The Classic Rocker [20 Bard Warchanter]

[DarkRadiance]

Here's my approach to healing.

25% life gone: top off with cure moderate wand
50% life gone: use cure serious damage
75% life gone: use cure serious damage, top off with cure moderate wand

Probably not the safest, but I do advertise myself as a backup healer

[RumbIe]

First I love your builds. Thanks for taking the time to put them together and post them. I started a Big Rock Candy Mnt build and I'm loving it so far.

I have also started the classic rocker build here and I have a question about adding either a splash of monk or 2 rogue for evasion. I have 2 level 18's that serve as my "mains" off and on. One is an Exploiter build and the other a PM with rogue splash and I love having evasion. While this character is only level 6 right now I almost feel like I will be missing out on it every time a fireball blasts me in the face.

My question is, is it worth it to add one level of monk or 2 of rogue at some point and what is the advantage I would gain vs. what I loose with level 20 capstone and is it worth it. Also could I still do so or is it too late? Since it's a bard build I don't have to worry about unlocking UMD by picking rogue first.

I know for Monk I'd gain evasion with just one level and also a slight AC boost from WIS, but I won't likely get a meaningful AC anyways so I'm not sure it's worth it. Or if I splash 2 rogue I'll get sneak attack to add to dps and evasion I guess.

To let you know my style of play I love my Exploiter and being able to add dps on the front line, but I've always loved having a bard in the group for buffs and healing help. That's why I went warchanter over SS. Given this as my play style any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Valindria]

First I love your builds. Thanks for taking the time to put them together and post them. I started a Big Rock Candy Mnt build and I'm loving it so far.

I have also started the classic rocker build here and I have a question about adding either a splash of monk or 2 rogue for evasion. I have 2 level 18's that serve as my "mains" off and on. One is an Exploiter build and the other a PM with rogue splash and I love having evasion. While this character is only level 6 right now I almost feel like I will be missing out on it every time a fireball blasts me in the face.

My question is, is it worth it to add one level of monk or 2 of rogue at some point and what is the advantage I would gain vs. what I loose with level 20 capstone and is it worth it. Also could I still do so or is it too late? Since it's a bard build I don't have to worry about unlocking UMD by picking rogue first.

I know for Monk I'd gain evasion with just one level and also a slight AC boost from WIS, but I won't likely get a meaningful AC anyways so I'm not sure it's worth it. Or if I splash 2 rogue I'll get sneak attack to add to dps and evasion I guess.

To let you know my style of play I love my Exploiter and being able to add dps on the front line, but I've always loved having a bard in the group for buffs and healing help. That's why I went warchanter over SS. Given this as my play style any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Monk is not viable due to the lawful/non-lawful class requirements (also paladin not allowed).

Evasion is less worth it on this toon since you dump dex. You could do 18/2 if you wanted evasion but evasion does nothing on a failed save. Evasion bards tend to go TWF and start with 15 dex. There are tons of builds out there if that is what you are looking for.

[RumbIe]

Thanks. I forgot about the Monk alignment issue.

As for reflex saves I guess since this is a STR based build there is no "Insightful Reflexes" type feat to take to use another attribute to boost the save. I just feel naked without evasion is all and worried it's going to cause me some harm later on down the road. Like not wearing a heavy fortification item would or something

[RumbIe]

I have a question about what 2 handed weapon to take as an AP cost proficiency. On the first page you list a Min II Falchion, but the Epic Sword of Shadows in a Great Sword. Don't Great Swords produce more damage per swing? Why not take Great Sword and make Great Sword Min II? Is it more to do with crit modifier why Falchion is chosen?

Also do you usually craft a Lit II as well for damage output when not Harry beating? Or does another weapon for a bard make sense. Do you make it a true Lit II with just damage modifiers or do you keep the con stat?

Thanks

[Nomical]

I have a question about what 2 handed weapon to take as an AP cost proficiency. On the first page you list a Min II Falchion, but the Epic Sword of Shadows in a Great Sword. Don't Great Swords produce more damage per swing? Why not take Great Sword and make Great Sword Min II? Is it more to do with crit modifier why Falchion is chosen?

Also do you usually craft a Lit II as well for damage output when not Harry beating? Or does another weapon for a bard make sense. Do you make it a true Lit II with just damage modifiers or do you keep the con stat?

Thanks

The epic sword of shadows does much more damage than any other two-handed weapon, including lightning II. So, there is not a good reason to craft a lightning II for this build if you're able to get an epic sword of shadows.

The reason she crafted a min II falchion is because the greensteel falchion does more dps on this build than a min II great sword. You can take greatsword proficiency and just use master's touch on your min II falchion when you need to bypass DR. You can also always respec your action points, so if you don't have an epic sword of shadows yet, you could take falchion and respec once you get it.

This is what Rocka suggests on the first page on the half-orc post where it says: War Chanter Falchion Training* *You can switch if you get an epic sword of shadows.

[jestrua]

I am playing a build with a similar focus--buffs, heals, backup DPS. I chose Halfling and took the Dragonmark line instead of Maximize/Empower/Quicken. I won't say that I regret it quite yet, but if I was rolling again I would probably choose this build (modified for halfling, I like Hero's Companion that much) and still might if I ever get around to TRing.

