Stop Loss

[Emili]

If we went back to that way, there would be 100 of us on each server with 2 of every peice of loot on all toons and the rest of the server crying.

I'm really ok with how things are now, just give us what we're farming for AT SOME POINT.

Show us the light.

Being facetious I was...

Thoughts of how bloody unfair some things were when the chance for loot were in hands which may be tainted by greed.

Much the issue with loot be... when everyone have it, the game becomes less a challenge while the drawback of lacking loot, means less success beyond that where the loot hails from... Loot drives the games repetition, loot denotes the challenge of the next big successful quest... where be even better loot. Is quite circular.

[Thucydides04]

Why not just drop the number of completions required from say 20 to 15 thus at 60 completes youve seen 4 loot tables instead of 3. Or, after the 20th require only 10 more runs for loot tables. After 20 runs in 1 quest (shroud aside) not having your raid loot kinda sucks especially for raids like titan, abbot and tod.

[Gunga]

50 is a bit much.
Perhaps even obsessive compulsive.

If you personally enjoy and get your kicks from running a quest 50 times or more, that's your thing.

Some math...
If a VIP has the default 10 character slots and levels each to 20, then for each quest/raid with special wanted drops they will have done in excess of 500 runs.

If your life is DDO 24/7, fine; waste it however you want, it's your choice. How l33t.

IMHO 10 times for a drop is way more acceptable and doable for most part time players.

How do you have 10 toons with raid loot if you're not leet?

You could have 20 toons and never leave the Harbor.

Your assumptions don't work. Get them straight and 50 will start making more sense.

[Gunga]

Being facetious I was...

Thoughts of how bloody unfair some things were when the chance for loot were in hands which may be tainted by greed.

Much the issue with loot be... when everyone have it, the game becomes less a challenge while the drawback of lacking loot, means less success beyond that where the loot hails from... Loot drives the games repetition, loot denotes the challenge of the next big successful quest... where be even better loot. Is quite circular.

I know you were kidding.

Actually, Em, it seems like the raid loot itself never stops people from grinding for hopes of a tome drop. Even if everyone had every peice of loot they needed, raids that dropped +3 or better tomes would be run regularly.

[Memnir]

I very much like the idea of the full list on a 50th run. If you've run a raid that much, and still need something from it - you've earned it.


/signed

[Gunga]

I very much like the idea of the full list on a 50th run. If you've run a raid that much, and still need something from it - you've earned it.


/signed

Hey.

I ReMemnir you...

[Arkat]

qft

or at least bump the 20th end reward list from 50% to the 66-75% range.

Wait, isnt DDO supposed to be the grindless MMO?? Maybe Div has pulled his littany several times but lies for pity

There. Gave you the +1 Rep to make up for the neg rep I shouldn't have given you a week ago.

[Arkat]

l33t

No

1337

Yes

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Are you being purposefully dense? Did you not fully read my 17 posts?

FIFTY. Not 100, 200 or a billion.

50.

This is my extraordinarily educated guess, an expert opinion on what the right number would be.

I could say the same about your post. 50 is an arbitrary number where you think its too much. That's all.


It is not, "20, 50, 100 or 1000." My expert opinion of 50 is very precise and well chosen.

The more you lobby, the more it sounds like you just want an easy button, and if that's the case, than your are preaching to the wrong sinner.

Ah, then you really aren't paying attention to my posts. I already said that I would be happy for it not to apply to TRs and that I doubt I will make many (if any) new characters other than TRs. This isn't to help me at all.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I'm just wondering, after you guys get the raid loot that you want.....what quests will you run?





















Brb 20. LFM Sacred Helm. need elite opener and guide.

[vVAnjilaVv]

I'm just wondering, after you guys get the raid loot that you want.....what quests will you run?





















Brb 20. LFM Sacred Helm. need elite opener and guide.

You have a good point there, but really at a certain point DDO just ends and I find the only revival I get is leveling a new character. Even when new content is released it's obliterated so quickly it becomes stagnant fast if you are centered on only doing that.

Once I hit cap I am a very casual raider, because like it or not the way things are now, you could get what you want in one run...or you could get it in 200.......I won't revolve my life around that. The only thing I will run on a regular basis is the Shroud.

I really see raid loot as convenience items so you can complete tasks quicker, they are not necessary except for super high end content maybe sometimes.

I find if I level a new character awhile then go back to one of my capped characters it's much more fun than just playing my capped character over and over to get something.....that just makes me sleepy...I need stimulation.

[Lleren]

I'm just wondering, after you guys get the raid loot that you want.....what quests will you run?

