Stop casting good hope

[hydra_ex]

It doesn't stack with songs.

Its only useful for removing crushing despair. (Does break enchantment cover that, though?)

[MrCow]

I use it as the lazy person's Mass Heroism for +skills and +saves when I can't cast (due to current level) or don't really feel like casting (as a time saver) Greater Heroism.

I sometimes use the Thelanian Jelly Cakes on my non-bardic characters as a subtle way to hopefully get a bard to sing Inspire Courage.

[Niclos]

I use it to tell when inspire courage runs out. Thanks

[Quikster]

Gotta make a check with BE.

I like to cast it so I can go afk and the melee still have some buff to damage

[Garseya]

Well, sometimes its useful... when the timer runs out on the songs, then the good hope kicks in... Desert area and quests.. party gets split up, bard song runs out.. some squishy doesn't have reavers ring..

Personally, I love casting good hope as well as heros feast with my bard.. just for the roleplaying aspect of why the bard is there..

So... Cast good Hope!

Why do you dislike it so?

[dunklezhan]

Well, sometimes its useful... when the timer runs out on the songs, then the good hope kicks in...

Quoted for Truth.

Cast good hope in the 'buffing stage' and it lasts all the way to the next buffing phase with everyone else. Songs last 5 mins with enhancements, and - especially in a raid - you don't necessarily get everyone back together every five mins to song up.

It also adds something not covered by mass aid/bless (can't remember what, damage or attacks I think), so there's a benefit in having Good Hope and Mass Aid (or bless if MA not available) together even though they overlap on a lot of what they cover. If you have an enhancement boosted Inspire Courage it will overwrite both (except for the hit points) and an Inspire Greatness stacks with both because its not a morale bonus.

When IC and IG run out, bing! up pops GH and MA again, giving you 'semi buffed' status. (As opposed to 'Semi-buff' status, which is a completely different thing and is what happens when you haven't been to the gym in a few months...)

Its worth it. Its not that big a SP investment, and it is a good safety net. And it means on particularly long/shrine light runs my Virtuoso can do what he's supposed to and enthrall repeatedly.

[hydra_ex]

I use it to tell when inspire courage runs out. Thanks

Your songs run out?

[Niclos]

Your songs run out?

yes they can if im not paying attention

[bartosy]

i wonder or op ever buffed a raid. buffing everyone with gh is time
consuming + most people cant wait to move and start killing stuf, so
its pretty simple songs + goodhope + rage + haste = win..

don't come in here and tell us what and what not to do..

[HeavenlyCloud]

I use it to tell when inspire courage runs out. Thanks

Ditto. OP Don't tell me how to play.

[Quikster]

Songs last 5 mins with enhancements, and - especially in a raid - you don't necessarily get everyone back together every five mins to song up.

Youre getting jipped!

[hydra_ex]

i wonder or op ever buffed a raid. buffing everyone with gh is time
consuming + most people cant wait to move and start killing stuf, so
its pretty simple songs + goodhope + rage + haste = win..

don't come in here and tell us what and what not to do..

GH also doesn't stack with songs. On my bard, I only buff with GH when something fears you (such as Xy'zyy, mummies, etc.) The temporary HP is moot.

According to you, you shouldn't cast Good Hope either. You want to minimize buffing time. Since Good Hope is covered by songs, you can save time AND sp by not casting it.

[Hendrik]

Youre getting jipped!

Yea, by about 3.5mins!

And yea, thanks for the request/tip/whatever OP, but yea, think I will continue to cast my spells as I see fit.

[Nezichiend]

About GH...

Get a clickie.
That is all. (Unless it needs to be extended, which usually isn't the case)

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

It doesn't stack with songs.

Its only useful for removing crushing despair. (Does break enchantment cover that, though?)

This is incorrect, and shows inexperience with the class. Here's some facts:

At level 7, you'll gain access to Good Hope, which provides +2 to attack, damage, skills, and saves to the entire party. At this point, there's no point in having Heroism anymore, since it is either 15sp to cast Heroism on one person or 20sp to cast Good Hope on the whole party.

At this point, the best your Inspire Courage song could be is +2 attack and +3 damage with all the enhancements. Good Hope is still boosting saves and skills.

