For all the new player Clerics are HEALERS not tanks....

[pSINNa]

One of my toons is a healbot/nannybot, i don't play it much anymore, though after update 5 with a re-spec for radiant servant that may change.

For a long time i enjoyed the nannybot role, but over time that faded, and it became more of a chore then anything, keeping a glut of low ac, low con, low dr toons alive through quests my healzbot could easily solo as i discovered over time what an effective spell killer my 'healbot' actually was.

Then i rolled out a 2monk/18fvs, and rediscovered the 'healer' class. Able to melee 'effectivley' with top level quest bosses, able to solo nearly every quest in the game, killing with spells, killing with scimi's (valenar elf enhancement line on mine , killing with handwraps, self buffing, and able to primary heal raids for my guild whenever we needed it, it became my pride and joy, wearing more raid loot then you can throw a stick at, re-defining for me my expectations of 'healers' when playing my other characters (i have more then a few capped toons, playing most every class in the game, i happen to love the game).

One of my most enjoyable playing sessions recently was my fvs and a group of guild fvs players doing a tour of amrath, all in full melee mode, we ate that place alive, with 32 minute bastion of power being a high point for me (i have a love/hate relationship with all maralith's in the game :P).

My point is this, pidgeon holing classes is a sure sign of lack of experience, all classes have some access to healing in one way or another, and more experienced players will build their toons with a certain degree of independance inherant in the build (some will even sacrifice a little bit of dps to be survivable! shock horror).

If someone enjoys being a pure healbot, great, they have a definite role to play in the game, but don't think that's all they can or should do, because it's just not the truth, it's an opinion, and a poorly informed one at that.

Regards

Ghallanda : Coitfu, Coitrippr, Coithealz, Coittimeh, Coitburner, Coitfulff, Luciforge Son of Coit : Revelationz

[Heronous]

BYOH.

That is all.

[FluffyCalico]

Real solution just use hirelings. I have found that hirelings actually heal better than about 90% of the clerics out there. My latest alt is now 9 and hasn't grouped with 1 healer the whole way there, this has been intentional. Been just 3 manning everything with 2 real life firends+ hireling and yes have been doing stuff on n/h/e not just normal. It's really not that bad. 0 wait time and you know exactly what to expect from them. 1 ranger 1 ranger mutt and 1 pally.

[TWDiggs1980]

if you lfm for a healer and a tankish cleric joins and he fails at healing then the fault is at the player of said cleric

what you are describing are bad players, not bad builds

Wow you finally got it. There alot of new players out there that cant play Clerics or FVS. I don't recommend either as a new players first toon because of the simple fact that the party depends on them when things get hairy to keep them alive and well new players just don't have the experience in jumping around and throwing heals spells and run by rezzing to keep the party going. I'm not saying anyones build is bad as long as they can play it effectively.


I live to troll so let the neg rep roll.

[Mithran]

I wish that all the people on here flaming me for my thread would be honest with themselves and with others as well. Truly people when creating a party and looking for a healer are you looking for a tank. No I thought not. I'm not saying that they cant help in combat with either offensive spells which clerics get alot of nice ones or jumping in and doing some melee but when it comes down to it they are healers thats thier roll.





I live to troll so let the neg rep roll.

To be blunt, your idea of how a Cleric should be played is perhaps the foremost reason so many good Clerics run in-guild only and why it's extremely difficult to find a healer for upper-mid-level content. There have been only a few people here (I expect they're gone, by now) in my four years of playing that have taken exception to the manner in which I play my Cleric. Having said that, I've also yet to take issue with the manner in which anyone else plays their character.

Early in any quest, there are vast quantities of variables that people sort out non-verbally. As a team player striving for the success of your party, you need to make the small adjustments in your own play according to the situation.

Between combat encounters, do you find that the (ostensible) healer isn't topping your health bar off? Then it's likely he/she expects you to top yourself off.

Have you gone ahead out of range of your healer and wondered why you weren't receiving heals?

Is the 'healer' tripling your kill count?