It would require a decent chance for me to get Raid Loot for me to continue running any Raid twice a week per character, keeping up with Raid Timers, putting up with Pugs, etc.

As it is with 3 Shroud Flagged characters ( shortly to be 4 ) I tend to run it 4 to 5 times per week, Reavers Fate about 3 times, and other Raids once per month, maybe, and mainly to help guildies fill up the PuG they are in.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You have a good point there, but really at a certain point DDO just ends and I find the only revival I get is leveling a new character. Even when new content is released it's obliterated so quickly it becomes stagnant fast if you are centered on only doing that.

Once I hit cap I am a very casual raider, because like it or not the way things are now, you could get what you want in one run...or you could get it in 200.......I won't revolve my life around that. The only thing I will run on a regular basis is the Shroud.

I really see raid loot as convenience items so you can complete tasks quicker, they are not necessary except for super high end content maybe sometimes.

I find if I level a new character awhile then go back to one of my capped characters it's much more fun than just playing my capped character over and over to get something.....that just makes me sleepy...I need stimulation.

From what I see, the only motivation to run quests at end game....or at all....is loot.
Some motivation while (re)leveling for XP/Min.

Not necessarily true of the first char being leveled up. but even then, I see a race to cap with content being skipped...

I see LFMs for (insert raid name) 2of6. Leading me to believe the guy has six alts and he will be runing them all through every raid one after another. (not sure what he will be doing the next three days...maybe it's his day off of work or something)

People complain about the grind, but from what I see the grind is all they game for.

Chars are built around being able to whack on an end boss.
Quests are run on casual or elite for loot only.
preraids are soloed while the FLM for casual is filled.

How many people have run "in the Demon's Den" on elite yet? (or normal for that matter) It's a failrly new quest. But no named loot.

Reaver's Refuge quests are only run on casual for essences.

The only thing I see are people doing quests as easily and quickly as possible for loot.

Loot they will (only) use to do the same quests more easily and more quickly.....

They claim to enjoy the raids, but I really wonder....would they really run them once they get all the loot they want?

be careful what you ask for.....you just might get it.

[Thucydides04]

From what I see, the only motivation to run quests at end game....or at all....is loot.
Some motivation while (re)leveling for XP/Min.

Not necessarily true of the first char being leveled up. but even then, I see a race to cap with content being skipped...

I see LFMs for (insert raid name) 2of6. Leading me to believe the guy has six alts and he will be runing them all through every raid one after another. (not sure what he will be doing the next three days...maybe it's his day off of work or something)

People complain about the grind, but from what I see the grind is all they game for.

Chars are built around being able to whack on an end boss.
Quests are run on casual or elite for loot only.
preraids are soloed while the FLM for casual is filled.

How many people have run "in the Demon's Den" on elite yet? (or normal for that matter) It's a failrly new quest. But no named loot.

Reaver's Refuge quests are only run on casual for essences.

The only thing I see are people doing quests as easily and quickly as possible for loot.

Loot they will (only) use to do the same quests more easily and more quickly.....

They claim to enjoy the raids, but I really wonder....would they really run them once they get all the loot they want?

be careful what you ask for.....you just might get it.

To be honest with you it is more about completing my toons to me. I like seeing things through to the end. Furthermore, I have TR plans and when I hit 20 and get no tome or raid loot and have to grind to 40 then 60... that is 2-6 months of waiting.

Just because you like to do things a certain way doesn't make it better for me or anybody else. I enjoy building my characters, and most quests are fun, but running Titan (for example) 20 times is not fun, especially when you dont get the loot you are looking for.

My most recent toon who completed 20 Titans did not see a chattering ring a belt or gloves drop during any of the 20 runs and only the chattering ring dropped for 20 (phew). Just saying, some of us want to get our loot and move on.

If you want to take a casual approach to raiding that is fine too but understand that for some people the enjoyment isn't exclusively derived from running a quest or socializing w/ friends and guildies. Some actually enjoy the process of building and completing toons and want to do it more but unfortunately, raid timers impede progress.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

To be honest with you it is more about completing my toons to me. I like seeing things through to the end. Furthermore, I have TR plans and when I hit 20 and get no tome or raid loot and have to grind to 40 then 60... that is 2-6 months of waiting.

Just because you like to do things a certain way doesn't make it better for me or anybody else. I enjoy building my characters, and most quests are fun, but running Titan (for example) 20 times is not fun, especially when you dont get the loot you are looking for.

My most recent toon who completed 20 Titans did not see a chattering ring a belt or gloves drop during any of the 20 runs and only the chattering ring dropped for 20 (phew). Just saying, some of us want to get our loot and move on.

