are monks becoming buffbots?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Moment of Clarity
Void : Light : Void Finisher -
Activate this finisher to clear way all distractions from your allies, granting a +5 Insight bonus to attack rolls and a +5 Insight bonus to skill checks for a very short period of time.
Special: Automatically granted to monks at level 10.

Grasp the Earth Dragon
Earth:Light:Earth Finisher -
Activate this finisher to fill all nearby allies with the strength of the earth, granting them immunity to daze, stun, and sleep for a short period of time.

Are monks becoming buffbots? Will every group now require that the monk keeps the Moment of Clarity on everyone at all times? Already groups are demanding that monks keep Grasp the Earth Dragon on tanks in VoD. Some people don't find this kind of play satisfying especially when it's forced onto a primarily melee class.

Discuss.

Garth

[rimble]

Oh, I'm fine with the role...but short durations + four key presses per buff are wearing me down...

[AZgreentea]

Quick! Where is a Paladin?! I need a heal!

For me, the emphasis on those skills are the words "For a short time" and "For a very short time". I dont think the Devs intend the Monk class to do anything but very quick buffing just like a Paladin can heal in a pinch.

[J1NG]

Personally, I don't really find it's much of an issue. Usually it's just in a few places where you would even buff. ToD for example as you said. Or in Epic stuff.

During normal quests, usually everyone is spread so far out that it's pointless using the buffs unless you're at a shrine and everyone is there. That's my experience anyway, and no ones complained about the lack of the monk buffs.

This is probably because the duration is so short anyway on the buffs that it's only expected in certain situations where it's well controlled and you can spam the buff out, and not in a normal quest line, where everyone could be on the four corners of the map, running at maximum speeds. And no chance of you being able to apply the buff to everyone short of running out of Ki in a jiffy.

J1NG

[Chai]

Buff bot. Stun bot. 500 damage every 15 seconds bot.

You can play it however you want. There are alot of tools available in the class.

[Seosamh]

Those are extremely underwhelming buffs. I, for one, would never require or even ask someone to use those.

I guess if you were doing epic without a bard the +5 attack would be decent..

Edit: Now, if it was +5 damage (stacking), that would be something else - but it's not.

[Anthios888]

I mean, would it be better if monks just didn't get new abilities? No one's forcing you to use them...

[J1NG]

I think I can see why they made it +5 to hit bonus and to skills only.

As it will otherwise undermine the Walk of the Sun buff and taking the Fire Stance line (for some). So they made it stackable with it instead, without making it into a replacement for it.

J1NG

[Eurytos]

To answer the question in the title: No, only if you suck and can't do anything else. Monk buffs can be done by anyone with 3 monk levels. None of a monk's buffs are required for any encounter in the game.

To Hit? Any melee worth anything won't need it.

ToD Stun? If your healers aren't too lazy to spend 20minutes running Threnal for a Mantle, they won't get stunned in a normal ToD, even with Suulo being killed. On hard/elite, you can have 1 healer out of range of stun to back-up.

Blur? Displacement is better.

The only useful buff is aligning the heavens. Even that, isn't a requirement as a good group will be fine without the extra sp.


Monks are a melee class. Bards are buff bots.

[Aerendil]

Are monks becoming buffbots?


Only the light ones

[Mobeius]

Oh, I'm fine with the role...but short durations + four key presses per buff are wearing me down...

OMFG yes, QFT!!!!

I get so tired of press press wait.... press then buff for 60 seconds... I dont mind buffing its just the short duration sucks..

[Aerendil]

^^ Yep, that's been a light Monk gripe since... well, since forever.

It just sucks that a level 3 Monk can buff just as well as a level 20 Monk for the typical element+light+element buffs.
Sure, they're throwing that new one in at level 10 for the void+light+void, but that's about it.

Give some semblance of duration please or intensity. Let a level 20 Monk do a group 20% Blur for 5 minutes, while a level 3 might only give 10% for 1 minute.
In other words, give Monks a reason to use the buffs past level 7 or so (aside from Aligning the Heavens which is almost always useful, especially upon entering a dungeon for the initial buffs), because they're otherwise obsolete after that point.

