Yet Another U5 mechanic idea

[chubbs99]

I love repeater rogues, I loved watching them just lay waste to all the mobs back when the cap was 12. So with U5 giving Mechanics repeater proficiency, I couldn't help but design this.

Version 3
With this third version, I've wanted to see what a Halfling would look like. The Health is a little lower then where I wanted, but its still a respectable number for an evasion character I suppose.

It could be argued that the monk splash is fairly useless for this build. Since it doesn't give much of an AC bonus. But I looked at it with the all or none mentality this time. I'm not going to hit the magic numbers of a proper tank, so I'm not going to focus on it. And I turned my attention to DPS, hence the Halfling option.

I did plan it Tome heavy, and I suppose not all the tomes are really needed. But As I have them I'll be using them.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Halfling Male
(2 Monk \ 18 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 246
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 25
Will: 12

                  Starting            Ending          
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats        
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
Strength             11                 13            
Dexterity            19                 26            
Constitution         14                 16            
Intelligence         13                 15            
Wisdom               11                 13            
Charisma              8                  8            

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          
                 Base Skills        Base Skills       
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
Balance               8                 31            
Bluff                 3                 20            
Concentration         2                  3            
Diplomacy            -1                 -1            
Disable Device        5                 25            
Haggle                3                 20            
Heal                  0                  2            
Hide                  4                 10            
Intimidate           -1                 -1            
Jump                  0                  1            
Listen                0                  2            
Move Silently         4                 10            
Open Lock             8                 31            
Perform              n/a               n/a            
Repair                1                  2            
Search                5                 25            
Spot                  4                 23            
Swim                  0                 16            
Tumble                8                 31            
Use Magic Device      3                 22            


Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot


Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)


Enhancements:
Rogue Damage Boost I, II, III
Rogue Skill Boost I, II, III
Rogue Fire Trap Lore I (lore needed for Mechanic Pre)
Halfling Dexterity I, II
Halfling Cunning I, II, III
Halfling Guile I, II, III
Racial Toughness I, II
Rogue Mechanic I, II
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I (took as fluff)
Rogue Sneak Attack Training I, II, III, IV
Rogue Disable Device I, II, III
Rogue Open Lock I, II, III
Rogue Dexterity I, II, III
Monk Wisdom I
Rogue Improved Trap Sense I, II

Zomg you noob, why'd you put points into swim you say?
Well.. I'm preparing for Epic Gianthold. Do you want to be the want doing epic crucible It may not help in the slightest.. but so many skill points and so few worthwhile skills

Zomg you noob, why'd you put points into bluff you say?
Since Bluff is good for getting attention of 1 mob, its there when to get the attention of 1 mob really easy. The way my guild has done Judge/Jailer a few times is have a FvS drop a BB and kite the Judge up top, the tactic works but it takes a while to get the Jailer out of there. Bluff could help here for example. Or, When I'm soloing and I want my sneak attack damage

Equipment will look something like:
Head: Minos Legens
Neck: Gilvaenor's Necklace*
Goggles: Tharne's Goggles
Trinket: Bloodstone (Head of Good Fortune doesn't hurt when doing traps)
Armor: Icy Raiment
Cloak: GS Smoke II, HP Item
Wrists: Ventilated Bracers
Belt: Mechanic's Belt
Ring 1: Gilvaenor's Ring*
Ring 2: Ring of Deftness
Boots: Epic Dustless Boots or Epic Firestorm Greaves (with GFL augment)
Gloves: GS Trip Neg Immunity Gloves (T3 Evil Guard) & Slay living guard
* Arcane Archer set gives +10% Ranged Alaclrity, Assuming that means it will effect Repeater speed. Combine with Rapid shot & Reload. I'm thinking Yummy Attack speed.
* The current gear lay out doesn't slot a Wis +6 item, or a Str +6 Item. Probably easiest to put it on one of the ToD rings.

