To all the thelanian paper warriors

[Razcar]

I didn't run with people that bugged it.

But lets also add to that fact that Harry now actually casts mass hold.. monster? (so don't forget your FoM.)

And they changed Meteor Swarm. Before you could evade yourself to safety. I don't know how many times we'd setup rogues and rangers as a "wall" for the healers to stand behind safe from the fireball swarm. Firestorm greaves and fire pro pots were wonderful for keeping a non evasion alive from it.

These days... not so much.

Yes bugging the raid made it very boring, like beating on portals for four parts with a little puzzle thrown in the middle, and many people avoided it due to that and of course since it was cheating. But it was done, on a large scale (no pun intended hehe).

Lol I remember people on Devourer getting into trouble with the GMs because they put up Shroud LFM's saying "Shroud run: no exploiting" - you were not allowed to mention the elephant standing in the middle of the room, even though they were only trying to avoid the elephant

[Poe76]

"You must wait before you can add rep to Petegunn again"

Seriously, stated time and again in this thread, you can buy these items
on the AH, or farm for them very easily, just because a certain number
of peeps do not check the forurms does not make it true.

When we get a new guildy 1st question asked is, what gear do you need?
Do you have a minos? Do you have a GFL item and a Con 6 item?

This IS a widespread problem, you have a ton of peeps running around
without this gear, which is necessary for maximized survivability in raids
and other content, AND is not that difficult to acquire.

When we were running this "old school" way back when we had heavy fort items
did we not? I don't remember thinking...wow this is my first time running
this raid, by kraki I don't need heavy fort or the most HP I can get, let's run
in there and give it the old college try! lol

Just because we used different tactics doesn't make Pete's arguement any
less valid regarding gimping your toons with lame hp and no fort.

have a good one!

[Tarnoc]

Years of farming what? Shroud came out in 2007. Game 2006.

Farming what? Vellah items that give 6 to stats, and titan items that give 6 to stats, a few more points of AC, and....+3 transmuters? Tempest spine loot runs? Nothing took years to farm back then. It was more like weeks. All this stuff can be had off the AH or brokers nowdays with minimal effort. You are actually agreeing with me here lol.

The level 12 arguement stands. You just literally backed up my point regarding complacency with:



Selective grouping will get you this. Too many people want the best of both worlds. They want to be able to grab the first 11 people that come along and plow the Shroud, but they also want these people to be geared correctly so their run will go off without a hitch. Cant have your cake and eat it too here, every time. You might get lucky sometimes but with the increasing newbie population, this will become more of a pipe dream.

This is an -or- situation and not an -and- situation.

You can selectively group, wait longer for the group to fill with players you know can rock and roll, then roll the shroud in 20 minutes.

-or-

You can grab the first 11 reasonably suitable people that hit up your LFM, and gamble that there arent too many pile ons in the group. You might win out sometimes here but its not guaranteed success. Failure is in the works if too many pileons joined.

Each time one of these 0 fort / 250 hp rants hits the forums, I can tell you that one of these happened, and failed miserably.

The reality is: players dont want to wait for anything - not to fill groups with good players, and certainly not for completion of the quest, and this complacency sets in. We are in "do it as fast as possible with minimal effort mode" and expect 3 month newbies to know what we know after 3.5 or 4 years. This sense of entitlement is what is causing the huge disparity gap between players that dont know and players who have been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt.

In short, ironically, with this entitlement attitude, we are actually making it harder on ourselves.

guess you dont my ddo people much yes you can get transmuters of pure good of the ah cheap and 6 stat itmes and everything needed the problem is that anyone ive used my ddo on that has ****ant hps doesnt have the gear your specifying.,..and you lef tout the years of bloodstone famring and the years of planar gird famring and having +2 tomes which also droped like hot cakes wen the shroud first came out in the flagging quests also your leaving out gianthold and all the vorpals it gave out and the +3 tomes that were in said raid......if i see someone on my ddo whose made an effort to atleast famr themselfs some gear then hell yes...but i can if it wasnt against forum rules state a specific name of a person whose been lvl 13 now for 3 weeks joining groups to flag for shroud and wat ever because he needs greensteel so badly thats all he cares about too bad hes gaining zero exp and thus also gonna have an even harder time getting into the shroud.......so yes it is a catch 22.......but my best suggestion to any newb is to farm like we had to learn the older quests.....get gear or atleast plat to buy from the auction house and concern yourself with hps....all these posts ever do is enforce the newbs brain into thinking hps isa dump stat....AND IT IS NOT....higher con thus HPS is a good thing no matter wat quest and wat lvls

[Chai]

guess you dont my ddo people much yes you can get transmuters of pure good of the ah cheap and 6 stat itmes and everything needed the problem is that anyone ive used my ddo on that has ****ant hps doesnt have the gear your specifying.,..and you lef tout the years of bloodstone famring and the years of planar gird famring and having +2 tomes which also droped like hot cakes wen the shroud first came out in the flagging quests also your leaving out gianthold and all the vorpals it gave out and the +3 tomes that were in said raid......if i see someone on my ddo whose made an effort to atleast famr themselfs some gear then hell yes...but i can if it wasnt against forum rules state a specific name of a person whose been lvl 13 now for 3 weeks joining groups to flag for shroud and wat ever because he needs greensteel so badly thats all he cares about too bad hes gaining zero exp and thus also gonna have an even harder time getting into the shroud.......so yes it is a catch 22.......but my best suggestion to any newb is to farm like we had to learn the older quests.....get gear or atleast plat to buy from the auction house and concern yourself with hps....all these posts ever do is enforce the newbs brain into thinking hps isa dump stat....AND IT IS NOT....higher con thus HPS is a good thing no matter wat quest and wat lvls

Years of farming between 2006 and 2007 heh. Yeah since I dont see a Delorian parked in the lot with flaming tire tracks behind it I will have to take your word for that. **I left out the years of farming for xx item because that never happened, nor needed to happen.

Those things were not needed to run shroud in 2007, just like they arent needed now. I never had most of that stuff, and we rolled shroud twice weekly. I was using 1 +2 con tome that I got for hitting 1750 favor. I had a few +1 tomes on dex and str.

What you are saying actually agrees with me though - since gear availability is way better now than the +3 transmuters we were rolling with back then. People were using +5 shocking burst weapons as trash mob beaters in quests.

MyDDO sucks - its bugged on alot of toons, only shows you what people were wearing when they logged out, and you only really get an indication of possible pileon status.

[LugnutEU]

I just pointed a L20 rogue with 208hp who kept dieing in the shroud pts 4/5 to this thread, so hopefully it has a positive effect (and yes he couldn't understand why his evasion didn't save him)

[Krag]

Those things were not needed to run shroud in 2007, just like they arent needed now. I never had most of that stuff, and we rolled shroud twice weekly. I was using 1 +2 con tome that I got for hitting 1750 favor. I had a few +1 tomes on dex and str.

Just curious. Were you using same all-out tactic back in 2007?