[Mobeius]

^^ Yep, that's been a light Monk gripe since... well, since forever.

It just sucks that a level 3 Monk can buff just as well as a level 20 Monk for the typical element+light+element buffs.
Sure, they're throwing that new one in at level 10 for the void+light+void, but that's about it.

Give some semblance of duration please or intensity. Let a level 20 Monk do a group 20% Blur for 5 minutes, while a level 3 might only give 10% for 1 minute.
In other words, give Monks a reason to use the buffs past level 7 or so (aside from Aligning the Heavens which is almost always useful, especially upon entering a dungeon for the initial buffs), because they're otherwise obsolete after that point.

Agreed, I mean would it be THAT horrible to increase the duration of a group blur to 5 minutes? I mean at that level almost everyone is blured anyways. Make it an enhancement double the Ki cost but make the duration like 5 minutes.

[Cyr]

/shrug

It's not like monks lost something for this minor buffage ability. So it comes down to who cares and a big no. Heck, they are not even spending an AP for these.

[Mobeius]

/shrug

It's not like monks lost something for this minor buffage ability. So it comes down to who cares and a big no. Heck, they are not even spending an AP for these.

True, but look at your build, your a level 5 monk in your MC, is it fair you can buff just as good as a level 20 monk? I can see MC builds being a long the lines to discourage this arguement as they would not be able to buff as much as a true monk.

I am sure other buff/caster classes would scream if someone could cast a 40 minute buff if they only had 5 levels in their class.

[Eurytos]

/shrug

It's not like monks lost something for this minor buffage ability. So it comes down to who cares and a big no. Heck, they are not even spending an AP for these.

Actually 1 AP for Void Strike

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

yup I agree that the length of the buffs should be longer on higher level monks.

Re: the bonuses - a +5 to hit is effectively a +5 to damage on epic, because it means that your melee can leave power attack on.

Re: the anti-stun buff. It's not just about the mantle, it's about losing up to 8 seconds of DPS on the boss which can be a hell of a lot of dps. Also, if you are using an intimidate tank, the agrro will flip to the highest hate and that can cause real issues...

Garth

[Eurytos]

Re: the bonuses - a +5 to hit is effectively a +5 to damage on epic, because it means that your melee can leave power attack on.

Unless your melee are half-decent and have power attack on anyway.... I guess maybe those Warforged with WF PA will have problems

Re: the anti-stun buff. It's not just about the mantle, it's about losing up to 8 seconds of DPS on the boss which can be a hell of a lot of dps. Also, if you are using an intimidate tank, the agrro will flip to the highest hate and that can cause real issues...

Valid point, though 8 seconds of DPS is just that, 8 seconds... and that's why I reincarnated my intimitank defender build into Kensai DPS. Intimidate is just too unreliable.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Unless your melee are half-decent and have power attack on anyway.... I guess maybe those Warforged with WF PA will have problems

STR twf fighter with, say, str 36.

their to-hit without bard or recit (it's not always on the melee) will be approx

20 bab
13 str
4 gh
2 fighter enhancement
3 weapon focus feats
5 weapon

so lets say a conservative 52.

with pa that takes it down to 47.

Some of the scorrow in epic oob have an AC close to 60.

Really, quite a few builds have low to middling to-hit in DDO, primarily because historically, mob ACs have never been a problem, encouraging the evolution of builds which sacrifice to-hit for damage. Many of these builds could benefit from a +5 to hit.

Garth

[Eurytos]

STR fighter with only 36 str? That's not a decent melee.

My elf fighter has 38str with only a +2 tome and non-epic gear. Add rage, single madstone proc and power surge and he's up to 50str.

47 to hit + 6 more str bonus = 53.
Add haste, 54.
Base (Non-Epic) Spectral Gloves, 56.
Flanking, 58.
Tharnes Goggles or similar, 63+
Fighter flanking feats can take it even higher.

If there's still a problem, add fighter attack boost that you have from taking Kensai anyway.

Will the +2/5 from monk bonuses help? Sure. Is it going to make taking a light monk necessary to do epics? Absolutely not.