loot rules - my 2c

[pandalet]

Seriously though, it's not like we keep our loot policy a secret, join or not at your descression (and peril and incredulity and pain).

There's keeping it secret, then there's making sure people know where they stand, before they make a commitment in error. If you wish to enforce a particular loot scheme, that discriminates against certain members of the group, that is your priviledge; the honourable way to do this is to make sure everyone understands what's happening (IMHO). If puggers are made aware of the policy, they can't complain if they choose to abide by it.

[biggin]

Personally I don't really see the big deal if I don't get to roll on an item. Since it's raids, you always get that tingly feeling walking up on your 20th, 40th, etc., waiting for supreme enjoyment/disappointment. As an example, I run Abbott with Storm Lords and the occasional Legion one. I have more "fun" in a Storm Lords run, but in a Legion run they say, "Go to asteroids, cast a few mass heals, collect chest." I can do all the puzzle rooms easily, but if there's nothing going on, why not have "sandwich and Guiness time" and an easy raid completion? If something falls for me I need great, if not then 19 more "sandwich and Guiness times" and I'll get it.

I really only see (for the most part) newer players who get upset with this. I think guilds should take care of the members, if not then what would be the point of the guild? Also, I can't think of too many items in game that are make or break items (maybe TOD rings for monks). If you don't get it, no big deal, obviously you can complete raids so you must already be doing something right. I don't get too caught up in the min/max aspect of the game, so maybe it's just me.

[Astars]

Back in the good old Devourer days.
The server was half empty and even the "big" guilds were dependent on leet PuGs to get their difficult raids done, while most of the population were stuck in small (formerly large, even founders guilds). The veteran small guild players were loosely organized in "abbot" and "shadows" communities, where we established a "need before greed" code of ethics accross guilds. We even forced the larger guilds to adhere to that code. I still miss those days (maybe because i was a leet pug at that time, while I'm now a random pug just a bit more advanced than a cockroach). While many players came over to Thelanis and we got a nice eubies community going, I feel the old esprit de corps is gone.
/rant off

[Renegade66]

There's keeping it secret, then there's making sure people know where they stand, before they make a commitment in error. If you wish to enforce a particular loot scheme, that discriminates against certain members of the group, that is your priviledge; the honourable way to do this is to make sure everyone understands what's happening (IMHO). If puggers are made aware of the policy, they can't complain if they choose to abide by it.

Let me turn this around on you.

There is no need for Legion to announce loot rules, because we DO NOT "enforce a particular loot scheme" except within our own guild. We don't make any pugger do anything with their loot. Your loot is your loot, period.

Seriously, you are suggesting that before every raid the leader takes time to state, "Your loot is your loot. You can do whatever you want with your loot. You can give it to a friend. You can keep it for yourself. You can auction it off. You can put it up for general roll. You can leave it in the chest. Our policy is YOUR LOOT IS YOUR LOOT." Ridiculous.

My contention is that it is the pugger trying to "enforce a particular loot scheme". If a pugger's expectation is that they should be allowed to roll on other people's loot or to be included in rolls for other people's loot then that is their "loot policy" and they better make it clear. Good freaking luck though forcing people to let you roll on their loot in any way shape or form other than what the item owner decides on his/her own accord.

IMO, it is unfair for puggers to lay claim to my loot or anyone else's loot in the party. Anyone that joins a raid expecting anything other than people being able to do whatever they **** well want with the loot they pull is setting themselves up for disappointment.

[Visty]

Back in the good old Devourer days.
The server was half empty and even the "big" guilds were dependent on leet PuGs to get their difficult raids done, while most of the population were stuck in small (formerly large, even founders guilds). The veteran small guild players were loosely organized in "abbot" and "shadows" communities, where we established a "need before greed" code of ethics accross guilds. We even forced the larger guilds to adhere to that code. I still miss those days (maybe because i was a leet pug at that time, while I'm now a random pug just a bit more advanced than a cockroach). While many players came over to Thelanis and we got a nice eubies community going, I feel the old esprit de corps is gone.
/rant off

then come back, sucker^^
we even started running abbot again

[Loki]

Loot rules are weaksauce. OTOH, caring about the fact that weak people have loot rules is even weaker sauce.

How weak is the sauce if you care about weaksauce people caring about weak people having loot rules? Cause I see that here a lot.

