"Selective" LFMs

[Kruler]

I can't believe I actually went through all the pages ... But like most of these types of posts, it was a good laugh.

[RangerMaya]

But you totally have me pegged, I am a total jerk, no life at all, no girlfriend, and I just live to belittle players whos toons are underequipped to do the raid I want to do. Yeah that just has to be it lol...

You forgot about the part where you bark out orders like you're a klingon war dingle berry, mainline jolt cola in your basement Ops Center and have your xbox modified to hold all your pr0n/your only sex life (to quote a post earlier in the thread).

You're right though, we are (or should be) talking about characters in a game and should not be resorting to personal attacks.

I get the frustration with the noob players that have joined our server in throngs (not to be confused with newbs) but the tone of the original post that didn't come off right. In general if I'm leading a raid I'll ask the group about players asking to join that I don't know rather than using My DDO because you're going to get a more accurate reading of a player's competence that way. Someone who has all the right gear and has a "non-gimpy" character build can still be a d'bag who doesn't know how to play (because he's a noob and can't/won't listen and learn) and brings down the whole party.

[SaIamander]

The more i read the more Christopher Walken keeps poppin' into my head. The same line from Joe Dirt over and over.

"You're talking to me all wrong... It's the wrong tone. You do it again and I'll stab you in the face with a soldering iron."

[archora]

I think people need to chill a bit, the OP isnt a bad guy. The post didnt make a good impression to say the least lol but he did say he wasnt a subtle person and obviously the written word can be misinterpretated for its tone. He did later say that he was berated a bit prior to posting so I think frustration may have been the main driving force for the post in the first place.

The post could have been worded a lot better but to rip someone apart and make accusations on their personal character is a bit harsh.

Also I dont think anyone with a fraction of a brain would ever assume that any one person spoke for an entire guild, especially a guild like Bane who most people know are one of the friendliest guilds out there.

So I think that the set in stone interpretation of the post was a mistake, we all make those.

OP maybe next time you post count to 10,000 then type

[Ssmooth]

I would have to say that I agree 100% with the OP. When I make a group, if I recognize your guild/player, your in with no questions. It's the new players who come into a shroud with no dr/ bypassing weapons, run through the middle in part 2, can't get their puzzle in part 3 and don't say anything until some one notices they can't do theyir 3x3, die in part 4, and then again 3 times in part 5. This happens especially if you start by saying, "Is there anyone new to this quest/raid, or has never been in here bafore?" With no one saying "No", you start with few directions cuz everyone "knows what they are doing." Or if your in VoD/ToD on hard and your caster dies at every other hit, and your asking yourself, "Again, really?"

But like I said, this stuff simply doesn't happen to known guilds/players, at least very rarely. There are also communication problems that you often don't find out until your wondering why the person you specifically asked to do/not to do a particular task and wonder why said thing is/isn't getting done. This is a separate issue, but again deals with communication.

If I don't know your guild or you as a character, your getting myddo'd. I'm not an elitist, but I do have standards. If you don't meet them, I really don't care how you feel, you won't get into my raids.

[Chai]

I said not to waste your breath to tell me that "its my loss to not have you in my group". That isn't the same, as sending me a tell asking what you could improve on your toon. Most people who have gotten to the point where they tell me it's my loss, have already had it nicely explained, what they need to do to improve.

The night I posted the thread, I had 9 people insult me, and tell me how it was my loss because I didn't want their toons in my group. I did however, explain to the few who bothered to ask, what they needed to to gearwise to get their HP up a bit, and improve their ability to do DPS, in an easy, affordable way. The point of this thread, is to help others understand what I mean by selective, not what ALL selective LFMs are after.

So many posters have taken the initiative to say what a jerk I am, when all I have talked negatively about was a character in a video game, not the person behind the keyboard. But you totally have me pegged, I am a total jerk, no life at all, no girlfriend, and I just live to belittle players whos toons are underequipped to do the raid I want to do. Yeah that just has to be it lol...

Its because some of us take a different approach to educating noobs.

Its called creating an atmosphere where they actually want to admit its their first time in whatever raid or quest we are doing. Creating an atmosphere where they want to ask the experienced solid players for advise. Creating an atmosphere where they understand that maybe they arent holding their weight now but its not because of lack of skill, its because of lack of gear, and experience. Most of the gear is affordable at level 15 plus. Experience comes with time - there is no way around that - no short cut for the rich people. I dont care what the dispartity in level of play is between myself and someone higher up on the pixelated food chain. If they talked to me in game they way you worded your first post, I would probably tell them to pike off.

But like I stated before, I dont have this glaring issue in the quests / raids I run, or the people I roll with run, because we have created that atmosphere. I dont /rage quit when the going gets rough. I /rage join. If I have to carry more than my weight, I am going to educate along the way so I dont have to continue to keep doing that forever. By doing this I am effectively solving the issue, instead of becomming part of it. My raid might take 10-15 minutes longer, but everyone knows whats up by the end of it.

