, great point. I was kind of speaking from a very early point of view (level 4) assuming the player had not acquired gear like this. But it would be a worthwhile pack to run for pretty much any warforged player.

[Anthios888]

Hey guys, I'm currently leveling a bard using the Classic Rocker build. So far it has been a blast to play, and currently I'm at level 8. I just have a question regarding the use of the maximize feat. Wouldn't just having Empowered Healing be enough to improve my healing? I've never leveled a dedicated healing char, but IMO it seems like taking maximize might be overkill when having empowered healing already. I could be wrong though, I'd just like your input as to why both maximize and empowered healing are needed in this build.

Hey.

I've played many healers since I started DDO, and I will always choose maximize over empower healing -- especially on a bard.

Much of this consideration is about high level play, where monsters deal a lot of damage to you and small mass cures just might not cut it. Bards have only two mass cure spells, so if they are on timer, you can't heal the party during that time. Groups tend to take a lot of 'spike' damage all at once.

Another consideration on a build like this is that the more keystrokes you need to spend healing, the less you will be able to swing your weapons, reducing overall DPS.

I know it is really hard starting off on a healing bard (at your levels, wands are about as good as most of the **** you can throw anyway). I tend to focus on the buffs and preventative healing (I carry a lot of stoneskin and stuff). But, it can definitely be done.

I wish you luck.

[Emizand]

Lo Anthois,

Just wondering how you see half orc and tier II war chanter playing out on this build. Have a dwarven version at the moment with a level of fighter splash for martial weapons. However am considering TRing into a Horc, staying pure and using masters touch till lvl 12.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Emi

[Kza]

Lo Anthois,

Just wondering how you see half orc and tier II war chanter playing out on this build. Have a dwarven version at the moment with a level of fighter splash for martial weapons. However am considering TRing into a Horc, staying pure and using masters touch till lvl 12.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Emi

Consider go warforged as warchanter, you can have your doublestrike song up 100% of the time and still be at full fortification. But ofcourse horc will be good also :-)

[rexservorum]

I rolled a human Classic Rocker about a week ago, and he's already level 11, so it's pretty clear that I'm enjoying it. I especially enjoy surprising those who misunderstood the capabilities of bards until I'd whirled through their groups. Yes, I can buff the snot out of them, and with a good group this makes elite quests feel like normal. But if the rest of the group sucks, I can top kills, and once in a while even when the group doesn't suck. I get the occasional o_O when I saunter over and pass strength checks while the other melee are staring at their hands. Soloing is a breeze and a blast, and I gather that it's going to get even better. The best part? From what I've read, I've barely scratched the surface compared to what this build can do later on.

I'm one of those altitis patients who's got 8 characters sitting in the 10-15 range, but I have a feeling that this bard is going to be my first to 20.

Just thought/hoped you might enjoy hearing that someone is playing and enjoying this build, and of course you have my huge "kudos" for making it and putting it out there for us to use. Anyone who happens to read this who's waffling: roll one! I'm not sure about later on, but up to the mid-game you'll never miss those fighter levels.

[valorik]

Lo Anthois,

Just wondering how you see half orc and tier II war chanter playing out on this build. Have a dwarven version at the moment with a level of fighter splash for martial weapons. However am considering TRing into a Horc, staying pure and using masters touch till lvl 12.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Emi

Hey Emiz, I currently play the wf version of this build, and I've thought about this a fair amount.

There are a couple advantages to the half orc version, if you're a newer player then it might be considerably better for you, it's got the highest dps non-twitching (unless the halforc "twitch movement" turns out to be as good as other races). It's also got a very strong to hit, though if you max the power attack line it comes out evenly with humans.

Obviously warforged have advantages in their extra fort, which allows them to negate the disadvantages of song of recklessness. Personally I think people are worrying a bit to much about that 10% less fort, I've run raids without heavy fort for both testing and stupidity purposes (haggle ftw) and I came through alive, I"m sure that slight bit of spike damage isn't going to wipe raids on a daily basis. That said warforged also have the advantage of twitch combat, which in exchange for a movement penalty to attack (-4) gives a 15%ish attack speed bump.

Compared to the human build the half orc loses versatility for a fair amount of dps, basically it comes out to somethign like this.

