For all the new player Clerics are HEALERS not tanks....

[Emili]

Man she stole my thread.

Lol....

Cad é? … Oh, right, be the red-headed Angel, do like her way, spirited one.

[Kalari]

Hmmm OP I could flame you but instead I'll just say your opinion in my opinion is wrong. You see a group is a team instead of trying to say one person is support why not have the group support each other? Or oops does that mess up the fantasy of the big bad ass fighter cutting down while the stoic cleric sits back and bandages the boo boos of everyone? I bet in your perfect scenario the arcane sits back casting light spells to make creatures dance as well since everyone should "Know their role..."

Blarg I say (damned cuss filters) Either way this mentality is why all my divines solo who cares about health bars when I can watch myself and get threw most content on my own. Until people learn to stop playing depending on someone else to watch their backs all the time and not using play smart at all, im going to do the best thing for the classes I enjoy playing. So sorry OP as much as a battle cleric might get on your nerves heal bots bug me it takes a class with potential and makes it suffer so that people can be uber tanks who dont even bother to think about strategy and style. It makes people say things like "clerics are support" lol try playing one to capped utilizing all the spells and options they have then tell me all you want to do is babysit health bars. More power to you if you do.

[Emili]

actually it isn't. the "smiting" line is worthless as it only works on a couple of one shot spells (searing light, order's wrath, other alignment spells) and doesn't work on blade barrier, cometfall, and harm (which is affected by the healing line). when you consider that, there just isn't anything left to spend APs on but healing.

my FvS has all of the halfling luck line, halfling companion, spell points, spell pen and maybe one or 2 of the jumps as i had nothing else to spend action points on.

as to the OP, every class is a support class depending on the situation.

And is still that is a casting FvS... my twf scimi FvS elf has all the life, prayer, incredible prayer,sp enhancements yet is nowhere near half as potent in healing power of my casting cleric.

[TWDiggs1980]

Hmmm OP I could flame you but instead I'll just say your opinion in my opinion is wrong. You see a group is a team instead of trying to say one person is support why not have the group support each other? Or oops does that mess up the fantasy of the big bad ass fighter cutting down while the stoic cleric sits back and bandages the boo boos of everyone? I bet in your perfect scenario the arcane sits back casting light spells to make creatures dance as well since everyone should "Know their role..."

Blarg I say (damned cuss filters) Either way this mentality is why all my divines solo who cares about health bars when I can watch myself and get threw most content on my own. Until people learn to stop playing depending on someone else to watch their backs all the time and not using play smart at all, im going to do the best thing for the classes I enjoy playing. So sorry OP as much as a battle cleric might get on your nerves heal bots bug me it takes a class with potential and makes it suffer so that people can be uber tanks who dont even bother to think about strategy and style. It makes people say things like "clerics are support" lol try playing one to capped utilizing all the spells and options they have then tell me all you want to do is babysit health bars. More power to you if you do.

Nope play a cleric and refuse to be a nannybot or heal zergers. My OP was worded poorly. Not bashing anyones build just asking new players to understand that healing is involved when playing a cleric.

[Kalari]

Sorry, I'm with the OP and the rest of you two timin suckas are just trollin the thread, like ya always do, looking for that one little comment to blow out of proportion.

Tell ya what, next time I see endgame raids going on, I'll just tank and refuse to heal.
Bet that would go over well.

Tell me, how many clerics you see at endgame raids doing anything but healing?

Everyone replied in this thread only sayin, "you dont need a healer at low level, clerics/FvS shouldnt be required to heal at all," bull shat on you sucka!

Truth of the matter is, youre also the same people *****in about all the new players and their lack of competence at endgame but give them a pat on the head for joinin the server without learning how to play til they wipe your raid for the 39.5th time last week.

So, anyways, mr. op, I feel for ya bro, been there myself.
Sucks when the bard has to step up and burn wands while the cleric/fvs runs amuck.
Even funnier when the group tells the 'healer' after the quest that they did a good job while youre in house j replacing the 3 wands that got ate.
But the people in this thread dont want to talk about reality, especially after they already had their own newbie hate threads and got it off their chest.

