Solar Phoenix, updated for Mod 5.

[sigtrent]

Anyway he said Solar P has "Disgusting DPS" and to "Just ask <name removed>" (where name removed was another pugger in the group who I do not know).

I asked for a screen shot of "Disgusting DPS" because honestly I don't think they can back that up and I would LOVE to be proven wrong. Please don't get me wrong, I am in no way bashing this build or other healing amp builds but I do not feel DPS is the strong point of them.

I think it depends on the benchmark you are measuring by.

Compared to 90% of pug-land, the DPS can rock.
Compared to elite DPS builds and players... not so much.

Mine is a Paladin 15, Monk 3, Fighter 2 (Phoenix Champion mark 2) and my DPS depends a bit on how I fight. No crit the best means are unarmed with TOD rings and the shock glove etc... For a crittable foe, I tend to summon a Holy Sword Kopesh (ok two of them) throw on the demon queen armor (for the seeker), and rely on big old smites to crank up the DPS (I can hit 500s on a smite crit).

Most of the time I use a pair of greensteel longswords because I carry some of my amp there, so its my "maximum healing" stance. DPS is decent, but not spectacular. I tend to be #2-4 in full raids in kills, but sometimes #1, just depends on luck. But my guild isn't usually heavy with balls out DPS builds.

I get asked to hate tank from time to time although usually when someone more specialized is not around. The smites are good for pulling initial agro.

Certainly pure dark monks should be a pretty solid notch above a phoenix build so long as TOD is available. My paladin tricks (and low elemental strikes) are about a match for the higher elemental strikes and my buffs a decent counter for higher base unarmed damage. But I have nothing to match Death Touch.

I class Phoenix builds as "Skirmishers" they are about survivability but their DPS certainly is appreciated in a party, even if its not wowing anyone.

I think the Phoenix shines brightest when pugging. It really doesn't matter how good the group is since you are almost utterly independent and self sufficient. It may take me longer to beat down a monster, but I'm likely to finish the fight with more health than I started with having not spent a single mana point or used a single consumable.

Not quite unkillable, but sometimes you feel that way.

[Diyon]

I class Phoenix builds as "Skirmishers" they are about survivability but their DPS certainly is appreciated in a party, even if its not wowing anyone.

I think the Phoenix shines brightest when pugging. It really doesn't matter how good the group is since you are almost utterly independent and self sufficient. It may take me longer to beat down a monster, but I'm likely to finish the fight with more health than I started with having not spent a single mana point or used a single consumable.

Not quite unkillable, but sometimes you feel that way.

I think that hits the build right on the mark. I PUG all the time on my phoenix. And I always seem to be appreciated by the healer types because they find quickly that they really don't need to worry about me, and if they do, they only have to spend minimal to no resources to keep me rolling. Often a RS aura is enough to keep me up alone in really tough situations without me having to switch to more defensive tactics. And a 20 FVS with the cure light capstone? I get healed with absolutely no resources spent because they hit me for 200+ hp.

DPS is decent, not amazing, but you hardly need anything from others, and can tackle stuff for the group that most others couldn't without being costly.

[Doomwafflez]

Well you said human would work really well for this build because of Healing Amp, but half elf has that too so would half elf be a better choice and perhaps take Barbarian Dilletatte for the extra HP ect?

[unbongwah]

Humans can get 30% healing amp; HEs can only get 20%. Also, you can only take Toughness enhs from a single class, so you can't take HE barb Toughness enhs as well as pally Toughness enhs. So basically HE Solar Phoenix w/barb dilly gets +1 CON HE enh in exchange for 1 feat, 23 skill pts, and -10% healing amp - not a good trade, IMHO.

OTOH, you could do a HE Solar Phoenix w/rogue dilly to get 3d6+3 SA; HE rogue dilly & rogue base SA dmg don't stack, but the +3 from rogue SA Training will, IIUC. Or if you did a monk 6 / paladin 14 variant: give up UMD for Zeal while still getting that 3d6 SA. Feats are tight, but I think you can drop OTWF without any problem.

[Caged]

I don't see how shintao helps with healing, can someone explain?

[Qezuzu]

I don't see how shintao helps with healing, can someone explain?

The Jade Strike thing is a light move. You can use it to activate the healing ki finisher quicker than just using fists of light, due to cooldowns.

[Caged]

The Jade Strike thing is a light move. You can use it to activate the healing ki finisher quicker than just using fists of light, due to cooldowns.

Oh right, thanks! Totally didn't think about that....

[Diyon]

Oh right, thanks! Totally didn't think about that....

While true, the inclusion of shintao was originally there when you were supposed to get 2 light moves for the first tier. Now that that has changed its rather questionable to bother with the feats and AP to get it.