Weapon 1: GS Radiance Heavy Repeater (as per Jiipster's great suggestion, though unless new end game content is released that isn't immune to fire damage, this may not be the optimal set up of the GS item)
[Flaming (1d6), Good Burst (1d6/3d6), Sunburst (2/day), Flame Blast (1d10/4d6), Radiance (4d6 + Blindness on crit)]

Assuming my math is correct, you should be seeing 49 - 138 (53 - 142 with Enhancement) damage per bolt. + -2str on non immune mobs
2d8 (weapon) + 9d6+26 (sneak attack) + 5 (power attack) + 1d6 (flaming) + 1d6 (good) + 1 (force rit) + 4d64 (radiance) + 4 (Dmg Enhancement, 20sec), on non bosses also + -2 Str (Crippling Strike feat)

On a non Vorpal Crit (17-20), you'll be seeing 118 - 279 (126 - 287) per bolt, + -2str + Blindness
(2d8 (weapon) + 9d6+26 (sneak attack) + 5 (power attack) + 6 (bloodstone))x2 + 1d6 (Flaming) + 1d6 (good) + 3d6 (good burst) + 1d10 (flame blast) + 1 (force) + 4d6 (radiance) + 4 (Dmg Enhancement, 20 sec)

On a Vorpal strike (nat 20), it becomes 124 - 293 (132 - 301) per bolt, + -2str + Blindness
(2d8 (weapon) + 9d6+26 (sneak attack) + 5 (power attack) + 6 (bloodstone))x2 + 1d6 (Flaming) + 1d6 (good) + 3d6 (good burst) + 4d6 (flame blast) + 1 (force) + 4d6 (radiance) + 4 (Dmg Enhancement, 20 sec)

Weapon 2: GS Lightning II Heavy Repeater
[Shock (1d6), Good burst (1d6/3d6), Chain Lightning (3/day), Shock Blast (1d10/4d6), Lightning strike (~2% chance of ~600 on hit)]

So again, Assuming the math is correct. You should be seeing 45-114 (49 -118 with enhancement) + ~2% chance of ~600 per bolt + -2 str damage per hit where not immune.
2d8 (weapon) + 9d6+26 (sneak attack) + 5 (power attack) + 1d6 (shock) + 1d6 (good) + 1 (force rit) + 4 (dmg enhancement, 20sec)

On a non vorpal crit (17-19), the damage should be around 110 - 255 (118 - 263) + ~2% chance of ~600 + -2str
(2d8 (weapon) + 9d6+26 (sneak attack) + 5 (power attack) + 6 (bloodstone))x2 + 1d6 (shock) + 1d6 (good) + 3d6 (good burst) + 1d10 (shock blast) + 1 (force) + 4 (dmg enhancement, 20sec)

On a vorpal strike (nat 20), it would be 116 - 269 (124 - 277) + ~2% chance of ~600 + -2 str
(2d8 (weapon) + 9d6+26 (sneak attack) + 5 (power attack) + 6 (bloodstone))x2 + 1d6 (shock) + 1d6 (good) + 3d6 (good burst) + 4d6 (shock blast) + 1 (force) + 4 (dmg enhancement, 20sec)

And whatever else you feel you want for weapons.

AC
Base 10
Dex 14
Wis 2
Size 1
Armor 5
Protection 4
Dodge bonus 4
= 40 Standing AC
Barkskin pot 3
Shield pot 3
= 46 AC With Pots
Bard Song 4
Paladin Aura 5
Recitation 2
Barkskin 5(only +2)
Haste 1
= 60 Buffed AC
Uncanny Dodge 6
= 66 AC fully buffed.
Funny how not actually try to get AC, of all the renditions this is the highest max so far.

HP
With Tougness & Enhancements: 246
Con item(s): 60
Greater False Life: 30
Favor 10
Shroud Item 45
Minos 20
= 411 HP
As I said, lower then what I'd like (~450+), but for an evasion character it should be fine.

Disable Device
Ranks @ 20: 23
Ability Mod: 2
+5 Tools: 7
Feats: 1 (If Skill mastery taken)
Enhancements: 3
Mechanics PRE: 4
Mechanics Set: 15
Ventilated bracers: 3
Greater Heroism: 4
Head of Good Fortune: 2
Total Modifier: 68

If This Rogue Guide is correct still. And Epic Von 5 needs a 90+ Disable DC, this build will need some tweeking prior to trying to disarm traps. with only a 67-88 disarm check possible.

Open Lock 75, Search = 51, Spot 49 (all calculated with gear listed above).

Thoughts, Comments, Suggestions?

[nicro000]

Where's manyshot?

[chubbs99]

Is manyshot confrimed to work with Repeaters?
I assumed not due to the feat saying specifically arrows. and repeaters fire bolts out of a "clip" so I can't see it working.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Your Dex seems a little low to be focusing on ranged attacks.