Play. Have fun. If it bothers you that someone doesn't want to share their toy truck with you because they prefer to give it to their friend, just play with other people or go get your own toy truck.

The only way to make this analogy any more accurate is to add the fact that the shiny new toy truck is a birthday gift from Uncle Harry. Or Uncle Sully. Or Aunt Lailat.

[Thorzian]

pm the guild name pls

everyone in thelanis knows the guild name. honestly, if you need to ask you don't raid enough to have an issue withit.

[Iambeastx]

1) self
2) brother (family)
3) guild
4) friends
5) puggers

I basically follow the same steps as mentioned above.
If i don't need it, it gets passed to family first and sometimes with preferences that are obvious.

I do work by guildies first IF there is only one or two in the raid group but only for Btc/Bta stuff that they NEED, but if in a raid we have 10 Claw and 2 puggers/friends it will go for roll.

At the end of the day your guildie watches your back, as do your friends (though possibly not as often), getting them the items they need helps you.

And yes there is a very important difference between need and want.

[Bladecutter563]

As for being "privileged" to raid with "elite" guilds and getting preferential treatment, well, I don't even know what to write to that. I chuckled a little though...

E.

I thought the exact same thing. Lots of unwarranted self-importance.

As for the topic, my loot is my loot. If someone doesn't like what I do with it, tough. They can whine all they like, I've dealt with worse.

[gemineye]

I thought the exact same thing. Lots of unwarranted self-importance.

As for the topic, my loot is my loot. If someone doesn't like what I do with it, tough. They can whine all they like, I've dealt with worse.

/grabs Popcorn....This could get good...

[HumanJHawkins]

How weak is the sauce if you care about weaksauce people caring about weak people having loot rules? Cause I see that here a lot.

Actually, that is teh uberz-sauce (or as it is properly pronounced in it's native Japanese, "Teh Uberzasu"). It works like a double negative, and comes out positive.

[Renegade66]

I thought the exact same thing. Lots of unwarranted self-importance.

I'm not sure I understand the criticism here.

I didn't coin the term "elite guild". There are many guilds out there. Some are really new with very few experienced players. Some are established and solid. Some are very good. Some are excellent, almost exclusively filled with very experienced players, who have the gear and have a firm grasp of the skills required to play the game well. Where you draw the line is for each person to decide, but the top guilds are almost always referred to as "elite guilds". There's nothing "self important" about it. It's merely a way to communicate that you are talking about a certain type of guild versus another.

I'm not sure I used the word "privileged", but it works in any event.

Expectations:
1) If you run with an inexperienced guild, you can expect your success rate to be low and your resource usage to be high. If you need a completion and have no other option you are left with making the most out of it.

2) If you run with a solid guild, your success rate will be higher and your resource consumption less. However, the solid guild will most likely keep the loot within guild so your chance on rolling on their loot isn't that tremendous. These guilds are only a little selective, so nameless pileons have a decent chance of getting in.

3) If you run with an "elite guild", your success rate will be near 100%, resource usage will be 0 or you will be compensated, and the speed with be much faster than with other guilds. These guilds tend to be selective in who they take and will take the skilled over the nameless pileon. Not everyone will be allowed to join, so by definition, it can be considered a "privilege" to be accepted. Not a "self-importance" thing, just a fact.

No matter how you dice it, running with elite guilds offers benefits over running with non elite guilds. If you want those benefits then you don't whine and cry about not getting to roll on other people's loot. If you don't care about those benefits then feel free to fumble through with the less experienced guilds.

In short, there's nothing "self important" about being in a guild with more experience than other guilds. However, it is a "fact" that there are benefits in running with more experienced guilds.

[Bunker]

I tell ya!

I ran with a guild in the Abbot the other day, and of course they had thier own loot rules. I mean, thier rules were so WHACK, that my 20th end reward was bunk!

Seriously all, does anyone ever bother to look at the name under the loot in the chest? just a thought.

[Kruler]

I pretty much agree with Erik & Ren and TDE pugs a lot. We don't mind helping those that listen during raids. Many skilled players from larger have guilds have helped us.

1. Wife ( I play more often)
2. Self
3. Friend/Guild
4. Party
5. Vendor

[BurningDownTheHouse]

There's keeping it secret, then there's making sure people know where they stand, before they make a commitment in error. If you wish to enforce a particular loot scheme, that discriminates against certain members of the group, that is your priviledge; the honourable way to do this is to make sure everyone understands what's happening (IMHO). If puggers are made aware of the policy, they can't complain if they choose to abide by it.