Slink I always thought better of you then that from your posts on my server clerics do all healer raids, my guild leader builds clerics and favored souls who not only tanks in TODs and VODs but other raids as well. I know that new players cant just jump into stuff like that but why should they lose out on the fun of learning the class because someone wants their hands held threw a quest?

So we wonder why people are not playing their divines or playing so with people who understand them better? you wonder why lfms sit for hours because people are sick of being nanny/heal bots when the class has potential and it takes learning that class and not being forced to sit all the damned time. It amazes me how people want to pigeon hole others fun just so they can be king/queen kill count or brag about how their dps is when without their hand holders they couldnt last a second tanking anything.

Where as ive seen healers specced out for melee who can get themselves and handle the boss. So sorry id rather deal with a new cleric (and have) who wants to try to melee and learn what they are capable of then deal with another clone heal bot who sucks the potential out of a fun class. But you and the Op can go on boxing in new players I hope to god many dont listen to such bad advice and learn how to play their divines in a way that is fun for them, maybe then we would see more clerics/fvs not hiding anymore and actually enjoying the game the way they should be.

[TommyBoy]

So I have been playing my lowbie bard here recently and it seems that every other cleric I run across in a pug trys to tank. Good then they're doing thier job. Now go heal and CC bard. Clerics are a support class people not up front fighters.Wrong. My Cleric is an up front fighter with AC and Strength to match. I know you probably thought hey a warpriest thats a pretty good build in pen and paper but in DDO they suck.Again wrong. The class doesn't suck the player does. Pen and paper D&D isn't the same your DM isn't throwing you up against most of the mobs your are going to face in DDO and if they are I would punch them in the face and pull my char.So in your PnP you expect it to be a ckae walk? In my PnP DM's bump the mobs so that aren't nearly as easy as DDO.


Toons Crulax lvl20 ParticalCleric, Lakanthia lvl13 Fighter, Erraka lvl5 Bard

Fixes in Lime
There is no "healer" class in D&D. Your probably one of those type that don't think Wiz/Sorcs are melee either.

[Kalari]

Nope play a cleric and refuse to be a nannybot or heal zergers. My OP was worded poorly. Not bashing anyones build just asking new players to understand that healing is involved when playing a cleric.

Thats fine im glad you understand that its not fun to babysit all the time, but the idea that any class is just support is so wrong.

DDO has great potential to take a class and make more of it, ive seen people who cannot think outside the box and its scary their attitude. And its not just with healers, I got told once with my assassin specced rogue not to bother doing anything but getting traps and baby sit levels in a vons run, none of the other "uber players" had anything to damage the golems where as I always carry some form of adamantine, anarchic and smiting weapons. I watched them all die because they made assumptions about the class I play instead of getting to know the various ways to play said class. And its bad advice in telling someone new never to think outside that box that makes me more angry about your post. I get now that your not trying to classify healers as heal bots but to tell a new player not to reach their divines full potential or to play a certain way takes away from fun and thats what gaming is about and when a person is not having fun they dont tend to play that class period or they tend to play alone.

Dont be a contributor to the shortage in divines.

[KKDragonLord]

yay, another cleric related flamefest, how long will we keep seeing these regularly?

[Bladecutter563]

Six hours and he's got ten pages.

[Kalari]

I loved my pen and paper cleric she did more killing then she ever did healing then again she was under the death domain and all. Sure if a party member was really hurting bad it helped that I could help them at times but in my group if I sat around just waiting for someone to take damage from the mobs my friends probably would have told me to role up another character lol. I guess im just used to playing clerics that way and found you can do so in ddo if you work at it. And I had to learn my strengths and weaknesses but the way some people would have it anyone with a cleric icon could forget spell casting, swinging a weapon heck the devs may as well take out any damaging and just give us all cures and ailment fixers.. Bah it just bugs me the mentality that clerics have to be heal only. They can do so much more and it takes practice to learn what you want out of your cleric.