Half orc
+'s
+4 strength
+4 weapon damage enhancements
power attack enhancements


-'s
No twitching (possibly, until we get some definitive testing this could be a non factor)
Comparatively low hitpoints
-2 cha
-2 int

Human
+'s
Empower healing (I really enjoy this, but it's not a make or break your build kind of thing)
+1 strength
+1 con or cha
Healing amp
+0-30 hp depending on your enhancements
Twitch combat

-'s
none, but also has the least bonuses

Warforged
+'s
Warforged traits- repairability etc
Twitch combat with power attack enhancements (lowest to hit of the three)
+25% fort
~30-60 hp

-'s
Lowest to hit
Healing amp -'s, can make this build very difficult to play
-2 cha

Really half orcs are a VERY strong race if dps is your main priority (which is a huge part of this build) you lose a lot of survivability over the warforged, and some versatility over the human, but I'm very strongly considering making my warforged a half orc, just taking the wait and see approach for a while.

[Emizand]

Thanks Valorik.

I have a dwarven version with 1 level of fighter. Currently at level 15. Its a toss up between TRing this toon or my staff build into a HO. Dont want to HO's from the off. Will play with the builds a bit and see what I can come up with.

[valorik]

Thanks Valorik.

I have a dwarven version with 1 level of fighter. Currently at level 15. Its a toss up between TRing this toon or my staff build into a HO. Dont want to HO's from the off. Will play with the builds a bit and see what I can come up with.

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Half-orc isn't going to make dwarf any worse though, so you can always spend some time with this character at cap, get some gear, experience etc, and then decide what's best.

[Veileira]

Hi, I made a bard using your template here. She's still very low level. I'm just wondering why you picked healing feats instead of the THF feats, or are those not worth it?

Thanks.

[Postumus]

Really half orcs are a VERY strong race if dps is your main priority (which is a huge part of this build) you lose a lot of survivability over the warforged, and some versatility over the human, but I'm very strongly considering making my warforged a half orc, just taking the wait and see approach for a while.

But the key question I want answered regarding race: Which race has the best mullet?


It is 'classic rocker' after all. I want to look like one as well.

[Anthios888]

Thank you for all the feedback on The Classic Rocker. I'll try to answer a few of the most common questions.

Half-Orc Fad

I gotta admit it. I lack the zeal many D&D players have for their beloved peenpee worlds. When I heard a new race was coming out, I thought, "ugh, now everyone will cry doom, complain nonstop, and bump every build and tell me I have to make it as an sorc orc or fairy or whatever… I can't stand the hype! blah blah blah!"

OK, so in this case, half orcs are pretty awesome and mesh with the goals well. When the final release notes for Half-Orcs are finished, I will flesh out a Half-orc version of this build more completely. Needless to say, the race fits very well:

• Fleshie means better healing
• More strength (4 str) adds to-hit and 6 damage a swing (before multipliers)
• Two handed fighting damage increase (2 hit, 4 damage) rivals every other race
• Power attack (-3 hit, +3 damag)
• Few penalties (-2 cha, -1 feat)

Like Cogs mentioned, the new race will suit the build very well because it is similar to human with many of warforged benefits.

Warforged can use Inspire Recklesssness (5% melee alacrity for -10% fortification) without any fear of being critically hit. My personal belief is that I will use this song in nearly every situation on every character. The chances of being critically hit are low enough (you're still blocking 90% of all crits). Especially on a bard that will not be in

Feats: Two Handed Fighting vs. Healing

For many builds, I would absolutely recommend these 3 feats because of the additional DPS they provide on glancing blows.

The Classic Rocker has a dual focus and can fill a hybrid role in parties -- that is why I felt it was worth sharing with the community. Along with its excellent DPS for a bard, it is the warchanter with heals (hjeals!).

On an individual level, many players find it worthwhile to always have a quickened heal button, and find that especially rewarding on a DPS character with haste and displacement. I would never pigeonhole this character into a "healbot" role as there are better healing builds out there, but the Rocker is healing capable when desired. My guildie, Valorik (AKA Cogs on Ghallanda) capped the character in the last few weeks and has successfully solo healed many raids and epic quests. Some players -- especially those new to healing in general -- have found it hard to jump right into this role, and understandably.

Healing off your mana bar is, at minimum, a way to start reducing your own costs, solo a little, bridge the gap to nofail heal scrolls, and help the party a little. If players choose to pursue this facet of the character, they can heal quests like The Shroud, take bases in the Vault of Night, or provide for speed run epics by being both the fullest bard and the healer (and don't forget DPS!).

This kind of flexibility seems to be worth a couple of feats where everything else about the character is specced for DPS. Other than buffs, you have no other competition for your blue bar besides healing.

A player wishing to eek out the maximum DPS from a two handed fighting bard, or a player unwilling or unable to fill a self-healing or party healing role can easily take this template and substitute the three Two Handed Fighting feats. Drop empower healing, maximize spell, and quicken (or, if nonhuman, extend, max, and quicken) to fit these in.