I have already seen decent results. A bunch of former noobs from 3 months ago invited myself and a few others I usually roll with on their run. I sat through a few real hard runs with them not too long ago, watching them die over and over again until they got it right. They were doing a Shroud on hard, and we almost one rounded the boss in part 4. In the second round we didnt even kill the gnolls, as we only needed to smack Harry for two or three seconds. On the spot, I had to revoke their pileon union membership, and refund their prorated dues.

[synkos]

A lot of people have flamed my post based upon assumptions that are not accurate.

Flamed.

That's what you did. And are now stating the opposite and trying to paint that halo.

Look, I can understand being frustrated by spams of 9 noobs that can't do spine without dying at lvl20. But your wording in the first post is just plain wrong, to the extent that your guildies had to mention you're not talking for all of them. We aren't all nuts and you aren't the only one sane here (nor are those few that wholeheartedly agreed with you).

Just say "okay, I got hotheaded for a moment there". I've run with you without issues before and I wouldn't think twice about accepting you into my groups, nor joining the runs you start - but try to avoid those silly "selective" and "myddo" things that make most people laugh.

We all throw tantrums now and then, the trick is to admit we went a bit overboard and move on.

or not.

[Pyromaniac]

Judging from 2/3 of the posts in this thread it's ok to be a useless piker but anyone who refuses to carry pileons on their back is an elitist jerk.

I think Krag's hit it on the head here. Maybe I should start piking in raids instead of contributing.

A few weeks ago I decided I'd lead less epic raids, as the amount of horribly built, poor attitude players out there was enough for me. The skill level on Thelanis has declined as political correctness is more important than tough love to players who want to pike/pileon. I look forward to all the epic raids that the anti-OP people posting in this thread start. You can have the headache, I'll sit in the backseat and let you drive.

The OP had some good messages, though they get drowned out as some don't like the bluntness (or lack of specifics when its time to myDDO). I've played quite often with the OP, and he is one of the best (if not the best) players in his guild talent wise. I've had both good and bad experiences in the past with the OPs guild - and he provides some of the good experiences.

Selective means something to me - it means "I'm going to think about who I let in my group, and not take the first 5 (or 11) people that apply". In the past, I used to take the first people to apply - but that's not possible anymore unless you can solo the quest yourself.

Maybe its time to start what I read on the forums Argo is doing - make a private channel for the player base that can handle and enjoy epics.

[Bacab]

The Original Post was kinda haughty...big deal.

I am tired of this entitlement people have. Do not let MY join date confuse you. I recently came back from a 2-3 year break from game (got a new computer). I learned from *LISTENING* to vets. Learned from *READING* the forums.

Now I am totally aware that *MOST* of the people on the forums do not build 6 CON toons. We also go out of our way to contribute to a raid. But really I am tired of Pikers and stuff. I do not mind teaching. Just, I don't wanna do all the work and have someone just sit and reap the benefits.

EXAMPLE***

Here is a common LFM I post.

ADQ>>>IP>>>Know the way>>>Talk to Zawabi 3 times>>>Not waiting

Ok, if it is a new player, I do not mind walking them to ADQ. But if I am stretched for time, like say my Girlfriend is waiting on me. I just wanna get it done, and figure I can offer it to others (the free flagging).

So many times I get people who join and I am in room 1 or something. By the time I get to room 5 I pull down the LFM. I have people who joined after the first or second person get to thye quest entrance and enter. Then I will ask
<me> "Player A, do you know where ADQ is?"
<Player A> No, can you come get me?
<me> No, my G/F is waiting on me.
<Player A> You can't seriously wait on me?
<me> Oh I can wait on you. It's just not fair to my G/F to have to wait on YOU.
<Player A>You are a *^*% you wasted my time.
<me> Seriously? Did you not read the LFM?
<Player A> You should wait on me, and be a team player.
<me> but you realize you have not contributed anything to this and therefore are not on *MY* team. I offered a free flagging, and you failed to get here.


Now here is the thing...why do people believe the have a *RIGHT* to enter every raid they want. Heck I have seen people hit LFMs (for raids) when the Icons presented were either CLR or FVS and its a FTR or Barb hitting the LFM. They then complain that they should allowed in the raid.

So to rewind...yeah the OP originally kinda /rageposted , but can you not understand why?

I myself am really tired of 250 HP toons that can not survive the cooldown between Mass Heal.

No lie, last week a MNK with a whopping 276 HP complained that the "healing was slow" and he died because of that. I immediately asked his HP and when he said 276...like 4 (normal 450+ HP) melees told him to shut up.

