Why Haggle ?

[pappo]

This question might be more appropriate in a General build area, but I see more comments on Haggle in the Bard forum so here is my question.

Leslie has a build that has a lot of focus on Haggle (Mississippi Queen) and I see many more builds recommending Haggle, but I do not understand how that skill surpasses the other available skills in helping you finish quests.

I am not "putting down" the Mississippi Queen build in any way. I, in no way, have the experience in running builds as Leslie or many of you have. To be entirely honest up front, my highest toon is only level 12 so I am no expert. I just had a question that has been bugging me.

I know it saves you money, but isn't it more important to stay alive and aid your build, so wouldn't putting skill points into something else be better in the long run. Things like Spot, or Swim, etc.. etc.. Would that not help you more when running quests than Haggle. On my low level Bard I invest in Perform, Concentrate, UMD, and Balance and Haggle, but I always wondered about Haggle.

If Haggle has some other "hidden" effect that I am not aware of, please let me know.

[Jakarr]

Most pp will make a bard just to raise em up and use em as a hagglebot and thats all. For making/saving alot of money.

[Trillea]

There is no "hidden effect" of haggle, but bards get a lot of skill points per level, and usually have enough to put wherever they need to, unless they splash rogue and are going for trap skills as well. Especially humans, who get an extra skill point per level.

[hydra_ex]

Bards get a lot of skill points:
So, lets say, just for argument's sake, you're a non-human with 8 INT. That's still 5 skill points.
So, the skills you want are:
1. UMD
2. Perform
3. Balance
4. Concentration (maybe)
5. Jump
6. Haggle

Of those 6, one, jump, is pretty useless, with a named belt that gives +30 jump, you don't need any skill points to get to the 40 cap. Thus, haggle, which will make you quite rich quite quickly, can be worked into even a battle-bard.

Many players also like to build haggle bots just to get lots of money off of the weapons they would vendor. The monetary gain is actually quite substantial.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

To really max out haggle you have to give up a tiny bit in feats, but a spellsinger CC focussed bard can give up NOTHING but one of the large number of skills they get and have almost max haggle. A WC will be a few points of haggle behind without giving up anything as a WC but still have an extremely high haggle. My human WC bard has a haggle in the high 60s and really she didn't give up anything for that.

Yes, to push it higher and really max it you might give up 2 feats, but so what? The WC or SS will still be extremely effective at their songs, which is the main DPS they bring to the game, and will still have the same HP to keep them alive.

The other thing to realize is that if you build a bard that does your haggling the increased income from selling stuff at high level is HUGE and the increased cost of buying stacks of heal/reconstruct and other large volumen scrolls is also huge.

[Dragonhyde]

It is a skill for selling/buying to npc vendors. Some people put a lot of emphasis on it others not so much.

[Zenako]

The payoff is two fold. You get a LOT more for what you sell and your costs for supplies can be a lot lower.

Compare a basic 12 haggle vs a 72 haggle build at cap and you get the following:

12 Haggle
Sell at Broker 18%
Buy at Vendor 112.80%

72 Haggle
Sell at Broker 33%
Buy at Vendor 76.80%

So you stroll into the Weapons brokers with 5 100k (98K rounded up weapons) to sell

12 Haggle guy gets 90,000 Gold
72 Haggle guy gets 165,000 gold

Now turn the proceeds of that sale of quest booty into Heal Scrolls for example.
Base price is 1650 each.

12 Haggle guy can buy 90,000/(1.128*1650=1861) = 48 Heal Scrolls
72 Haggle guy can buy 165,000/(.768*1650=1420) = 123 Heal Scrolls

You have been able to almost TRIPLE your buying power and can be much more free with burning up and using things like Scrolls.

[Trillea]

The payoff is two fold. You get a LOT more for what you sell and your costs for supplies can be a lot lower.

Compare a basic 12 haggle vs a 72 haggle build at cap and you get the following:

12 Haggle
Sell at Broker 18%
Buy at Vendor 112.80%

72 Haggle
Sell at Broker 33%
Buy at Vendor 76.80%

So you stroll into the Weapons brokers with 5 100k (98K rounded up weapons) to sell

12 Haggle guy gets 90,000 Gold
72 Haggle guy gets 165,000 gold

Now turn the proceeds of that sale of quest booty into Heal Scrolls for example.
Base price is 1650 each.

12 Haggle guy can buy 90,000/(1.128*1650=1861) = 48 Heal Scrolls
72 Haggle guy can buy 165,000/(.768*1650=1420) = 123 Heal Scrolls

You have been able to almost TRIPLE your buying power and can be much more free with burning up and using things like Scrolls.

VERY good breakdown... +1.