[Noyabrina]

I'm not sure about Shintao Monk Pre for this build. Two useless feat (LoH and SF) for something unknown. Stunning blow and Improved Trip (u can use LS with vertigo for it) (or even Extend Spell and Mental Toughness) will be much better.

The Fists of Iron
You have imbued your attacks with extra force, and can perform a melee attack with a +1 critical multiplier. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect (DC 10 + half Monk level + Wisdom modifier).

10 + 5wis + 3mnk.lev. = 18DC Is it usefull by highlevels?

[slimkj]

If I remember right, you need 13INT for Improved Trip.

I've got some metas now in my feats to improve the spell based self heals as mine has the torc and conc opp sorted.

[Noyabrina]

Healing Ki:
10d4 = 25 average.

As I understood, now for 7 levels of monks Healing Ki will heal 4d4 hp. Correct?

[Mister_Peace]

Light Light Light finisher works on character level, not monk level.

[nolaureltree000]

just to clarify, the HA on a GS weapon will stack with the HA on armor and accessories, even with the same HA %?

like the 10% and 20% HA on the GS weapon will stack with the 10% and 20% HA runes on the dragontouched armor?


also, would you be losing anything by going 15pally/3monk/2fighter other than monk healing amp II, the monk granted ablities (disease immunity, slow fall, wholeness of body, etc.), skill points, and sneak attack damage from the rouge level?

[DrNuegebauer]

Fun - Yes
Solo Friendly - Yes
Disgusting DPS - No way.

As per the DPS calc, the Solar Phoenix would do about 360ish DPS (if fully geared in DPS mode), while (for comparison) a decent battle-cleric, or decent battle-wizard would do over 400.

A FvS should do about 380ish - but I guess they can also heal everyone?


Fun - Yes
Solo Friendly - Yes
Disgusting DPS - Yes! (but surely it's a build for Fun/Solo friendliness?)

[Soleran]

As per the DPS calc, the Solar Phoenix would do about 360ish DPS (if fully geared in DPS mode), while (for comparison) a decent battle-cleric, or decent battle-wizard would do over 400.

A FvS should do about 380ish - but I guess they can also heal everyone?


Fun - Yes
Solo Friendly - Yes
Disgusting DPS - Yes! (but surely it's a build for Fun/Solo friendliness?)

I agree the dps is low but I'd like to see that calc, with 40 str, ravager setup , 1d6 plus 3 and tharnes sneak attack I guess I have a hard time seeing a FVS or battle cleric delivering more dps even swinging long swords with divine might 2 and exalted smite and divine sacrifice 2 and rogue haste clickies, then again my split is 15 paladin/4 monk/1 rogue.

It's still a low dps build no doubt about it though.

[DrNuegebauer]

I agree the dps is low but I'd like to see that calc, with 40 str, ravager setup , 1d6 plus 3 and tharnes sneak attack I guess I have a hard time seeing a FVS or battle cleric delivering more dps even swinging long swords with divine might 2 and exalted smite and divine sacrifice 2 and rogue haste clickies, then again my split is 15 paladin/4 monk/1 rogue.

It's still a low dps build no doubt about it though.

I gave them Phx ravager + shintao set, ship buffs, madstone, yugo pots. Tharnes sneak yes yes.
Longswords just do piddly damage - and I gave them a LitII plus a 'healing amp' longsword.

Problem is that longswords are pretty weak in comparison to khopesh or scimitars. The crit power makes the difference.

a 15 pally will do far more damage since they get ES3 or DM3 - DM3 makes a pretty big difference since it well offsets that "activation time" and then some.

[Ravoc-DDO]

Don't forget about Zeal either

[DrNuegebauer]

Don't forget about Zeal either

Yes - that too for the 15 version!

Like I said, the 12 version is well behind the 15 version in terms of DPS - WELL behind!

[Impatiens]

I gave them Phx ravager + shintao set, ship buffs, madstone, yugo pots. Tharnes sneak yes yes.
Longswords just do piddly damage - and I gave them a LitII plus a 'healing amp' longsword.

Problem is that longswords are pretty weak in comparison to khopesh or scimitars. The crit power makes the difference.

a 15 pally will do far more damage since they get ES3 or DM3 - DM3 makes a pretty big difference since it well offsets that "activation time" and then some.

For this set-up what were your starting stats? You need 18 base charisma for DM3, right? So what did you move points out of to get that? I'm thinking of rolling up a character like this just for fun at some point so am trying to figure it all out I only have a 32 point build to work with, unfortunately, as I'm not planning on redoing any of my TRs for this.