[TWDiggs1980]

Slink I always thought better of you then that from your posts on my server clerics do all healer raids, my guild leader builds clerics and favored souls who not only tanks in TODs and VODs but other raids as well. I know that new players cant just jump into stuff like that but why should they lose out on the fun of learning the class because someone wants their hands held threw a quest?

So we wonder why people are not playing their divines or playing so with people who understand them better? you wonder why lfms sit for hours because people are sick of being nanny/heal bots when the class has potential and it takes learning that class and not being forced to sit all the damned time. It amazes me how people want to pigeon hole others fun just so they can be king/queen kill count or brag about how their dps is when without their hand holders they couldnt last a second tanking anything.

Where as ive seen healers specced out for melee who can get themselves and handle the boss. So sorry id rather deal with a new cleric (and have) who wants to try to melee and learn what they are capable of then deal with another clone heal bot who sucks the potential out of a fun class. But you and the Op can go on boxing in new players I hope to god many dont listen to such bad advice and learn how to play their divines in a way that is fun for them, maybe then we would see more clerics/fvs not hiding anymore and actually enjoying the game the way they should be.

Listen I'm sorry if that is the impression you got from my thread not trying to lump clerics/fvs into the nannybot role. I was aggravated when i posted the OP and worded it poorly. Ok lets see if i can clarify my point running gwylans stand playing my lowbie bard get a cleric/fvs np running through the quest nasty mob fight people are hurting bad cleric/fvs still hacking and slashing away while the party is hollering for heals me on my bard wand whipping said party through the quest quest done down three cure serious wands cleric/fvs toon might have cst heal twice on himself.

[TommyBoy]

Support spells weather offensive, buffs, crowd control, and healing are what clerics are about not running up into the middle of the mob and trying to tank.

OK then why do they have heavy armor and shields and oh yeah the definition (taken from Defenders of the Faith):
Your spell selection and special abilities suggest several
important roles you might play in an adventuring
party. Naturally, your healing spells are often the
party’s lifeline. Your ability to turn undead is a power
that never loses its usefulness. And when the spells are
exhausted, when the enemies are not undead, your
proficiency with heavy armor and simple weapons
keeps you a force to be reckoned with.

[Missing_Minds]

Listen I'm sorry if that is the impression you got from my thread not trying to lump clerics/fvs into the nannybot role. I was aggravated when i posted the OP and worded it poorly. Ok lets see if i can clarify my point running gwylans stand playing my lowbie bard get a cleric/fvs np running through the quest nasty mob fight people are hurting bad cleric/fvs still hacking and slashing away while the party is hollering for heals me on my bard wand whipping said party through the quest quest done down three cure serious wands cleric/fvs toon might have cst heal twice on himself.

Who was party leader?

Me, I'd be responding with "Well all... seems as if we don't have a healing version of cleric/fvs here. I'll do what I can, but the rest of you better buck up and take some responsibility of healing yourself if we are going to make it through." And not toss the cleric/fvs any forms of healing.

Hard to tell if people were screaming at your bard or the cleric/fvs with all that runnoning happening.

[Kalari]

I think Its easy for me to say what I have to because I know what its like to play several different characters. Ive learned that I am my own best asset in any quest and while its nice to think someone may toss me a heal if im hurt that getting myself is the best way possible for my survival in a quest. Even on my WF barb I have some form of healing because you dont know who is behind that cleric, they could be a complete new player, a noob or someone who is focused on showing how much damage they can do.

I just know that when Im in a group that my own health is more important to me and that someones icon doesnt mean im going to automatically get healed if I go down. Ive also done more healing on my bard and even my wizard (specially with the heal scroll dealy going on) then ive seen some clerics/favored souls do and instead of being angry with them especially if they are at least getting kills in and keeping themselves up I just get threw it. Its just real easy to get mad at people for trying to find a way to have fun playing the class instead of sitting back and planning for times when people are not in watch the bars mode. I wish more people would learn to play without a healer it would make their lives a heck of a lot more stress free.