If you want to take a casual approach to raiding that is fine too but understand that for some people the enjoyment isn't exclusively derived from running a quest or socializing w/ friends and guildies. Some actually enjoy the process of building and completing toons and want to do it more but unfortunately, raid timers impede progress.

But once you complete it....then what?
TR just to get more build points, and a few extra feats?
And when you do your TR what quests will you run? I'm kinda betting you will relevel to 20 as fast as possible...and it will feel like a grind.
And after the TR....then what?

I know people don't really think about that....they just do what is fun. And right now what is fun is getting the loot....or trying to get the loot.

I know the grind is not fun, but from what I see the grind is all they do.

So I really wonder, how long will they stay in the game after the grind is done?

Cause when you break it all down, the build advice, the noob hate, the XP/min race. The loot runs, the multiple raids.
It seems to only motivation is to get the loot.

So when you finally do get the loot.....what now?

I'm just not convinced that speeding up the grind is good for the game.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Furthermore, I have TR plans and when I hit 20 and get no tome or raid loot and have to grind to 40 then 60... that is 2-6 months of waiting.

Just because you like to do things a certain way doesn't make it better for me or anybody else. I enjoy building my characters, and most quests are fun, but running Titan (for example) 20 times is not fun, especially when you dont get the loot you are looking for.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you want to take a casual approach to raiding that is fine too but understand that for some people the enjoyment isn't exclusively derived from running a quest or socializing w/ friends and guildies. Some actually enjoy the process of building and completing toons and want to do it more but unfortunately, raid timers impede progress.

It almost seems like what you say in first two paragraphs above implies that you don't enjoy it....unless I read that wrong.

EDIT...I worded that wrong the first time

[Gunga]

To be honest with you it is more about completing my toons to me. I like seeing things through to the end. Furthermore, I have TR plans and when I hit 20 and get no tome or raid loot and have to grind to 40 then 60... that is 2-6 months of waiting.

To be honest though, you don't need your raid loot in 20 runs so you can TR. There are people who have toons that are years old without all the gear they want...you are complaining about not getting everything you want in 2 months?

Different perspectives for sure, but I'm not asking for everything I need in 2 months.

I just want to stop the loss from being never. Which is what the current system seems like it is.

[Thucydides04]

But once you complete it....then what?
TR just to get more build points, and a few extra feats?
And when you do your TR what quests will you run? I'm kinda betting you will relevel to 20 as fast as possible...and it will feel like a grind.
And after the TR....then what?

I know people don't really think about that....they just do what is fun. And right now what is fun is getting the loot....or trying to get the loot.

I know the grind is not fun, but from what I see the grind is all they do.

So I really wonder, how long will they stay in the game after the grind is done?

Cause when you break it all down, the build advice, the noob hate, the XP/min race. The loot runs, the multiple raids.
It seems to only motivation is to get the loot.

So when you finally do get the loot.....what now?

I'm just not convinced that speeding up the grind is good for the game.

I like to continuously refine my builds, to me that is fun. I also like to try different things out with builds. I agree with the op in the sense that there needs to be a point when you can be certain you will have your loot.

As far as it not being good for the game, I disagree completely, once you've finished your str based rogue you can move on to try a warchanter and so on... making a more rounded player who has better knowledge of what classes can do and how to run quests.

As far as the rest of the stuff goes, I derive much of my enjoyment in this game from things that may be different from other players. Ensuring that after so many trips through a dungeon I can finally get the item I was looking for is a good idea in my mind.

[Thucydides04]

It almost seems like what you say in first two paragraphs above implies that you don't enjoy it....unless I read that wrong.

EDIT...I worded that wrong the first time

I enjoy it, especially since the guild I am in have great people in them who make any raid fun. But, what I do not enjoy is running certain quests over and over (Titan I am looking at you) and not getting the loot I have been looking for. I like building toons and running with guildies etc. But to me, the most satisfaction I derive outside of the social aspects of the game is when I complete my toons.

[Phidius]

...be careful what you ask for.....you just might get it.

Grind has become an integral part of the DDO experience. You ask what I would do if I had all the loot I wanted for my character? I'd start up a new character, one I've never played before, and experience the game all over again from a new perspective. If it wasn't for the grind...

As it stands, the horrendous nature of the grind keeps me from playing a Barbarian, Bard, Paladin, Sorceror, etc... because if I want to play my "perfect build", it will take years to get all the gear I plan out for them.

And so I grind for my 3 main characters, waiting for the day when the pain of grinding outweighs the rewards.