A few wizard questions

[AylinIsAwesome]

I rolled up a wizard today to see what it's like (also my friend talked me into it). I do have a questions though.

1. Are the following stats good (Warforged)? 14 STR, 8 DEX, 18 CON, 18 INT, 6 WIS, 6 CHA

2. How are these feats?

1: Toughness
1 (Wizard): Extend
3: Mental Toughness
5 (Wizard): Empower
6: Improved Mental Toughness
9: Quicken
10 (Wizard): Maximize
12: Spell Penetration
15: Greater Spell Penetration
15 (Wizard): Spell Focus: Evocation
18: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
20 (Wizard): Heighten


3. How are these APs? (Biggest unknown for me is here)

2 Master of Magic
6 Improved Empowering 2
6 Improved Maximizing 2
10 Racial Toughness 4
6 Lineage of Elements 3
6 Lineage of Deadly Elements 3
10 Elemental Manipulation 4
1 Force Manipulation 1
12 Spell Penetration 3
12 Wizard INT 3
6 WF CON 2
2 WF Healer's Friend 1
1 WF Inscribed Armour 1

I'd like to be able to fit in more Improved <insert meta here> enhancements, though I honestly don't know what to drop.

4. For skills, concentration if obvious. I'm guessing Balance, Jump, UMD, maybe Spot and Haggle are good things to throw extra skills into?

It's currently just level 4, and if I screwed up badly enough I don't mind rerolling.

[sgtcatfish]

I may be contradicted here but i would trade the greater spell pen feat for eschew materials its a definite plat saver for one and the sp cost to use is 2 sp per spell that uses spell components, on top of that you can get spell pen from items if really needed as well as enhancement points so the first spell pen feat should be plenty with 1-2 ranks in the spell pen enhancement you will get access to, as far as stats go look pretty good of course you want to dump all your lvl up points in Int for sp and what not. of course i went with the double necromancy feats for better FoD and wail of the banshee but i wanted my wizard to have max dc for necromancy spells. it looks like your trying to go with evocation focus witch isnt bad at all of course so if thats your main plan stick with it. You want you enhancement to fit well with what your main focus is of course as mentioned it looks to be evocation witch from i see that you have listed should work fine, now if you decide to drop the greater spell pen feat and all you will want to work in the spell pen enhancements as previously mentioned. now on to skills, concentration of course is a must, balance isnt a bad choice at all, you will want good balance to get back up if you get knocked down, spot is gonna be real nice to spot and target mobs before they get in your face as far as jump youll have access to the jump spell very early on so that one is totally a personal choice, haggle isnt a bad option either and if you can fit in umd go for it but as of right now Wizards dont need umd to use heal scrolls so if thats your goal no need for umd unless you want to use race restricted gear and so forth plus as a WF you will probly have reconstruct and other repair spells loaded at all times for self heals but id say it looks like a very nice setup

[Kriogen]

Enchew material is copper saver, not plat saver. So far I have never seen or heard of a wizard going backrupt because of plain casting components.

I'd take Heighten before level 20.

I like Spell Pen Enhant (CC) or Necro (insta-kill).

Maximize is better then Empower. Maximize first, Empower at near 20. Maybe swap Empower, Max and Heighten?

Skills:
- Balance is good (**** chain triping dogs :/).
- 1 point in Tumble, so you can "roll tumble".
- UMD is also handy. You can self repair, but there can be one or two nice divine scrolls you can use. Not must, just nice.
- Jump not so much. You can cast +30 Jump spell.
- the rest is as you wish

[sgtcatfish]

I strongly disagree to the value of eschew materials on my wizard i have saved alot more than just copper due to not buying spell components a certain few witch you use all the time like wall of fire (except and end game), polar ray and stone skin for sure witch is used more than once per any given quest not to mention your party members asking you to cast it on them and stone skin components really add up, of course eschew materials doesnt work with stone skin components so with it its the only spell component you will ever have to buy and in my experience thats a definite plat saver given the life of a character even if you never reincarnate that character at all. i know people will disagree with my but that has been my experience and i believe its a solid investment for any caster

[AylinIsAwesome]

My main is a Favoured Soul. The Deathpact component costs more than the Stoneskin one, and I don't even notice the cost of buying those in stacks of 1K (along with the rest of my components). I see no need for Eschew Materials.