I really take playing FVS serious. I do not want ANY deaths. But I also do not want to burn through 50 Heal Scrolls and 5 SP pots per raid to carry a group through. Now do not get me wrong. I will use consumables for an EPIC Raid or ToD. But normal shroud? No thanks. So these 250 HP melees make my job extremely hard. They suck up SP due to their penalty box actions in part 4. They end up getting over healed also. I seriously rather heal a 1000 HP WF Barb with no healers friend than try to keep up a 250 HP toon. That WF Barb, I can drop Mass Heal on him and Heal on him and not over-heal. Heck I would start the roud with "Mass Heals Centered on MANASPONG." Why? Because he would not die.

Yeah I get the whole, great players can carry turds through a quest. But seriously...I do that enough in real life. I work at a hospital and I do enough work on drunk, narcotic using felons who try to run over policemen to make me sick. And guess who gets to pay for these je**-offs health-care. That's right, you and I. The people "doing the right thing".

But I digress. HP is the only thing I would like to see from a toon. And a DR breaking weapon on a melee toon. If people expect my FVS to have heal scrolls and Mana pots...can I not expect them to have proper weapons? Seems only fair.

/rantoff

[synkos]

I think Krag's hit it on the head here. Maybe I should start piking in raids instead of contributing.

No he has not. I consider his post irrelevant and uninformed as he, and you if you agree with him, didn't actually read what was being said in other posts and he was just degrading people throwing around blanket statements that can't be backed up.

If we had people coming to the forums and writing stuff that would classify them as being pileons and pikers we would tell them "don't be a piker, learn to listen".

When I see people coming to the forums and writing stuff that would classify them as being "elitist jerks" I tell them "don't be a jerk, learn to listen".

[petegunn]

On one hand I see being selective when they put up their lfms as a person who wants the best for their team, 'remember theres a price to being a leader of men' they have a responsibility to their charges to stack the deck in their favour.

While on the otherhand yes some people who add being selective, must be experienced etc in their lfms are indeed pileons who need to be surrounded by better players so they can pike for the win, but that does not necessarily mean this is the norm.

Look at these lfms in this context some monks are terrible but no more than any other terribly built or played class, thankfully the majority out weigh the minority. People just wish to group with like minded individuals for a night of fun and they're sick of carrying the servers dead weight.

People see what they want to see in an lfm because we are sensitive. Heres the thing we'll look at an lfm, if we don't know the person we instantly make a judgment ie that noobs being selective why should I help him get a free completion. Are we as quick to berate guilds or players we know personally who use such wording? Chances are the player may be better at this game than you.

In conclusion, not all selective lfms are made by noobers, our egos kick in when we see such an lfm by an unknown person so automatically we think we're better than that person. We can accept such lfms from guilds and people who we know personally with no negative feelings to the lfm leader whatsoever.

[DiAGO77]

No need to be a jerk about it dude , you need to explain what you want in a party . If you are trying to reach all those random people that come into your party and dont understand your l33t attitude you are wasting your time . I don't even think they look in here .
Whats really funny is how you don't even know how to type that you want expirienced people only . I won't join those groups if I don't know the quest , just because someone is new to the game doesn't mean they are going to hitchike the whole quest or raid .
Really just put in expirienced people only so you don't waste MY time as well , do what I say lol .

The sound my bicycle makes when I ride through a puddle : DOOOUUCHE !!!

[Purgatory]

No need to be a jerk about it dude , you need to explain what you want in a party . If you are trying to reach all those random people that come into your party and dont understand your l33t attitude you are wasting your time . I don't even think they look in here .
Whats really funny is how you don't even know how to type that you want expirienced people only . I won't join those groups if I don't know the quest , just because someone is new to the game doesn't mean they are going to hitchike the whole quest or raid .
Really just put in expirienced people only so you don't waste MY time as well , do what I say lol .

The sound my bicycle makes when I ride through a puddle : DOOOUUCHE !!!

rofl no need to be a jerk? yet you resort to name calling. I think the puddle was calling you out.

[Chai]

The sound my bicycle makes when I ride through a puddle : DOOOUUCHE !!!

Actually thats the sound of a water tanker colliding with a vinegar cargo hauler on the freeway.

[Uamhas]

This is just me, but since I've been bringing up a bard without really relying on a guild to do it, I've been paying much more attention to what the LFMs say. (I started Mesnee in an unknown guild for reasons of my own.)

I'm sure this will be a repeat of someone, somewhere in this long and drawn-out thread, but I'll say it anyway: you have room for more than 1 word, don't leave it at "selective".

When I see an LFM that just says the quest name & "Selective" I assume that it's one of the following:
A) Break/reform and the party leader is just giving the returning players a place to click to get back in group.
B) Guildies/friends only.
C) An already formed party just waiting for someone(s) to switch to their alts.

I'll start my own party before I try to join one of those.

[Drakos]

When I post an LFM that states "Selective" as the description, I am still getting a lot of people attempting to join who should not be. In an effort to reduce the amount of players who should not be clicking an LFM that says "selective" I am making this post, to define the criteria I am accepting/declining players by.

I am forced to wounder how much of your listed criteria you had when your first character first ran these raids?