The Classic Rocker [20 Bard Warchanter]

[Valindria]

But effectively how much is the difference between have thf line or not?I got comparable kills with other melees in epics and raid now...I could just heal with quicken and an ardor pot without maximize...and more often maybe...without renunce dps. with a dt 10% 20% i prolly heal myself 150+ with a cure critical!
For greater heals well we have umd heal scrolls

What do you think about the plaza upgraded set for a bard?+2tohit/damage and greater potency 6 looks good!or you have better setups?I have also a pirate hat with sup potency 6 and balance +15 I could use

With out any feats you get 20% GBS on your 1st and 4th swing. With full THF you get 50% on swings 1,3, and 4. Both are while not moving. The 3rd attack is added with GTHF so generally it's an all or nothing thing.

Say your base number hits for 40, your GB damage with feats would be 20,0,20,20, with no feats it would add 8,0,0,8.

So you are saying something like Human 20 Bard:
1 toughness
1 Extend or quicken
3 PA
6 WF
9 THF
12 icrit
15 i THF
18 g THF

So the heals go off but they are +only gear/enhancements? I guess I could play with maximize turned off on my WC and see what the heals look like. For me the Max really helps to make the heals hit hard enough to not have to spam.

I like the GH gauntlets of eternity for my heal setup. Though I lose my CC gloves to do it so I only use when I know I am the primary healer. Other times I have a setup that is a TOD necklace + Crafted Trinket for crits.

[korsat]

With out any feats you get 20% GBS on your 1st and 4th swing. With full THF you get 50% on swings 1,3, and 4. Both are while not moving. The 3rd attack is added with GTHF so generally it's an all or nothing thing.

Say your base number hits for 40, your GB damage with feats would be 20,0,20,20, with no feats it would add 8,0,0,8.

So you are saying something like Human 20 Bard:
1 toughness
1 Extend
3 PA
6 WF
9 THF
12 icrit
15 i THF
18 g THF
20 quicken

So the heals go off but they are +only gear/enhancements? I guess I could play with maximize turned off on my WC and see what the heals look like. For me the M
ax really helps to make the heals hit hard enough to not have to spam.


I like the GH gauntlets of eternity for my heal setup. Though I lose my CC gloves to do it so I only use when I know I am the primary healer. Other times I have a setup that is a TOD necklace + Crafted Trinket for crits.

ty for the clarification about the thf line!!
I don't remember bards get a feat at lvl 20, those are 9 feats but i think I can get only 8. So I'll drop ic:slash because I have a min2 greataxe as main weapon...if I'll have in hands an epic sword of shadow then I'll have to drop something else!
Hope that the 30% human amp+30% claw gloves+20%dt is enough to hit me with decent quicken heals. On party I'm planning to use scrolls mostly if I really have to heal I don't want to renunce at my 40 strenght bard dps so I'll get thf line

[Anthios888]

ty for the clarification about the thf line!!
I don't remember bards get a feat at lvl 20, those are 9 feats but i think I can get only 8. So I'll drop ic:slash because I have a min2 greataxe as main weapon...if I'll have in hands an epic sword of shadow then I'll have to drop something else!
Hope that the 30% human amp+30% claw gloves+20%dt is enough to hit me with decent quicken heals. On party I'm planning to use scrolls mostly if I really have to heal I don't want to renunce at my 40 strenght bard dps so I'll get thf line

Bard's don't get a feat at 20. So you'd drop extend and/or improved critical slashing.

If you're still working on this, I'd go h-orc if you are going for purely melee, because of the comparative advantage they have with two handed weapons. You should be totally fine keeping yourself up with scrolls and stuff.

[Valindria]

I'm dumb. I'm not sure why I put quicken at 20 unless I was thinking splashing, but that doesn't make sense either. Anyway I edited the other post.

[Quetzacoala]

What changes, if any, would you recommend making to this build if creating one today?

[zados]

Amazing build!

[Anthios888]

What changes, if any, would you recommend making to this build if creating one today?

Half orc. Stay pure. Stay strong.

[Ploks]

I plan on TRing into the Horc variant of this build in the next couple of days. With the expansion coming up what would you recommend changing, if anything, to the build?

[thomtom61]

So, this looks like a fun build, however, being a cash poor player is it still viable without all the +2 tomes?

[Anthios888]

So, this looks like a fun build, however, being a cash poor player is it still viable without all the +2 tomes?

Yep! No +2 tomes needed.