Despite the differences, it looks like they are similar enough for me to say that this build is a lot of fun to play. You definitely won't feel like some dead weight being dragged along for nothing but your tiny guitar.

i do not see a big deal with heros companion . chances are if someone is goin got use an item for profeiceny they already added what they need to use the weapon . an dif they dont have it they probably dont have a weapon to use even if you gave them the heros any how lol

[valorik]

i do not see a big deal with heros companion . chances are if someone is goin got use an item for profeiceny they already added what they need to use the weapon . an dif they dont have it they probably dont have a weapon to use even if you gave them the heros any how lol

Heroes companion gives bonus attack, damage, ac, and (I think) saves ...

[reddoormedia]

I have this build at 20 and am undecided whether to TR her. What would be the real benefit? Also would it make sense to TR to bard again?

[Anthios888]

I have this build at 20 and am undecided whether to TR her. What would be the real benefit? Also would it make sense to TR to bard again?

Reason 1: Half orc.

Reason 2: If you wanted to tack on a bunch of fighter/monk lives or something for DPS or barbarian/paladin levels for survivability, you might feel compelled to TR. This is not a lot of outcome for your time (and certainly not needed to be effective), but if you are one of us who play too much you might like something like that for the sake of perfection.

As a general rule for almost any build, the uberness from better gear and weapons, epic stuff, raid loot, and skill honed playing a lot is far more than anything you will see from a single TR, unless you were super gimped to begin with.

[Otherworld]

Just noticed I got 6 spare ap at lvl 20.
Any ideas where to put it?
Been thinking another rank in improved recovery, or maybe song magic 4.

EDIT: currently took song magic 4 and spell pen 1 (reasoning: song magic grants a bigger healing increase than imp recovery for fewer ap)

[Valindria]

Just noticed I got 6 spare ap at lvl 20.
Any ideas where to put it?
Been thinking another rank in improved recovery, or maybe song magic 4.

EDIT: currently took song magic 4 and spell pen 1 (reasoning: song magic grants a bigger healing increase than imp recovery for fewer ap)

Did you take the bard capstone? I didn't have issues spending my AP but mine is a HOrc.

[Otherworld]

Did you take the bard capstone? I didn't have issues spending my AP but mine is a HOrc.

Yes I counted the capstone. I actually have 8 points (-2 capstone) = 6.
I also reran numbers in the planner and got the same situation so I didn't make any mistake.

EDIT: Noting that I'm using the human version.

[Valindria]

Adjust to preference but here is what I quickly did for human:


Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Greataxe Training
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III

[Anthios888]

Here's how I would do it. Lingering song is soooo handy and makes being a bard much less agitating. I would consider dropping lingering IV for human healing amp II.

Song magic IV is an absolute imo. Wand mastery IV also really important. As much as I like the healing crits, the better base % will be better for you. It's hard enough to heal on a bard without your enhancements backing you up.

ENHANCEMENTS:

Bard Inspired Attack III
Bard Inspired Bravery III
Bard Inspired Damage III
Bard Lingering Song IV
Bard Warchanter II
Greataxe Training
Bard Musical Prodigy
Human Adaptability Strength I
Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Human Improved Recovery I
Bard Energy of the Music II
Racial Toughness III
Bard Song Magic IV
Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

Original post fixed to include the capstone.

[RumbIe]

Sorry bit of a nab question maybe but first bard roll. Why take Maximize at level 9 if you don't recommend any attack(damage) spells? Doesn't maximize only add damage output at the cost of more sp so if you don't use any damage spells (wind) as shown in the first post on the build then why choose this? Does it play another role?

If this is no longer chosen or you do take damage spells what is switched out for either the feat or the spell?

Thanks

[Anthios888]

Sorry bit of a nab question maybe but first bard roll. Why take Maximize at level 9 if you don't recommend any attack(damage) spells? Doesn't maximize only add damage output at the cost of more sp so if you don't use any damage spells (wind) as shown in the first post on the build then why choose this? Does it play another role?

If this is no longer chosen or you do take damage spells what is switched out for either the feat or the spell?

Thanks

Maximize feat is the key source of amping your healing spells, such as cure critical wounds, mass cure light wounds, and mass cure moderate.

[RumbIe]

Thanks. Never played a healer so had no idea. I always assumed it was Empower Healing that was the only feat that helped healing. The Maximize Feat says that "damage" spells deal double damage with this. I assume then by using maximize now my healing spells will all be double the healing?

Also I noticed in your revision that you dropped Bard Charisma I. Wouldn't this put your CHA to an odd number now from your original build?

[Anthios888]

Thanks. Never played a healer so had no idea. I always assumed it was Empower Healing that was the only feat that helped healing. The Maximize Feat says that "damage" spells deal double damage with this. I assume then by using maximize now my healing spells will all be double the healing?

Also I noticed in your revision that you dropped Bard Charisma I. Wouldn't this put your CHA to an odd number now from your original build?

If you have Litany of the Dead, but not a +1 exceptional cha item. Obviously, take or don't take this AP depending on what your charisma is =0

[Oddo-Fr]

Just a thank you for your clear and helpful build.
Going with the human flavored one (more Feats to enjoy the chocolate cake with!) and hope to enjoy discovering Eberron!