[MrCow]

Your Dex seems a little low to be focusing on ranged attacks.

The build took Zen Archery.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

The build took Zen Archery.

Ah. Alright then.
It's hard to find feats in those planner builds sometimes .

[Blank_Zero]

really fun idea. I need to look into the U5 notes and get a jump on stuff now lol. Definitely need to find some new exploits =)

+1 Rep for the cool idea =D

[Visty]

remove nimble fingers and swap a monklvl with a rog lvl
enother 1d6 dmg is better then a +2 bonus which you wont need anyway (if nimble fingers is a pre for mechanic, ditch the second toughness feat, its not worth to take more then one of them)

[Jiipster]

Don't make a Min2 - make a Lit2 and a Radiance. The Metalline attribute is kinda wasted on ranged weapons, since you can buy ammo of all important kinds with some House D favor.

Where's manyshot?

Manyshot doesn't work with repeaters.

[Blank_Zero]

(if nimble fingers is a pre for mechanic, ditch the second toughness feat, its not worth to take more then one of them)

He made the comment about Squishiness earlier on. Maybe the 2nd Toughness is to counter that? Just a thought...

[Visty]

He made the comment about Squishiness earlier on. Maybe the 2nd Toughness is to counter that? Just a thought...

489hp instead of 511 isnt squishy

also he just said that everyone says they are squishy cause most start with a con of like 8 and dont take any toughness at all

[chubbs99]

Yeah, This was only a first draft idea. After looking at it a little more I was actually already thinking of dropping one monk for a rogue level for that extra d6 in damage. After looking at how much that that little bit actually makes its definitely worth it.
Nimble Fingers wasn't needed for Mechanic, I may switch it out for Skill Focus: Disable. Not sure what kind of DC i need to hit for epic traps. Also is precise shot really needed either? I can't think of many times when its going to make a huge difference.

Come to think of it, This would actually probably be better as a 18/1/1. You don't need the second fighter level, Weapon Focus is kinda lame, +1 attack won't make or break the build. By being 18/1/1 it also opens up the ability to take Mechanic III if/when it comes out. Also when the fighter and monk level are taken could probably be optimized a little. Hmmm, might have to do some experimenting here in the char planner.

[chodelord]

figher 4/monk 1 gives weapon specialization which is really nice because repeater damage doesn't scale like bow damage

also even with 30(2?) dex my current repeater mutt misses often enough so you should definitely invest in divine power clickies to make up for rogue BAB.

Also wearing an STR item is a good idea because maintaining a light load while carrying a bunch of heavy xbows is pretty difficult.

Finally if you are relying on monk AC and icy you can't use black dragonscale armor which has the yummy 10% attack speed boost.

[chubbs99]

I've updated the build now. I made is a 18/1/1 and it looks alot better.
I kept Nimble fingers though, for one I wasn't sure what would be better in place of it, and two you can't have to much disable device.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Dwarf Male
(1 Fighter \ 1 Monk \ 18 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 308
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 16
Will: 14

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             14                 16                   16
Dexterity            12                 14                   16
Constitution         16                 18                   20
Intelligence         14                 14                   14
Wisdom               16                 22                   22
Charisma              6                  6                    6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    26
Bluff                 2                    23
Concentration         3                     7
Diplomacy            -2                     0
Disable Device        6                    39
Haggle                2                    22
Heal                  3                     8
Hide                  1                     5
Intimidate           -2                     0
Jump                  2                     5
Listen                3                     8
Move Silently         1                     5
Open Lock             5                    38
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     8
Search                6                    33
Spot                  7                    35
Swim                  6                    23
Tumble                5                    24
Use Magic Device      2                    24


Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Zen Archery* New feat in Update 5, will allow Wis to be used for ranged attacks instead of Dex


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Enhancements:
Rogue Damage Boost I, II, III, IV
Rogue Skill Boost I, II, III, IV
Dwarven Constitution I, II
Rogue Fire Trap Lore I (lore needed for Mechanic Pre)
Racial Toughness I, II, III, IV
Rogue Mechanic I, II
Rogue Sneak Attack Training I, II, III, IV
Rogue Wrack Construct I, II, III (assuming it works on portals)
Rogue Disable Device I, II, III
Rogue Open Lock I, II, III
Rogue Dexterity I, II
Rogue Improved Trap Sense I, II

Gear & Weapons & Minor Explanation of choices will be updated in OP

[Jiipster]

Is there any particular reason you're going WIS over DEX? If you swap WIS and DEX around, you'll be able to drop Zen Archery and either SF: Disable Device or Nimble Fingers (or both) and pick up Precise and Improved Precise Shot (IPS is wonderful with repeaters; if you hit two targets, you've just doubled your DPS).

