To all the thelanian paper warriors

[petegunn]

I been playing my healers a lot recently and i've been noticing you guys going down quicker than a virgin on prom night. So for all you powder puff girls is this hard to achieve?

Con stat item +6
Greater false life
Shroud crafted hp item
At least one toughness feat and the enhancements to back it up
Minos helm from the orchard
Starting con stat of 14+
Heavy fort

As a general rule I draw the line at 400hp for a level 20 melee character, anything under that and you're a fecking liability. While some skilled players may be able to run with fewer hp from my experience the majority cannot (part 4 and 5 of the shroud spring to mind)

I'm gonna call it here basically you guys are a joke i'm sick sore and tired of you and i'm going to go outa my way to avoid you like the plague. If I create a raid or a party you're not getting in, pike your own lfm's.

[soloman]

Gettem Pete!!!

[Gorby]

As my friend Timelord says: "Did your son make your armor out of macaroni?"

[KannyaAryien]

If I could +1 you, I would, OP...but until then, I unapologetically agree.

Please, do not enter my Shroud's with less than 300 hp...those 200 hp rogues and casters out there, ya gotta hold up your end, I'm not your personal healer. I'm here for the group.

I hope a lot of people read this, and attempt to better their builds as a result. Cuz if it keeps getting worse, I'm only healing raids for people I know....and I really don't want to have to start doing that.

[Nouda_EU]

pete dont you love my squishes?

[Elaril]

<generic forum response> To Peete, your original post might be very sound advice that points players to the most appropriate way of speccing/outfitting a character for raids and quests where they will be taking heavy damage.

However, I, the responder, have at least one character that isn't "able to absorb much damage," and it has worked out for me in the two or three Shrouds that I have been able to complete without dying (I'm not going to mention the extra healer in the group spamming clw's on me soley to take me from almost dead to full health, or the other ten or twenty where I die almost immediately in part four). So what, if I know the ins and outs of the the penalty box...so what if I am "more trouble than I'm worth" to the healer...so what if the cleric "just lets me die." It's my toon, I made it, and I don't have to listen to anyone...neener neener neener. </generic forum response>

[petegunn]

pete dont you love my squishes?

Why Nouda you are exempt owing to the fact you have a fine set of squishies

[weyoun]

If I could +1 you, I would, OP...but until then, I unapologetically agree.

Please, do not enter my Shroud's with less than 300 hp...those 200 hp rogues and casters out there, ya gotta hold up your end, I'm not your personal healer. I'm here for the group.

I hope a lot of people read this, and attempt to better their builds as a result. Cuz if it keeps getting worse, I'm only healing raids for people I know....and I really don't want to have to start doing that.

350 hps is minimum for melee. I don't care if ur a bow user and <insert banal excuse why you don't need 350 hps>. 300 hp min for casters. There isn't a single player out there who, in their right mind, will ever think, "I wish I had less hitpoints."

Pete is right. Listen up noobs.

[EddieB_TBC]

Gettem Pete!!!

I was just thinking the other day... where has Pete been? ROFL

[Bladecutter563]

I been playing my healers a lot recently and i've been noticing you guys going down quicker than a virgin on prom night. So for all you powder puff girls is this hard to achieve?

Con stat item +6 Expensive
Greater false life Expensive
Shroud crafted hp item Adventure pack
At least one toughness feat and the enhancements to back it up No excuses.
Minos helm from the orchard Adventure pack.
Starting con stat of 14+ No excuses.
Heavy fort Expensive

As a general rule I draw the line at 400hp for a level 20 melee character, anything under that and you're a fecking liability. While some skilled players may be able to run with fewer hp from my experience the majority cannot (part 4 and 5 of the shroud spring to mind)

I'm gonna call it here basically you guys are a joke i'm sick sore and tired of you and i'm going to go outa my way to avoid you like the plague. If I create a raid or a party you're not getting in, pike your own lfm's.