[spyderwolf]

haggle is the only skill that can affect your entire account. no other skill can impact yoru overall gaming than haggle. the 11k per stack of heal scrolls or the 5k per stack of haste pots. 80 haggle gets ya this from per weapon at the house d vendor:

Min Level 14(128k): 4,482 plat
Min Level 16(162k): 5,670 plat
Min Level 18(200k): 7,001 plat
Min Level 20(250k): 8,750 plat


this really adds up over the course of just regular gaming.

[Ota]

you are right op there is no point whatsoever to making max haggle saving a bare minimum of plat in a game with pretty much infinite money is pointless for sure like skill points to spare sure but giving up feats on a build you ever plan on running with people is freakin ********

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

you are right op there is no point whatsoever to making max haggle saving a bare minimum of plat in a game with pretty much infinite money is pointless for sure like skill points to spare sure but giving up feats on a build you ever plan on running with people is freakin ********

[Jakarr]

The payoff is two fold. You get a LOT more for what you sell and your costs for supplies can be a lot lower.

Compare a basic 12 haggle vs a 72 haggle build at cap and you get the following:

12 Haggle
Sell at Broker 18%
Buy at Vendor 112.80%

72 Haggle
Sell at Broker 33%
Buy at Vendor 76.80%

So you stroll into the Weapons brokers with 5 100k (98K rounded up weapons) to sell

12 Haggle guy gets 90,000 Gold
72 Haggle guy gets 165,000 gold

Now turn the proceeds of that sale of quest booty into Heal Scrolls for example.
Base price is 1650 each.

12 Haggle guy can buy 90,000/(1.128*1650=1861) = 48 Heal Scrolls
72 Haggle guy can buy 165,000/(.768*1650=1420) = 123 Heal Scrolls

You have been able to almost TRIPLE your buying power and can be much more free with burning up and using things like Scrolls.

Yes very nice Breakdown

+1

[hydra_ex]

Nice.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

The payoff is two fold. You get a LOT more for what you sell and your costs for supplies can be a lot lower.

This math is on the money, pun intended. +1 for accuracy and clear and concise explanation. Nice job

As for the OP, its normal to question skills, feats and enhancements. I still do after all my years playing. With a spellsinger, I can afford to max haggle and still build a very strong healer and cc specialist. You can even DPS effectively in controlled environments if you have a high enough strength.

The main thing to remember is to stay active. If you use your CC effectively, you can make just about any quest a walk in the park. At higher levels your CC will be challenged by immunities in some quests but this is normal. Some situations ranged is better then melee. Some situations casters are better than melee. And some situations melee is better than either casting or ranged. Different situations will favor different builds, but the best players can utilize their builds in situations most cant find a way.

All bards have the ability to amaze... it just takes a player with a great imagination to perform what 95% of the population says can't be done.

[bokaboka]

You have been able to almost TRIPLE your buying power and can be much more free with burning up and using things like Scrolls.

Your numbers are solid, your analysis not so much.
2.56x more scrolls is hardly triple, let alone TRIPLE in caps.

ok that was anal and picky. disregard hehe

[darkrune]

Your numbers are solid, your analysis not so much.
2.56x more scrolls is hardly triple, let alone TRIPLE in caps.

ok that was anal and picky. disregard hehe

Actually his analysis is still spot on. Using significant figures if he rounds to the "ones" place which is the last significant figure then the final result is 3 because 2.56 rounds up.

Fail for being a smart @$$... Thank you come again.

ps. +1 rep for breakdown. Great job Zen.

[AfroDesiac]

you are right op there is no point whatsoever to making max haggle saving a bare minimum of plat in a game with pretty much infinite money is pointless for sure like skill points to spare sure but giving up feats on a build you ever plan on running with people is freakin ********

Since you have infinite money, can i have a few million?


But, seriously, not all of us are rich like you (especially if youve been playing less than a year). I created a Haggle bard because i was always broke on my cleric. Guess what. I found that i enjoyed playing the bard more (especially with disco balls).

[Zenako]

Since you have infinite money, can i have a few million?


But, seriously, not all of us are rich like you (especially if youve been playing less than a year). I created a Haggle bard because i was always broke on my cleric. Guess what. I found that i enjoyed playing the bard more (especially with disco balls).

Ota does have a point for some players. If you are primarilary a high end raider, you will end up with excellent loot to sell off at the end of every session or quest. There are however very few ingame money sinks to consume that kind of plat on a recurring basis. Some players can end up money capped, and when that happens, earning more from selling is pointless.

I ran with some players once who pretty much left anything that they would be vendoring in the chests, when asked why, money capped was the answer.

Now for the rest of us, for whom having millions of PLAT is not a problem, getting a better return is still very useful to us. I for example found I was having horrible luck at pulling certain +2 tomes, so was able to more easily afford to snag them on the AH whenever I wanted. With lots of characters, it is always possible to find another cool toy to want or need.

That is another issue, some players are really only focused on one MAIN toon, and any other character is basically a mule. It is a lot cheaper to max out one character, than it is to outfit a whole stable of 10+.