[unbongwah]

Yeah, I would drop Zen Archery and just do a DEX build rather than a WIS one; especially if you're taking your monk splash so late. And if you really want to be ranged-focused, you ought to pick up Precise Shot and Imp Prec Shot. Also, rather than a 2nd Skill Mastery I would take Slippery Mind.

[chubbs99]

The Wis is for the bonus to AC from Monk as well as the extra feat, and you could very well take it much earlier, Maybe ~Level 8. I wasn't exactly sure how PS and IPS worked, as their wording isn't very clear. I thought it just made it easier to hit a concealed target, who's concealment was just other mobs. and couldn't really think of a time I've seen where it mattered if you hit one or the other. But if it's actually a chance to have the Bolt hit one target on its way to your target well then Yeah, I agree they should be taken.

Though perhaps a 18 Rogue / 2 Fighter Dex build would provide a better alternative.

[unbongwah]

Precise Shot lets you shoot past enemies to hit a target behind them: useful for, say, going for casters in the back who would otherwise be blocked off. IPS gives you a chance to hit every enemy between you and your target (separate to-hit roll for each enemy, IIRC) and is where a lot of your ranged DPS against mobs comes from at higher levels. Of course, you'll also pull a lot of hate that way, too...

As for DEX vs WIS on a monk-splashed archer: DEX boosts your to-hit and AC; WIS w/Zen Archery boosts your to-hit, AC, and Will saves, but costs you a feat on a feat-starved build. Also, remember that a number of ranged feats have DEX pre-reqs - IPS being the highest with min DEX 19 - which Zen Archery doesn't get you out of; and without those feats, you're gimping your ranged DPS further than it's already gimped. Plus your rogue stat enhs are to DEX, not WIS. The higher Will saves are nice, of course, but otherwise Zen Archery doesn't make sense on this build, IMHO.

Were I to try a build like this, I would go halfling instead of dwarf for the DEX & SA boosts; and rogue 19 / monk 1 with the monk splash early for the feat & WIS AC boost. Base stats (28 pts) would be 12 / 18 / 14 / 8 / 14 / 8 with all lvl-ups into DEX. Feats something like: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Finesse (gotta melee sometimes), Rapid Reload, Toughness (monk bonus), Imp Crit Ranged, Power Attack (after STR tome), Precise Shot, and Imp Precise Shot. Still not a great build, IMHO, but about as good as you're likely to get.

[chubbs99]

So I've been chewing on the comments so far, along with build idea in general. I think I've come up with a solution, though now its more of just a repeater rogue who doesn't need to worry about blowing a feat on weapon prof.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Halfling Male
(2 Monk \ 18 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 246
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 25
Will: 12

                  Starting            Ending          
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats        
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
Strength             11                 13            
Dexterity            19                 26            
Constitution         14                 16            
Intelligence         13                 15            
Wisdom               11                 13            
Charisma              8                  8            

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          
                 Base Skills        Base Skills       
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
Balance               8                 31            
Bluff                 3                 20            
Concentration         2                  3            
Diplomacy            -1                 -1            
Disable Device        5                 25            
Haggle                3                 20            
Heal                  0                  2            
Hide                  4                 10            
Intimidate           -1                 -1            
Jump                  0                  1            
Listen                0                  2            
Move Silently         4                 10            
Open Lock             8                 31            
Perform              n/a               n/a            
Repair                1                  2            
Search                5                 25            
Spot                  4                 23            
Swim                  0                 16            
Tumble                8                 31            
Use Magic Device      3                 22            


Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot


Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)

Full build info updated in OP

[unbongwah]

STR 10 + 2 tome is too low for Power Attack (min STR 13). I would drop INT to put 2 pts into STR.

Similarly, I would drop DEX a point to bump WIS to 14 for a little extra AC from your monk splash.

You took IC Pierce but that only effects melee weapons; you want IC Ranged if this is really a repeater-focused build.

Also, you don't get heavy repeaters free until Mechanic II (rogue 12); what will you use until then?