Whirling Steel Kensai

[jboyd158]

Just an idea on how to more evenly match WSS with unarmed.

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Level 20 Lawful Neutral Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 7 Monk \ 1 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 344
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 17
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    24
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom               12                    18
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     8
Bluff                -1                     1
Concentration         6                    32
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  1                     4
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  6                    26
Listen                1                     4
Move Silently         2                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     0
Spot                  1                     4
Swim                  6                    11
Tumble                6                     8
Use Magic Device     n/a                   25

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Whirling Steel Strike
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Fighter)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Lightning Reflexes


Level 16 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Philosophy - Path of Harmonious Balance


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense


Level 19 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Deflect Arrows


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Monk Concentration I
Enhancement: Monk Concentration II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

Opinions are wanted.

[Angelus_dead]

Even though Kensei includes a special feature to gain more Ki on critical hits, I do not see it as making sense with Whirling Steel Strike compared to the alternatives. The additional crit Ki doesn't help much unless you have something powerful to spend Ki on, which monk7 won't provide.

Compare it against the same character with WSS exchanged for khopesh. He loses 5% insight attack speed but gains critical damage that increases each hit by over 15% on average. So is there any way the use of +8 earth and +2d6 shock attacks on some hits can make up for that? I doubt it. The WSS guy does have the benefit of casting Aligning the Heavens on his party- except that to use a finisher buff means sacrificing 5% attack speed from Madstone.

Or if you compare against a similar build wielding handwraps: the unarmed attack rate cancels out the longsword critical threat, so you're left with the question of what kind of gear is easier to obtain.

[ConnorMacLoad]

Even though Kensei includes a special feature to gain more Ki on critical hits, I do not see it as making sense with Whirling Steel Strike compared to the alternatives. The additional crit Ki doesn't help much unless you have something powerful to spend Ki on, which monk7 won't provide.

Compare it against the same character with WSS exchanged for khopesh. He loses 5% insight attack speed but gains critical damage that increases each hit by over 15% on average. So is there any way the use of +8 earth and +2d6 shock attacks on some hits can make up for that? I doubt it. The WSS guy does have the benefit of casting Aligning the Heavens on his party- except that to use a finisher buff means sacrificing 5% attack speed from Madstone.

Or if you compare against a similar build wielding handwraps: the unarmed attack rate cancels out the longsword critical threat, so you're left with the question of what kind of gear is easier to obtain.

Ya, I think this gives a viable flavor to the class, as using longswords in an effort to use monk stuff will not gimp your character, but it has been proven many times now, that the longsword approach is not the best DPS for these types of builds. Having said that, I still think it is enough, and if you just want something a little different, this will work just fine.

[Kriogen]

First level should be Rogue. For skills.

Max UMD (primary) and whatever is left for Concentration. Should not be hard to max both. +2 Int tome at lvl7 would help alot.

Go Elf for +2 tohit/damage with Longswords.

As you have better DEX (elf) you can remove Lightning Reflexes.

Also take weapon spec for "blunt". Dump Deflect Arrow, Dodge, Lightning Reflexes if need to. It's so you are as good as it gets with Longswords and on top of that you have a nice alternative weapon vs critical immune mobs that may even be resistant vs slash. Qstaff and/or handwraps.

So not a standard 'pesh DPS only, but a bit more adaptable/versatile/support:
- centered longsword (vs Harry)
- centered blunt (vs Sorjak and maybe one day vs that undead Dracolich)
- KI based tricks
- UMD for self-heal and for Pure Good weapons.

Edit: I think WSS is designed for Kensai2-3/monkX and not the other way around. So Kensai/monk, not Monk/fighter or /ranger or /whatever. Hint: Fighter takes Weapon Focus anyway, for Wepon Spec, etc.

[Angelus_dead]

Edit: I think WSS is designed for Kensai2-3/monkX and not the other way around.

Maybe that's the intention, but it is poor for that purpose because having only a few Monk levels means being centered doesn't produce much benefit.

[Aerendil]

Maybe that's the intention, but it is poor for that purpose because having only a few Monk levels means being centered doesn't produce much benefit.

Yeah, it's a bit of a catch 22.
1 or 2 Monk levels and centered only offers a few benefits over being uncentered;
More than 6 Monk levels and Unarmed dps starts to become better than what you'll ever get with swords (and it's no longer a "splash" at that point either).

FWIW, 12 Fighter-Kensai / 6 Ranger-Tempest / 2 Monk is a nice option here (Monster).
Elf with Longswords.
Tempest melee haste.
Monk fire stance for a free +2 str; with Jidz-Tet'ka that's a free 25% incoming heal boost on top of the +20% from Ranger devotion II if you took that.


Or if going 6 or 7 Monk splash instead, pick up Ninja Spy for the 25% incorporeality. Combined with displacement, this could make you incredibly untouchable when you need to be.


Just my 2cp though.