EDIT: Ahh, if it doesn't even work with Stoneskin then it is just a copper saver. No point in it.


I'm not sure I see the need for Heighten before level 9 spells though... On my FvS I took it at 18. I planned for Empower first because of the lowish SP pool I'd have at that level, though Maximize > Empower in terms of SP efficiency I know.

I thought about Necro, but the Necromancy PrE doesn't interest me (I've seen what happens far too many times when the wizzy goes into Lich mode, and summons never intrigued me). It's been my impression that most mobs in Epics are immune to insta-kill, though I've only done a couple of them so far. That is where I'd like to end up though.

EDIT 2: Oh yes, I did put some points into Tumble. 2 ranks, so I could tumble right away (and it's not like I'm hurting in the skill points department either...)

[sgtcatfish]

My main is a Favoured Soul. The Deathpact component costs more than the Stoneskin one, and I don't even notice the cost of buying those in stacks of 1K (along with the rest of my components). I see no need for Eschew Materials.

EDIT: Ahh, if it doesn't even work with Stoneskin then it is just a copper saver. No point in it.


I'm not sure I see the need for Heighten before level 9 spells though... On my FvS I took it at 18. I planned for Empower first because of the lowish SP pool I'd have at that level, though Maximize > Empower in terms of SP efficiency I know.

I thought about Necro, but the Necromancy PrE doesn't interest me (I've seen what happens far too many times when the wizzy goes into Lich mode, and summons never intrigued me). It's been my impression that most mobs in Epics are immune to insta-kill, though I've only done a couple of them so far. That is where I'd like to end up though.

FvS and wizard cant really be compared, Fvs usually have a good CHA score witch helps Haggle where as for a Wiz its not a primary stat and there for must be pumped up while potentially neglecting other stats. Just because Eschew doesnt work with stone skin components does not mean it only saves you copper over the life of your character, I cannot count the amount of plat i have saved overall on the life of my Wizard ( who is TR'ed as a sorc atm) just because i didnt have to buy any spell components except for stone skin witch i really only use on myself cause lets face it wizards have limited sp and spending it giving the whole party stoneskin and other buffs isnt fun at all, but i digress alot of people may not see the benefit of eschew materials especially cause they put points into haggle and or have an alt that already has tons of Plat and dont really care about the cost. as for me one of the first toons i rolled was a wizard there fore i dont have the stockpile of resources that some do and to me the benefit of not wasting hard earned money in plat buying stacks of 1000 for any spell component is well worth the free feat cause as a wizard you get 5 free class feats and the 2 sp extra to toss a spell with eschew materials

As player without unlimited money ingame making a wizard as a first or second character and taking eschew materials IMHO goes along way to maximizing income while minimizing spending. Take this as you will and play how you want to play if you wanna take a feat that you think is a benefit like eschew materials then do so if anyone comes along with an elitist attitude and tells you your gimp or whatever dont sweat it as long as you have fun and are happy with your choice then more power too you play on and have fun no matter what

[AylinIsAwesome]

FvS and wizard cant really be compared, Fvs usually have a good CHA score witch helps Haggle where as for a Wiz its not a primary stat and there for must be pumped up while potentially neglecting other stats. Just because Eschew doesnt work with stone skin components does not mean it only saves you copper over the life of your character, I cannot count the amount of plat i have saved overall on the life of my Wizard ( who is TR'ed as a sorc atm) just because i didnt have to buy any spell components except for stone skin witch i really only use on myself cause lets face it wizards have limited sp and spending it giving the whole party stoneskin and other buffs isnt fun at all, but i digress alot of people may not see the benefit of eschew materials especially cause they put points into haggle and or have an alt that already has tons of Plat and dont really care about the cost. as for me one of the first toons i rolled was a wizard there fore i dont have the stockpile of resources that some do and to me the benefit of not wasting hard earned money in plat buying stacks of 1000 for any spell component is well worth the free feat cause as a wizard you get 5 free class feats and the 2 sp extra to toss a spell with eschew materials

As player without unlimited money ingame making a wizard as a first or second character and taking eschew materials IMHO goes along way to maximizing income while minimizing spending. Take this as you will and play how you want to play if you wanna take a feat that you think is a benefit like eschew materials then do so if anyone comes along with an elitist attitude and tells you your gimp or whatever dont sweat it as long as you have fun and are happy with your choice then more power too you play on and have fun no matter what

I can run into the Inspired Quarter and make a few million plat in a couple of hours. A few thousand on spell components isn't a huge cost at all.