In lieu of the feats, a bard can master "twitch" fighting style to maximize the number of total attacks, at the cost of glancing blows. A simple forum search should yield threads and videos about this technique. Overall, this will increase this build's DPS significantly if a player chooses to use it.

Healing Tips for Warchanters (or anyone!)

Obviously there is a learning curve to healing with a smaller mana bar. Especially with the additional mana spellsingers get next update, the idea of a healing warchanter is unpopular. Remember that warchanters did not actually get weaker; spellsingers simply got more mana to work with.

All bards have mana issues at low levels (1-10) because they are trying to keep the party happy, buffed, and hasted. If you have the means, don't be afraid to use consumables. Bards get free wand usage and with wand enhancements, they can heal quite well. Many of us forget these exist. Level 1 - cure light wounds. Level 3 - cure moderate wounds. Level 5 -c ure serious wounds (House J). Leve 7 - cure critical wounds (house J). Level 9 and 30+ umd - heal scrolls. No more "sorry OOM" when the guy next to you is bleeding to death.

Devotion and ardor. Don't tell me your heals suck if you haven't taken the care to equip a devotion item (available on hat or ring, including several named items) or ardor (widely available on potions and clickies, and actually more potent than devotion). I carry several superior ardor 6 clickies on all of my bards for the increase to heals.

At high levels, mass heals trump single-target heals. This is bards' strength. You don't have the heal spell, so it makes sense to use mass heals to get the whole party and a consumable like a scroll to get the individual running off ahead. More bang for your buck.

It also gets much more viable to become a main healer as you tack on mana-generating equipment (torc, spell storing ring, twisted talisman, archivist's necklace, vile blasphemy, concordant opposition… there are many sources these days).

Finally… let them die. If you're in some lowbie quest, it's never your duty to apologize for other people's bad play. You can't heal stupid.*

This doctrine does not apply when you are grouped with me. Hjeal meeee!! *zergs off*

Mullets

Human males have wicked mullets. But I think half-orcs have a lot of potential.

[Darkrok]

Thank you for all the feedback on The Classic Rocker. I'll try to answer a few of the most common questions.

*snip the rest*

Outstanding post. It's uncanny how much we think alike on a lot of this stuff. Especially on the THF vs healing feats issue. This build's strength isn't from its melee damage. It's from the fact that it can solo-heal stuff like the shroud in the hands of a well-equipped, skilled player while still providing passable dps as well as max bard songs.

I think that U7 really puts the WF'd version of this on top. I also think that it makes the human version practically beg to go Virtuoso instead. You can dump a feat for a cost now of only 4 extra AP's (we'd have to take Extra Song III now for Virt II). Humans get the extra feat as it is. You could legitimately go THF/iTHF while still maintaining the same healing power of the non-human Classic Rockers. And on a human sporting some healing amp the healing song is going to make for a powerful augment to the blue-bar healing.

[Anthios888]

Outstanding post. It's uncanny how much we think alike on a lot of this stuff. Especially on the THF vs healing feats issue. This build's strength isn't from its melee damage. It's from the fact that it can solo-heal stuff like the shroud in the hands of a well-equipped, skilled player while still providing passable dps as well as max bard songs.

I think that U7 really puts the WF'd version of this on top. I also think that it makes the human version practically beg to go Virtuoso instead. You can dump a feat for a cost now of only 4 extra AP's (we'd have to take Extra Song III now for Virt II). Humans get the extra feat as it is. You could legitimately go THF/iTHF while still maintaining the same healing power of the non-human Classic Rockers. And on a human sporting some healing amp the healing song is going to make for a powerful augment to the blue-bar healing.

I think a warforged version makes a lot of sense if you a player very worried about forification, but what does virtuoso have to do with this?

Virtuoso I and II are both super bad -- expending a song for a single-target CC is kind of pathetic anyway, and it isn't even permanent -- it has a chance to break on hit.

Warchanter II has gotten tons of negative attention because its song gives -10% fort and 5% melee alacrity.

Even with a fleshie, I will take that trade off every time. Getting hit with spike damage one in every fifty to a hundred attacks is only a big deal in a few situations. On a two-handed build, Inspire Recklessness is 5% DPS across the board. I don't change every build I have because of the possibility of getting hit with an unexpected enemy spell for 100 every now and then. Playing smart solves most of this issue. As DPS goes up, the need for healing goes down even more quickly because enemies get fewer attacks.

So use it, don't use it. It's your preference. Virtuoso has nothing to do with it.