However, at 8th level, Inspire Courage gets its base bumped up to +2/+2, and with enhancements, you can now reach +4/+4, which is better than Good Hope. However, if you both cast Good Hope and sing, you now have +4 attack, +4 damage, +2 skills, and +2 saves. Again, you'll get the most benefit by using both.

So, unless you are going to sing AND cast greater heroism on every party member Good hope serves a purpose. Unless of course you are going to sing Inspire heroics on everyone as well.

Good hope is just a time saver, and considering how ridiculously long it takes a bard to "fully buff" its a GREAT spell to keep around...

Here's what any bard can buff someone with (maxed out enhancements):

Good Hope: +2 to attack, damage, skills, and saves to the entire party
Inspire Courage: +6 attack, +6 damage
Inspire Greatness: +2 attack, +1 Fort saves, +20 HP
Inspire Heroics: +4 Dodge AC, +4 Saves (Single Target Only)
Inspire Competence: +2 Skill checks (Single Target Only)
Greater Heroism: +4 skill checks, Fear Immunity, +20 HP (Single Target Only)
Haste: +1 attack, +1 AC, +1 Reflex

Combined, you'll get this:

+9 attack (Warchanter can be +10 attack)
+6 damage (Warchanter can be +8 damage)
+4 Will save
+5 Fort save
+5 Reflex save
+40 HP
+6 Skill checks
+4 Dodge AC
Fear Immunity

[Hendrik]

Great post Leslie.

+1 here cause I can't again so soon...

[hydra_ex]

This is incorrect, and shows inexperience with the class. Here's some facts:

At level 7, you'll gain access to Good Hope, which provides +2 to attack, damage, skills, and saves to the entire party. At this point, there's no point in having Heroism anymore, since it is either 15sp to cast Heroism on one person or 20sp to cast Good Hope on the whole party.

Let me restate myself. At endgame, good hope is useless.

At lvl 7, I agree, it is awesome.

As for the skill modifier: sure, its good, but generally, +4 from GH is better, and the skills bonus is seldom needed (intimitanking is really the only place I can think of). It might save time because Good Hope casts faster than GH, but it doesn't matter much for one person is only certain situations.

And, as any zerger knows, you should buff on the run. Even in most groups, you can pass out GH to everyone by the time the other required buffs are passed out anyway (VoD, shroud, etc.)

GH > Good Hope in areas where you have time. In areas where you don't, there's not much point in +2 to saves and skills.

[Quikster]

Good hope also gives +2 to ability checks which gh doesnt.

[Tuney]

At end game I'd still cast good Hope. There might be a time I can't spend the time to get my songs back up for some reason or another. So while songs are down you are still getting an extra 2 damage. And still it only is 20(30 extended) and is only cast once.

And there aren't that many 'great' level 3 spells to take as it is.

[bartosy]

i still don't understand why +2 to save is useless. + 2 to saves is better then no + to saves isnt it ?

from a realistic point of view lets see what you loose by buffing 12 people with gh (extended) or non extended.

12x40 = 480 sp and takes roughly 5sec x12= 60 seconds for a full party to buff.

480 sp and a minute long same button spamming action vs.

30 sp extended for a full party taking roughly 1 second

12 people for 30 sp in 1 second vs 12 people 480 sp 1 minute following people around button spamming.

And its covered by songs you say ok lets buff everyone with inspire heroics thats another 12x5 seconds for everyone to buff another 60 seconds wasted + 12 songs down the drain, not that youre short on songs as a level 20 bard anyways but seriously do you honestly want to hear that same tune for 1 minute straight 12 times... that's enough to send a sane person to the asylum.

for a fast raid i take good hoppe anyday for instance in shroud part 1 or part 2,or reavers fate.. i dont have time to run behind people and be there personal buffbot spamming 1 minute nonsense for every party member.. i just refuse to do that at all. people never complained about me buffing them with good hope either cause well it's sure better then nothing.

Also what some people pointed out as soon as your songs run out the good hope icon spams up showing you that the songs are run out and you need to rebuff.

and 5 minute songs..

a lvl 20 pure bard songs last 8 minutes for attack and 6 minutes on the special songs. Maybe because you have a splashed bard your songs last 5 minutes my pure bards songs last 8 minutes tho.