[KingMoca]

I've been using this build as my main for about a year now. I can't thank you enough. It's fun to play, and everyone I party with in Orien knows me for my well rounded character. I've become a master at eVoN, I can solo Amrath quests when needed, I can heal in raids/epics, the buffs can't be beaten by any other class, and the DPS cannot be matched by any other bard. Even my HP hovers anywhere from 490 to 550 giving me plenty of room for Valeh's wing buffets. And after getting my eSoS the damage is 4 times fold. Getting my Min II and other GS items was a cake. And the Fascinate ability is a godsend and quite frankly I believe, under estimated. (Ask anyone that runs eVoN) I've become one of the "in" guys that people talk about, all becuase of this build. I did change things up a bit for me to better suit my playstyle of course (Didn't grab Maximize and only Empower Healing, and a few other things for better DPS over heals) but in the end, the final credit goes to you and I always tell anyone that asks about my build that I got it from this thread. I'm still working on a few other bits of gear that I'm farming (Bloodstone, eBracers of the Claw, etc.). I just hope I can only keep the epicness of the Classic Rocker Warchanter after U14, but I'm excited. This build is just so fun to play. I love when people say "Well it's ok, the bard is just going to die" and then out DPS'ing the rangers and some fighters, all the while healing them, while throwing a hage to keep the momentum going. It's so fun to play, that I can't get away from questing with him to TR, so all this awesomeness is still just a first life. Well anyways, I don't get in here much and I've had this build for over a year now and I know due thanks are in order. Thank you.

[Anthios888]

I've been using this build as my main for about a year now. I can't thank you enough. It's fun to play, and everyone I party with in Orien knows me for my well rounded character. I've become a master at eVoN, I can solo Amrath quests when needed, I can heal in raids/epics, the buffs can't be beaten by any other class, and the DPS cannot be matched by any other bard. Even my HP hovers anywhere from 490 to 550 giving me plenty of room for Valeh's wing buffets. And after getting my eSoS the damage is 4 times fold. Getting my Min II and other GS items was a cake. And the Fascinate ability is a godsend and quite frankly I believe, under estimated. (Ask anyone that runs eVoN) I've become one of the "in" guys that people talk about, all becuase of this build. I did change things up a bit for me to better suit my playstyle of course (Didn't grab Maximize and only Empower Healing, and a few other things for better DPS over heals) but in the end, the final credit goes to you and I always tell anyone that asks about my build that I got it from this thread. I'm still working on a few other bits of gear that I'm farming (Bloodstone, eBracers of the Claw, etc.). I just hope I can only keep the epicness of the Classic Rocker Warchanter after U14, but I'm excited. This build is just so fun to play. I love when people say "Well it's ok, the bard is just going to die" and then out DPS'ing the rangers and some fighters, all the while healing them, while throwing a hage to keep the momentum going. It's so fun to play, that I can't get away from questing with him to TR, so all this awesomeness is still just a first life. Well anyways, I don't get in here much and I've had this build for over a year now and I know due thanks are in order. Thank you.

Yay! Bards rule!

[Ricter]

Following up on the prior race question.

If you don't have access to half-orc, does the original commentary on human vs warforged still stand (You lose the human healing amplification and empower healing, but pick up some very nice immunities, around 5-10% DPS (Warforged Power Attack enhancements), and have more compatability with warforged parties.)?

If you had to lose one feat, which would you pick? Two?

[Anthios888]

Following up on the prior race question.

If you don't have access to half-orc, does the original commentary on human vs warforged still stand (You lose the human healing amplification and empower healing, but pick up some very nice immunities, around 5-10% DPS (Warforged Power Attack enhancements), and have more compatability with warforged parties.)?

If you had to lose one feat, which would you pick? Two?

All of that is still true, but I probably wouldn't make a warforged today. There is a growing bias against warforged ever since Half Orcs and Half Elves replaced them as the top tier DPS race for most fighting styles. The more healing amplification becomes available, the more of a disadvantage warforged have, because every item is only getting 65 to 75% of each of those items. A human with dragontouched healing amplification, human racial enhancements, and an epic Gloves of the Claw or purple dragon knight gloves has 223% while a warforged spending all 12 action points on healer's friend is at 128%. In other words, warforged still works, but if you're new, you might get undeserved flak from other players and you might work harder to keep yourself alive.

The two feats to potentially lose are extend spell and empower healing. Extend is a luxury that I don't use on my pure bards because I can keep haste up every 2 minutes instead of every 4. I have healed all raids with only maximize, but empower healing helps boost your mass cures up a bit higher for the really difficult healing jobs. After tomorrow's update, metamagics are changing significantly. It may be that it is better for us to use empower healing instead of maximize for better spell point efficiency.