It's almost always a good idea to review your own behavior to see what you could have done better before going to Khyber Forums to straighten everyone else out. Do you have a Cleric of your own, OP? I don't mean have you ever played a healer in an MMO, I mean do you currently play a healer in DDO?

[Dazalarian]

Hi all,

before you slag the OP cause you feel offended that your battle-cleric/fvs who has tanked this and that and on this and that difficulty. Read what his Title to the post says, "For all the new player Clerics...".

Just by jumping to red alert at the mere hint of that your precious melee-build is under attack in some way and instantly you see 100 posts with people claiming "clerics are not a support class, they can yaddayadda".

where there is smoke....

-Daz

[TWDiggs1980]

One of my toons is a healbot/nannybot, i don't play it much anymore, though after update 5 with a re-spec for radiant servant that may change.

For a long time i enjoyed the nannybot role, but over time that faded, and it became more of a chore then anything, keeping a glut of low ac, low con, low dr toons alive through quests my healzbot could easily solo as i discovered over time what an effective spell killer my 'healbot' actually was.

Then i rolled out a 2monk/18fvs, and rediscovered the 'healer' class. Able to melee 'effectivley' with top level quest bosses, able to solo nearly every quest in the game, killing with spells, killing with scimi's (valenar elf enhancement line on mine , killing with handwraps, self buffing, and able to primary heal raids for my guild whenever we needed it, it became my pride and joy, wearing more raid loot then you can throw a stick at, re-defining for me my expectations of 'healers' when playing my other characters (i have more then a few capped toons, playing most every class in the game, i happen to love the game).

One of my most enjoyable playing sessions recently was my fvs and a group of guild fvs players doing a tour of amrath, all in full melee mode, we ate that place alive, with 32 minute bastion of power being a high point for me (i have a love/hate relationship with all maralith's in the game :P).

My point is this, pidgeon holing classes is a sure sign of lack of experience, all classes have some access to healing in one way or another, and more experienced players will build their toons with a certain degree of independance inherant in the build (some will even sacrifice a little bit of dps to be survivable! shock horror).

If someone enjoys being a pure healbot, great, they have a definite role to play in the game, but don't think that's all they can or should do, because it's just not the truth, it's an opinion, and a poorly informed one at that.

Regards

Ghallanda : Coitfu, Coitrippr, Coithealz, Coittimeh, Coitburner, Coitfulff, Luciforge Son of Coit : Revelationz

Ok well if you would have read my posts throughout the thread you would know that I have stated that healing isn't the only roll of a a Cleric or FVS. However most new players don't have the experience to both melee and keep the party going at the same time and yes that is the primary roll of both classes. I'm not saying play your Cleric or FVS as a heal/nannybot but play it effectively.


I live to troll so let the neg rep roll.

[TWDiggs1980]

Hi all,

before you slag the OP cause you feel offended that your battle-cleric/fvs who has tanked this and that and on this and that difficulty. Read what his Title to the post says, "For all the new player Clerics...".

Just by jumping to red alert at the mere hint of that your precious melee-build is under attack in some way and instantly you see 100 posts with people claiming "clerics are not a support class, they can yaddayadda".

where there is smoke....

-Daz

Thanks for actually reading the thread man.



I live to troll so let the neg rep roll.

[Rasczak]

So you wanted a babysitter so you didn't have to worry about consequences and got a battlecleric so now they rubbish because they didn't kiss the booboo's?

Cleric intimi's and cleric melees rock...if played properly.....

[Mister_Peace]

For the most part, newbs who try to roll a battlecleric for their first character will suck at it. Also, for the most part, they will not venture to the forums before rolling this character.

[Visty]

Hi all,

before you slag the OP cause you feel offended that your battle-cleric/fvs who has tanked this and that and on this and that difficulty. Read what his Title to the post says, "For all the new player Clerics...".

Just by jumping to red alert at the mere hint of that your precious melee-build is under attack in some way and instantly you see 100 posts with people claiming "clerics are not a support class, they can yaddayadda".

where there is smoke....