But anyone runs off and re-specs, think about a mass, undispellable GH song. That saves you -tons- of mana that you can spend healing. Extended greater Heroism costs 40 mana apiece... even if you only were gonna hit half the raid party with it, that's 240 SP. Warchanter II also gives you medium armor (read: marilith chain) and extra HP. Very nice.

[maddmatt70]

I think a warforged version makes a lot of sense if you a player very worried about forification, but what does virtuoso have to do with this?

Virtuoso I and II are both super bad -- expending a song for a single-target CC is kind of pathetic anyway, and it isn't even permanent -- it has a chance to break on hit.

Warchanter II has gotten tons of negative attention because its song gives -10% fort and 5% melee alacrity.

Even with a fleshie, I will take that trade off every time. Getting hit with spike damage one in every fifty to a hundred attacks is only a big deal in a few situations. On a two-handed build, Inspire Recklessness is 5% DPS across the board. I don't change every build I have because of the possibility of getting hit with an unexpected enemy spell for 100 every now and then. Playing smart solves most of this issue. As DPS goes up, the need for healing goes down even more quickly because enemies get fewer attacks.

So use it, don't use it. It's your preference. Virtuoso has nothing to do with it.

But anyone runs off and re-specs, think about a mass, undispellable GH song. That saves you -tons- of mana that you can spend healing. Extended greater Heroism costs 40 mana apiece... even if you only were gonna hit half the raid party with it, that's 240 SP. Warchanter II also gives you medium armor (read: marilith chain) and extra HP. Very nice.

Agreed that Virtuoso is terrible however I would like to see what exactly the Virtuoso song that heals the party does (Virtuoso II Song)? If it were the equivalent of lets just say the old radiant servant second tier pre aura for instance then well Virtuoso got alot more interesting. I do not know if anybody tested it out on Lammania.

I was disappointed on the three second tier pres the only build that got stronger is the 14 bard 6 fighter inti-bard warchanter everything else no change from what I can tell.

[Anthios888]

I was disappointed on the three second tier pres the only build that got stronger is the 14 bard 6 fighter inti-bard warchanter everything else no change from what I can tell.

Everything got stronger, just not by as much or in the same ways that we talked about before. Just changing out the Arcane Spell Failure augment on my bard's Epic Marilith Chain will likely translate into more hit/dam down the line as I am able to fit in more DPS equipment.

Likewise, a 3-5% DPS increase from the doublestrike song is substantial (I imagine around 10-15 DPS on a pure build like this... comparable to giving Ninja Spy II to everyone in the party). It's just not as sexy as something that gives bigger numbers, like Kensei. Really, let's be honest that what we all want is bigger numbers.

I guess it's also good to keep in mind that there is still another tier... I am just disappointed it was not available to us this time around.

In the end, whether this build is presented as a warchanter is not something I will change, as the PrE still gives wonderful party buffs even if nothing else about it changes. DR/5, mass greater heroism, +9 damage song, 5% doublestrike... I'll take it.

[Darkrok]

Everything got stronger, just not by as much or in the same ways that we talked about before. Just changing out the Arcane Spell Failure augment on my bard's Epic Marilith Chain will likely translate into more hit/dam down the line as I am able to fit in more DPS equipment.

Likewise, a 3-5% DPS increase from the doublestrike song is substantial (I imagine around 10-15 DPS on a pure build like this... comparable to giving Ninja Spy II to everyone in the party). It's just not as sexy as something that gives bigger numbers, like Kensei. Really, let's be honest that what we all want is bigger numbers.

I guess it's also good to keep in mind that there is still another tier... I am just disappointed it was not available to us this time around.

In the end, whether this build is presented as a warchanter is not something I will change, as the PrE still gives wonderful party buffs even if nothing else about it changes. DR/5, mass greater heroism, +9 damage song, 5% doublestrike... I'll take it.

I like Virtuoso on the human version for the strong soloing you get from Enthrallment and the healing over time song. The single-target dance song is unmitigated junk. Your build is outstanding as Warchanter but it's flexible enough to do any of the three PrE's and still be a great addition to any party.

[Darkrok]

Agreed that Virtuoso is terrible however I would like to see what exactly the Virtuoso song that heals the party does (Virtuoso II Song)? If it were the equivalent of lets just say the old radiant servant second tier pre aura for instance then well Virtuoso got alot more interesting. I do not know if anybody tested it out on Lammania.

I was disappointed on the three second tier pres the only build that got stronger is the 14 bard 6 fighter inti-bard warchanter everything else no change from what I can tell.

It ticks faster than the radiant servant aura and hits for around 2-6 per tick from the last reports that I saw.

[Veileira]

Thank you Anthios888. I would give you rep if I could. My bard is only level 5 and I'm having a blast with her!