[Crann]

Going to have to agree with Kriogen here. It is not worth wasting a valuable feat to save a relatively small amount of money.

Heighten at 10 is going to be important also to keep your lower level spells functional. Also you will need your spell pen/greater spell pen feats. The boost you get from items is not going to be enough to land your spells later in the game.

[sgtcatfish]

Edit to last post : granted you can make lots of money by selling of items in places like inspired quarter granted and I am not trying to advocate that keeping eschew materials is the way to go because you can do a the dragon mark quest to get a free feat exchange but until you have the resources to keep stockpiles of spell components this is a viable way to cut down on costs while leveling up while you earn all the plat you need this is only my opinion and should in no way be considered as something that you have to have i feel that it is a helpful tool.

If you dont agree thats your opinion I am entitled to mine and I stand by this opinion. Above all else make your character how you want and play the way you want its always your choice

[Crann]

I can run into the Inspired Quarter and make a few million plat in a couple of hours. A few thousand on spell components isn't a huge cost at all.

Exactly

[sgtcatfish]

Going to have to agree with Kriogen here. It is not worth wasting a valuable feat to save a relatively small amount of money.

Heighten at 10 is going to be important also to keep your lower level spells functional. Also you will need your spell pen/greater spell pen feats. The boost you get from items is not going to be enough to land your spells later in the game.

the second spell feat is very nice of course but there are enhancements to augment the spell pen feats even with just the first spell pen feat and having the spell pen enhancements i have never run into an issue with getting past mobs spell pen if you feel you need the greater spell pen feat then take it, its a good feat if you dont plan on taking any of the spell pen enhancements but you may find later that you wont need it I know i did

[AylinIsAwesome]

Heighten at 10 is going to be important also to keep your lower level spells functional. Also you will need your spell pen/greater spell pen feats. The boost you get from items is not going to be enough to land your spells later in the game.

Ok. Moved Quicken to 6, Maximize to 9, Heighten to 10 and Improved Mental Toughness to 20.

How are the APs?

[Crann]

Ok. Moved Quicken to 6, Maximize to 9, Heighten to 10 and Improved Mental Toughness to 20.

How are the APs?

They look good.

I would drop the Empower Enhancements. You will use Empower rarely, only when you really need to turn up the damage. Maximize is more sp efficient, and will generally get left on. Use both only when you are giving it all yah got.

I am undecided about healers friend on an arcane caster...you are your own healer. It can never hurt to get extra out of the group heals though, so I don't know.

I'd take your Empower AP's and put them in the force line to amp up your self(and other WF) healing.

Edit: Another thought is Construct Thinking to bring your will saves up a little.

[Mister_Peace]

You might think about one or two levels of Wand/Scroll Mastery. I heal VoD a lot and it definitely helps, as do 2 ranks of Force Mastery. Even with only 2k mana and scrolls you can heal the tank and lay down the CC.
Feats: for me, the main question is Spell Focus - which schools, and whether to double up. At low levels Evocation DC will pay off. In epic dungeons, Enchantment is the only DC you will use. Not to mention levels 13-19, where the necro FoD and Wail are key. So if you don't have lots of shards, you will want to plan these feats carefully. As for me, I have 1 SF Necro - my toon isn't that optimized for anything in particular.

[eunucorn]

I can run into the Inspired Quarter and make a few million plat in a couple of hours. A few thousand on spell components isn't a huge cost at all.

Hyperbole? A few million plat => 3 mil plat or more. Do tell how you accomplish this feat. I agree the IQ is the place to go to farm loot. Usually pull about 50k plat an hour + some mnemonics and the occasional keeper of a weapon. Please enlighten us poor newbs.

[eunucorn]

the second spell feat is very nice of course but there are enhancements to augment the spell pen feats even with just the first spell pen feat and having the spell pen enhancements i have never run into an issue with getting past mobs spell pen if you feel you need the greater spell pen feat then take it, its a good feat if you dont plan on taking any of the spell pen enhancements but you may find later that you wont need it I know i did

I've got a 26 base spell pen as a sorc and I wish it was higher. As a wiz you have the feats but lack the mana and time for repeatedly trying to break through spell resistance. Get both feats. You will thank yourself if you ever run epics, elite IQ, or even some raids (Suulo in VoD needs a 35 or so to be hit by your debuffs). Epic Demon Queen's SR is in the 40s.