What's happening is:
You do with your loot whatever the hell you want.
I'll do with my loot whatever the hell I want.
Simple.

EDIT: Ok, didn't read Rens post about this before I post this. His is much better written, so read his.

[SolarDawning]

I've always been an avid subscriber of "Your loot is your loot". If you decide to allow someone else to have it, in the end it's up to you whom you hand it to. No-one has any reason to whine, because it was never theirs in the first place.

Most of my raiding these days is done in-guild, or with Pestilence or Alpha, it seems like. I've hardly run with Legion aside from a few puggers with that tag, so I have no complaints about them.

[pandalet]

Perhaps I've not been explaining myself terribly well. I agree, your loot is your loot, and if you choose to let everyone other than me roll on it, that is totally your perogative. It might be a bit of an arsehat move (depends on context, to a degree), but it's your choice.

Is it really that much effort to say, "all nice items pulled by XXX members will be distributed within XXX, so please don't expect to roll on our shinies" before a raid? It's not necessary, at all, but it's nice to know.

I've been thinking about this a bit over the last few days, and I guess I'm changing my mind a bit; your loot _IS_ your loot, so if you only choose to share it with certain people, more power to you. Obviously, I'd prefer a situation where everyone shared everything, and people only rolled on stuff they actually needed right now, but hey, the real world doesn't work like that. I guess I've been lucky in that I've not run into a situation where I was excluded from a roll for something I could have really used as yet.

Summary: your loot is your loot, I have no problem with you doing whatever you want with it (including sticking it up your nose). I'd just like to know your policy up front (assuming you don't just decide what to do on the spur of the moment); you don't have to tell me, and I wouldn't force you to if I could - this is a favour I ask, fully prepared to take 'no' for an answer.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

Summary: your loot is your loot, I have no problem with you doing whatever you want with it (including sticking it up your nose). I'd just like to know your policy up front (assuming you don't just decide what to do on the spur of the moment); you don't have to tell me, and I wouldn't force you to if I could - this is a favour I ask, fully prepared to take 'no' for an answer.

Very well. No.

I wouldn't be bothered with stating it in every group I put up or every pug I join.
I will answer if asked, but that's about it.

[Seelowe]

the ppl advocating the "my loot is my loot" policy have completely failed at interpreting the OP's point.

he is asking if it is cool for ppl to exclude others from their rolls but roll on everything those ppl excluded put up for roll them self. that was what left a negative impression on him, not that he wanted the loot a friend/guildie passed to another guildie/friend.

also, an issue brought up was:
"To bring averages back to fair, since they have to follow their rules even in pugs, we would have to adopt a rule of having our 'general' roll exclude them, including items put up by puggers."

generalizing with the good ole "my loot is my loot" phrase is good for other threads but not this one.

p.s. I wouldn't jump to conclusions as to members of which guild were involved bc from running with the ones that would easily jump to mind I have noticed the opposite of the OP's epxperience. to be exact, they rolled amongst them selfs but NOT on loot pulled by others in the same raid. or maybe it is my personal experience and the OP just got a run in with the lesser specimens out of said guilds

[BurningDownTheHouse]

he is asking if it is cool for ppl to exclude others from their rolls but roll on everything those ppl excluded put up for roll them self. that was what left a negative impression on him, not that he wanted the loot a friend/guildie passed to another guildie/friend.

This was already answered thourghly by Eldun and Renegade66 in the begining of the thread.

also, an issue brought up was:
"To bring averages back to fair, since they have to follow their rules even in pugs, we would have to adopt a rule of having our 'general' roll exclude them, including items put up by puggers."

generalizing with the good ole "my loot is my loot" phrase is good for other threads but not this one.

You are right, you can't really tell a pugger what to do with his loot.

p.s. I wouldn't jump to conclusions as to members of which guild were involved bc from running with the ones that would easily jump to mind I have noticed the opposite of the OP's epxperience. to be exact, they rolled amongst them selfs but NOT on loot pulled by others in the same raid.

The guilds in question were mentioned again and again, it's no secret who they are.

or maybe it is my personal experience and the OP just got a run in with the lesser specimens out of said guilds

We are all lesser specimens, no exceptions.