[TommyBoy]

who Was Party Leader?

Me, I'd Be Responding With "well All... Seems As If We Don't Have A Healing Version Of Cleric/fvs Here. I'll Do What I Can, But The Rest Of You Better Buck Up And Take Some Responsibility Of Healing Yourself If We Are Going To Make It Through." And Not Toss The Cleric/fvs Any Forms Of Healing.

Hard To Tell If People Were Screaming At Your Bard Or The Cleric/fvs With All That Runnoning Happening.

Qft

[TWDiggs1980]

Who was party leader?

Me, I'd be responding with "Well all... seems as if we don't have a healing version of cleric/fvs here. I'll do what I can, but the rest of you better buck up and take some responsibility of healing yourself if we are going to make it through." And not toss the cleric/fvs any forms of healing.

Hard to tell if people were screaming at your bard or the cleric/fvs with all that runnoning happening.

I don't remember it was many hrs and much aggravation ago. I am getting tired of clarifying that my OP was worded poorly however and am wondering if i can somehow get the thread pulled.

[Slink]

Slink I always thought better of you then that from your posts

Appologies Kalari, much respect to you.
Was early before coffee had set in and was in unique mood.
Have a tendency to troll a bit more those times of the day.
Read on a bit further to another of my longer posts in this thread should make it obvious how I feel about my gameplay.

I do understand the class abilities from many different perspectives.
I also believe that the OP although may have been poorly worded, was intended to make the "new" players understand that in a party setting they should consider their position a unique one.
This doesnt mean that any cleric/FvS is required to heal anyone.
Yet, if they choose not to, it should also be their priority to dish out enough crowd control to mitigate damage before it happens.
In a group setting, those who wish to play a divine class should be expected to assist the group with the benefits they are given, healing being one of those attributes.
If they dont wish to heal members of their 'group' they should go solo.

These newer players should also be working on their healing abilities in group settings because the vast majority of them zone into their first raid and are completely unprepared for what will be required of them by the group.

It is very easy for all of the longtime players to sit back and say that healing isnt needed at low level content yet 2 threads from now will rant about the newb healer in a raid that didnt know what the hell was going on.
These newer players dont have the luxury of 3-4 years DDO experience to understand the consequences of how they interact with their group.
They also reach lvl cap so fast without have a grasp on the most basic of concepts in a divine class role.

I dont have enough fingers and toes to count the number of times in shroud "part 1" I have asked for a prayer and the divine mumbles something about not having it memmed and hands out recitation instead, all the while claiming that recitation is a better choice for that circumstance....

I am not saying cleric's only duty is healing the masses but I **** well know when it really matters that's what I better be doing.
And if I am not keeping the melee up you better believe I'm spamming mass inflicts/harm/BB/destruction/banishment/gtr command/cometfall and whatever else happens to fall under my cursor on the hotbar.

[TWDiggs1980]

Appologies Kalari, much respect to you.
Was early before coffee had set in and was in unique mood.
Have a tendency to troll a bit more those times of the day.
Read on a bit further to another of my longer posts in this thread should make it obvious how I feel about my gameplay.

I do understand the class abilities from many different perspectives.
I also believe that the OP although may have been poorly worded, was intended to make the "new" players understand that in a party setting they should consider their position a unique one.
This doesnt mean that any cleric/FvS is required to heal anyone.
Yet, if they choose not to, it should also be their priority to dish out enough crowd control to mitigate damage before it happens.
In a group setting, those who wish to play a divine class should be expected to assist the group with the benefits they are given, healing being one of those attributes.
If they dont wish to heal members of their 'group' they should go solo.

These newer players should also be working on their healing abilities in group settings because the vast majority of them zone into their first raid and are completely unprepared for what will be required of them by the group.