-Daz

well, daznub*

the title is misleading
you know what the differance is between "lets eat grandpa" and "lets eat, grandpa" ?
its a comma
punctuation saves lives

the title could indeed mean
"For all the new player Clerics are HEALERS, not tanks...."
which would mean that new players think clerics are healers and not tanks

or it could mean
"For all the new player: Clerics are HEALERS not tanks...."
that means he is telling new players that clerics are only healers and not tanks

bad communication is a big problem in these forums and this thread isnt an exeption

and the fact that he is ranting about bad players and not bad builds even shows again how wrong the title is


*(lets see if i get anything negative for that, even though we know eachother^^)

[TWDiggs1980]

To be blunt, your idea of how a Cleric should be played is perhaps the foremost reason so many good Clerics run in-guild only and why it's extremely difficult to find a healer for upper-mid-level content. There have been only a few people here (I expect they're gone, by now) in my four years of playing that have taken exception to the manner in which I play my Cleric. Having said that, I've also yet to take issue with the manner in which anyone else plays their character.

Early in any quest, there are vast quantities of variables that people sort out non-verbally. As a team player striving for the success of your party, you need to make the small adjustments in your own play according to the situation.

Between combat encounters, do you find that the (ostensible) healer isn't topping your health bar off? Then it's likely he/she expects you to top yourself off.

Have you gone ahead out of range of your healer and wondered why you weren't receiving heals?

Is the 'healer' tripling your kill count?

It's almost always a good idea to review your own behavior to see what you could have done better before going to Khyber Forums to straighten everyone else out. Do you have a Cleric of your own, OP? I don't mean have you ever played a healer in an MMO, I mean do you currently play a healer in DDO?

The answer to your question is in my OP Lvl 20 Cleric Crulax. I'm not saying chase zergers down by no means let them get themselves dead and laugh when they do. Not saying keep me at full but atleast try to keep me alive
(Hey **** Happens) I don't holler and scream when I die. But play your cleric effectively.


I live to troll so let the neg rep roll.

[TWDiggs1980]

well, daznub*

the title is misleading
you know what the differance is between "lets eat grandpa" and "lets eat, grandpa" ?
its a comma
punctuation saves lives

the title could indeed mean
"For all the new player Clerics are HEALERS, not tanks...."
which would mean that new players think clerics are healers and not tanks

or it could mean
"For all the new player: Clerics are HEALERS not tanks...."
that means he is telling new players that clerics are only healers and not tanks

bad communication is a big problem in these forums and this thread isnt an exeption

and the fact that he is ranting about bad players and not bad builds even shows again how wrong the title is


*(lets see if i get anything negative for that, even though we know eachother^^)

I wish there was a time machine so I could fix that.


I live to troll so let the neg rep roll.

[Slink]

Sorry, I'm with the OP and the rest of you two timin suckas are just trollin the thread, like ya always do, looking for that one little comment to blow out of proportion.

Tell ya what, next time I see endgame raids going on, I'll just tank and refuse to heal.
Bet that would go over well.

Tell me, how many clerics you see at endgame raids doing anything but healing?

Everyone replied in this thread only sayin, "you dont need a healer at low level, clerics/FvS shouldnt be required to heal at all," bull shat on you sucka!

Truth of the matter is, youre also the same people *****in about all the new players and their lack of competence at endgame but give them a pat on the head for joinin the server without learning how to play til they wipe your raid for the 39.5th time last week.

So, anyways, mr. op, I feel for ya bro, been there myself.
Sucks when the bard has to step up and burn wands while the cleric/fvs runs amuck.
Even funnier when the group tells the 'healer' after the quest that they did a good job while youre in house j replacing the 3 wands that got ate.
But the people in this thread dont want to talk about reality, especially after they already had their own newbie hate threads and got it off their chest.

[Visty]

I wish there was a time machine so I could fix that.


I live to troll so let the neg rep roll.

you could pm a moderator so he changes it

[TWDiggs1980]

So you wanted a babysitter so you didn't have to worry about consequences and got a battlecleric so now they rubbish because they didn't kiss the booboo's?