OP ... Maximize before Empower (maybe even well before); drop Eschew; Necro focus rather than Evo.

[gwlech]

Double Necro Focus...Double Spell Pen for the IQ > Evocation. You will really start to see this if you plan on running anything hard/elite there with elemental damage.

[Muldamai]

APs:
I would dump Improved Empowering 2 and take Wizard Wand Mastery 3, and do it early! Repair wands go a lot further enhanced at lower levels, and those level 6 wands of fireball/lightning can be used somewhat effectively before you get to level 10.

If you are soloing, the spell focus on Evocation is good, but the closer I get to 20, the more I want to change it to either Enchantment or Necromancy. I won't be using the Pale Master PrE, but more and more critters are just immune to elemental damage.

Another side note: I am thinking once I play with devils on a regular basis, I will be moving all the fire/cold APs to lightning/acid, just a thought.

Skill, I like Tumble, if you can spare the points. You won't need Feather Fall if your skill if high enough. I do keep Feather fall on for now, but my Tumble is at 20 and I can jump from rather high up and not take any damage.

I think you have everything else covered, so that's it!

[AylinIsAwesome]

They look good.

I would drop the Empower Enhancements. You will use Empower rarely, only when you really need to turn up the damage. Maximize is more sp efficient, and will generally get left on. Use both only when you are giving it all yah got.

I am undecided about healers friend on an arcane caster...you are your own healer. It can never hurt to get extra out of the group heals though, so I don't know.

I'd take your Empower AP's and put them in the force line to amp up your self(and other WF) healing.

Edit: Another thought is Construct Thinking to bring your will saves up a little.

I figure that I'll get hit in some group heals, which is SP I don't have to spend healing myself.

Hyperbole? A few million plat => 3 mil plat or more. Do tell how you accomplish this feat. I agree the IQ is the place to go to farm loot. Usually pull about 50k plat an hour + some mnemonics and the occasional keeper of a weapon. Please enlighten us poor newbs.

It should be gp instead of plat. Add it to my list of 3 AM typos.

I've got a 26 base spell pen as a sorc and I wish it was higher. As a wiz you have the feats but lack the mana and time for repeatedly trying to break through spell resistance. Get both feats. You will thank yourself if you ever run epics, elite IQ, or even some raids (Suulo in VoD needs a 35 or so to be hit by your debuffs). Epic Demon Queen's SR is in the 40s.

OP ... Maximize before Empower (maybe even well before); drop Eschew; Necro focus rather than Evo.

I'm taking both spell pen feats, and Eschew was never going to be considered.

APs:
I would dump Improved Empowering 2 and take Wizard Wand Mastery 3, and do it early! Repair wands go a lot further enhanced at lower levels, and those level 6 wands of fireball/lightning can be used somewhat effectively before you get to level 10.

If you are soloing, the spell focus on Evocation is good, but the closer I get to 20, the more I want to change it to either Enchantment or Necromancy. I won't be using the Pale Master PrE, but more and more critters are just immune to elemental damage.

Another side note: I am thinking once I play with devils on a regular basis, I will be moving all the fire/cold APs to lightning/acid, just a thought.

Skill, I like Tumble, if you can spare the points. You won't need Feather Fall if your skill if high enough. I do keep Feather fall on for now, but my Tumble is at 20 and I can jump from rather high up and not take any damage.

I think you have everything else covered, so that's it!

On spell focus, which is better for Epics, Necromancy or Enchantment then? I know Necromancy would leave me open to Pale Master if the devs make it good...but Idk...

Is wand mastery just useful in the lower levels, or the higher ones as well?

Amrath is a good point...which spells work on the devils? I'd like to be more than just a buffbot there. I've heard Lightning spells work on most things?

[AylinIsAwesome]

New feat selection:

1: Toughness
1 (Wizard): Extend
3: Mental Toughness
5 (Wizard): Maximize
6: Quicken
9: Empower
10 (Wizard): Heighten
12: Spell Penetration
15: Greater Spell Penetration
15 (Wizard): Spell Focus: (will finalize later)
18: Greater Spell Focus: (will finalize later)
20 (Wizard): Improved Mental Toughness


I want to aim for Epics, so whichever school is better in there is what I'll take.