It is very easy for all of the longtime players to sit back and say that healing isnt needed at low level content yet 2 threads from now will rant about the newb healer in a raid that didnt know what the hell was going on.
These newer players dont have the luxury of 3-4 years DDO experience to understand the consequences of how they interact with their group.
They also reach lvl cap so fast without have a grasp on the most basic of concepts in a divine class role.

I dont have enough fingers and toes to count the number of times in shroud "part 1" I have asked for a prayer and the divine mumbles something about not having it memmed and hands out recitation instead, all the while claiming that recitation is a better choice for that circumstance....

I am not saying cleric's only duty is healing the masses but I **** well know when it really matters that's what I better be doing.
And if I am not keeping the melee up you better believe I'm spamming mass inflicts/harm/BB/destruction/banishment/gtr command/cometfall and whatever else happens to fall under my cursor on the hotbar.

Can i attach this to my OP pls.

[Kalari]

Appologies Kalari, much respect to you.
Was early before coffee had set in and was in unique mood.
Have a tendency to troll a bit more those times of the day.
Read on a bit further to another of my longer posts in this thread should make it obvious how I feel about my gameplay.

I do understand the class abilities from many different perspectives.
I also believe that the OP although may have been poorly worded, was intended to make the "new" players understand that in a party setting they should consider their position a unique one.
This doesnt mean that any cleric/FvS is required to heal anyone.
Yet, if they choose not to, it should also be their priority to dish out enough crowd control to mitigate damage before it happens.
In a group setting, those who wish to play a divine class should be expected to assist the group with the benefits they are given, healing being one of those attributes.
If they dont wish to heal members of their 'group' they should go solo.

These newer players should also be working on their healing abilities in group settings because the vast majority of them zone into their first raid and are completely unprepared for what will be required of them by the group.

It is very easy for all of the longtime players to sit back and say that healing isnt needed at low level content yet 2 threads from now will rant about the newb healer in a raid that didnt know what the hell was going on.
These newer players dont have the luxury of 3-4 years DDO experience to understand the consequences of how they interact with their group.
They also reach lvl cap so fast without have a grasp on the most basic of concepts in a divine class role.

I dont have enough fingers and toes to count the number of times in shroud "part 1" I have asked for a prayer and the divine mumbles something about not having it memmed and hands out recitation instead, all the while claiming that recitation is a better choice for that circumstance....

I am not saying cleric's only duty is healing the masses but I **** well know when it really matters that's what I better be doing.
And if I am not keeping the melee up you better believe I'm spamming mass inflicts/harm/BB/destruction/banishment/gtr command/cometfall and whatever else happens to fall under my cursor on the hotbar.

Yeah I realized that from my last post I even said I speak the way I do because I do have years in and the gear and stuff to make up for things. But I just hate seeing new players being told to play a certain way. If we dont start making the cleric/ favored soul classes fun in groups the shortage of those who want to play those classes will continue to grow. Now that ddo is becoming more and more solo friendly with scaling and the like its far to easy for someone to make a cleric and not bother with grouping at all which to me is sad. I miss grouping from my pen and paper days it wasnt about one person supporting the group it was a true team effort. I think if more people looked out for themselves did not depend heavily on one class to heal them threw a quest/raid you would see more people playing clerics without hiding and being so choosy.

So sorry for coming down on you I just thought for sure you and the Op were trying to tell new players to heal bot only I do realize they do have to learn how to multitask that to me is the best way to cleric in a group but it takes time and many mistakes to get there.

And Op dont close your thread people are going to take your words however you know what you meant and I understand what you were trying to say now I just know that Id still rather have divines learn their full potential even if it means watching my own health for them to do so. I want people to think of clericing as fun as I do.

[TWDiggs1980]

I am sorry my OP was posted in the wee hrs of the morning and i had and still have been up for awhile and had just ran a quest in which the cleric might have heled himself twice while i'm wand whipping the party through.