Cleric intimi's and cleric melees rock...if played properly.....

If played properly. Right there in your own thread wow. Most new players cant do it. Also I was playing my lowbie bard so nope don't need anyone to kiss my booboos but I can't keep the party up by myself wand whipping everyone because the cleric isn't paying attention and is hacking and slashing away.



I live to troll so let the neg rep roll.

[TWDiggs1980]

Sorry, I'm with the OP and the rest of you two timin suckas are just trollin the thread, like ya always do, looking for that one little comment to blow out of proportion.

Tell ya what, next time I see endgame raids going on, I'll just tank and refuse to heal.
Bet that would go over well.

Tell me, how many clerics you see at endgame raids doing anything but healing?

Everyone replied in this thread only sayin, "you dont need a healer at low level, clerics/FvS shouldnt be required to heal at all," bull shat on you sucka!

Truth of the matter is, youre also the same people *****in about all the new players and their lack of competence at endgame but give them a pat on the head for joinin the server without learning how to play til they wipe your raid for the 39.5th time last week.

So, anyways, mr. op, I feel for ya bro, been there myself.




Sucks when the bard has to step up and burn wands while the cleric/fvs runs amuck.
Even funnier when the group tells the 'healer' after the quest that they did a good job while youre in house j replacing the 3 wands that got ate.
But the people in this thread dont want to talk about reality, especially after they already had their own newbie hate threads and got it off their chest.

Amen Brother...


I live to troll so let the neg rep roll.

[MeliCat]

Sorry, I'm with the OP and the rest of you two timin suckas are just trollin the thread, like ya always do, looking for that one little comment to blow out of proportion.

Tell ya what, next time I see endgame raids going on, I'll just tank and refuse to heal.
Bet that would go over well.

Tell me, how many clerics you see at endgame raids doing anything but healing?

Everyone replied in this thread only sayin, "you dont need a healer at low level, clerics/FvS shouldnt be required to heal at all," bull shat on you sucka!

Truth of the matter is, youre also the same people *****in about all the new players and their lack of competence at endgame but give them a pat on the head for joinin the server without learning how to play til they wipe your raid for the 39.5th time last week.

So, anyways, mr. op, I feel for ya bro, been there myself.
Sucks when the bard has to step up and burn wands while the cleric/fvs runs amuck.
Even funnier when the group tells the 'healer' after the quest that they did a good job while youre in house j replacing the 3 wands that got ate.
But the people in this thread dont want to talk about reality, especially after they already had their own newbie hate threads and got it off their chest.

but Slink, by wand whipping you are perpetuating their bad playing!


personally it *seriously* annoys me when i get thanked for healing and i *know* i haven't done as good a job as i could.

truly random pugs with new players who actually *need* a healer is a great way to practice healing and buffing and ccing etc. running with vets is a bad idea if you are trying to learn to be a good cleric as they are so self sufficient.

lol. just thinking, i got an invite to an Amrath quest on my cleric by a bard friend and i thought 'beauty! some healing practice!' lol. nup. that bard did 95% of all the healing. i grumped at him later that i had only come because i wanted the practice!

i don't feel right about inflicting myself on random pugs though (not without dropping guild on that toon.... again... i'm so ****....)

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Learned that since January?

Heavy Armor, some ok weapons, an ok BaB, and decent HPs. I think they even get a high Fort save. And spells like Divine Favor, Divine Power...that are only castable on self.

There is only one reason that Clerics are healers in DDO. That is because YOU (melee guys) need someone to heal you. And DDO decided that all clerics would have curing spells available at all time.

To tell anyone to "stand in the back and support me!" just ain't right IMO.

So...while I do think clerics are the best (natural) healers, and I do think that everyone one in a group should do whatever is in their power to help other party members when needed....I don't think telling any class of char how to play their char is right.

You go worry about how you play your own char. The keyboard in front of you is the only one you need to be concerned about.

[Visty]

And DDO decided that all clerics would have curing spells available at all time.

actually the players handbook said so

ddos implemention mimics the spontaneous casting ability