I still play a human Classic Rocker as my never-tred backup raider character and even though she does not get as much love as some of my alts, she is always fun to play and I always feel like I have something to bring to the party. Just yesterday I joined a hard tower of despair as the 2nd healer. I meleed very aggressively in part 1 and 2, taking over heals when the cleric needed to jump in and kite. In part 3, I healed the Horoth tank. Being willing to change roles if needed, but not cutting corners on any of them, is important to playing a bard like this.

The best race for this build is half orc, dropping extend spell as your human bonus feat.

If you have something against human and are looking for free to play races, halfling would be fine (+8 sneak attack damage and a halfling companion buff you can give to one party member ("Grant one of your companions a short-term +5 bonus to damage and saves, a +4 bonus to attacks, and a +3 bonus to AC while he or she is by your side."). Halfling is much more intensive on the action points. Dwarf also remains a nice choice, especially for a new player, because they have good hit points, saves, and enhancements to give you +2 hit / +4 damage while using greataxes.

I will update further for epic destiny AP breakdowns (Will probably do fatesinger, exalted angel, and either the barbarian or fighter destiny and switch between the three depending on the party composition). I want more details on the durations of everything before I advocate a particular build. Fatesinger looks great, though!

[OliviaCrowley]

KingMoca: Fascinate is even more valuable in U14, since it ignores SR.

Anthios: Been meaning to level a bard for a while, would H-Elf with Rogue dil be a fine choice, or are enhancements too tight? Trying to decide between going pure Warchanter or pure Spellsinger w/ Arti Dil, IPS and debuffing repeater.

[Anthios888]

KingMoca: Fascinate is even more valuable in U14, since it ignores SR.

Anthios: Been meaning to level a bard for a while, would H-Elf with Rogue dil be a fine choice, or are enhancements too tight? Trying to decide between going pure Warchanter or pure Spellsinger w/ Arti Dil, IPS and debuffing repeater.

H-Elf Rogue would be just fine. I'd still rather take Half Orc because power attack and strength are more versatile (+13 damage modifier 2-handed weapons, meaning 20 damage a swing average for a high-crit weapon like sword of shadows), but half elf damage boost and rogue dill are great also. Whatever is fun!

[BurningDownTheHouse]

All of that is still true, but I probably wouldn't make a warforged today. There is a growing bias against warforged ever since Half Orcs and Half Elves replaced them as the top tier DPS race for most fighting styles. The more healing amplification becomes available, the more of a disadvantage warforged have, because every item is only getting 65 to 75% of each of those items. A human with dragontouched healing amplification, human racial enhancements, and an epic Gloves of the Claw or purple dragon knight gloves has 223% while a warforged spending all 12 action points on healer's friend is at 128%. In other words, warforged still works, but if you're new, you might get undeserved flak from other players and you might work harder to keep yourself alive.

I've noticed that my WF barb was gaining less from SF pots, so I've done some testing.

turns out that the healers friend enhancement was nerfed (whether intentionally or unintentionally I don't know), and now instead of adding its percentage to to the base healing amp it's only adding a multiplicative effect like almost all other healing amp gear.

The test: Pre Xpack, with no other healing amp gear and first tier of healers friend a lesser SF pot will restore 65 HP (15% were added to the base healing amp). Post Xpack it's only 57 (the base healing was multiplied by 1.15).

I think that I'll report a bug just in case...

[Lugwik]

Anthios, Been away for over a year, any suggestions / tips on making a kick-ass Dwarven bard who can do it all? =)
Love me some dwarves.

My main is a Dwarven Cleric on Ghallanda, Dgrim.

[Qnevven]

hey Anthios
I allways admired your bard builds and uniqe gamestyle
I'm looking into respecing my bard and wanted to ask if you have any tips/ideas for a warchanter bard with rogue splash?
What i currently have is 16 bard /2 rogue / 2 fighter (first life, drow)
I added fighter about a year ago for an extra feat, +1 str enhancement and more DPS potential but can drop it in favor of 18/2 split - especially if warchanter III PreEnh is an option

What i would like is having a durable bard, with decent DPS, full traping skills and good party buffing, if there's still room for half-decent healing i'm game, but with my current build i just couldn't fit it in (no maximize, empower or empowered healing feats, nor any enhancements to scroll/wand healing - just the devotion line since my APs are hugged by rogue skills).

Any ideas will be appreciated

[Sani_Medicor]

Anthios, Been away for over a year, any suggestions / tips on making a kick-ass Dwarven bard who can do it all? =)
Love me some dwarves.

I just came back after a year or so too, but here's the dwarven build I was using when I left.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=275493