However, for a level 20 character, I agree completely. He should have more than enough plat, especially if he's doing and redoing raids. It's also hilarious to observe half a group, all fighters, going from full to a fourth of their hit points in a few seconds. I mean come on. My fighter isn't the best and she still manages to last several minutes at least without a heal. Not that hard.

[Dirac]

Yes and this cannot be emphasized enough. Everyone needs these items.

Blade, the items mentioned might be expensive at min level but min level 15 +6 con or GFL + some junk skill buff are not. Also, minos gives heavy fort.

Petegunn, you mention the Shroud. Obviously, if the person/character is new they are not going to have a shroud crafted hp item, so I would cut them some slack there. Everything else is absolute.

[LordArkan]

So someone should have a shroud-crafted item to run the shroud?

[Nezichiend]

So someone should have a shroud-crafted item to run the shroud?

No.

Let's say you are a paladin, lvl 17.

20 (Heroic durability)
170 (Hit dice)
102 (22con [14base+6item+2tome])
30 (GFL)
19 (Toughness)
20 (Minos)
20 (Toughness ench)
17 (Rage spell)
10 (Favour)
______________
408

[Nezichiend]

Wonderful advice sir!

I put up several raids today and I got an enormous amount of join requests from people with <400hp. Casters with <300hp. And when I tell them that 270hp is too little for VoD on hard they say something like "I don't take any damage, I never melee" or "Screw you dude, your character sucks I am teh uberz!!" or "I have never been declined because of a cleric having low hp before".

At lvl 20, EVERY melee has to have 400hp minimum. Even rogues, rangers and melee bards. I'd say 450 minimum for pally and fighters.

[Gunga]

Kik'em in they shiitey bums, mate.

[Salsa]

I disagree. Most of these are likely new players who may or may not even read the forums. They may not have access to these things. Expecting XYZ and is unreasonable IMO.

Whoever I think since we are talking 20th level here:

Con 14 is reasonable(though some builds don't need it this high)
Toughness is reasonable
A con item of some sort +2 to +4
False life item possibly
At least a light fort item

[Pyromaniac]

Pete - As always you have words of wisdom.

I'm playing a lot less DDO these days, one of the reasons is due to an increasing percentage of the playerbase who feel like they should be carried through every quest.

MyDDO'd a level 20 sorc a few weeks ago and the guy had mid 90s hp....yes not 190, not 290, not 390, not 490 but around 94 hp. He was drow, had next to nothing hp building on at all.

I think its time to be able to set miminums if you have an LFM up for hp. If you don't have more than a specific amount of hp for a class, you get auto rejected from group. This should be part of the LFM grouping tool.

[Irinis]

I laugh when I'm on my caster and I see a healer throw me a cure light to test how many hp I have, because I do the same on my healer (bard). Too many casters can be filled up by just a maximized clw and why waste sp on keeping them up? Unfortunately then I usually cry because I end up dead when the mob hits me for more than the healer healed me for and I wouldn't have died with a real heal.

[diamabel]

I been playing my healers a lot recently and i've been noticing you guys going down quicker than a virgin on prom night. So for all you powder puff girls is this hard to achieve?

Con stat item +6
Greater false life
Shroud crafted hp item
At least one toughness feat and the enhancements to back it up
Minos helm from the orchard
Starting con stat of 14+
Heavy fort

As a general rule I draw the line at 400hp for a level 20 melee character, anything under that and you're a fecking liability. While some skilled players may be able to run with fewer hp from my experience the majority cannot (part 4 and 5 of the shroud spring to mind)

I'm gonna call it here basically you guys are a joke i'm sick sore and tired of you and i'm going to go outa my way to avoid you like the plague. If I create a raid or a party you're not getting in, pike your own lfm's.

Well, you can expect someone with several capped toons to have this kind of equipment. Not from someone who is new to the game and doesn't even have access to adventure packs where half these items come from. Nor with the financial resources to buy the other half from the auction house. If someone gets really lucky he may get everything on his/her first runs, but that is unlikely).

The issue may be that you don't need these for most of the quests while leveling up (not even elite). Provided you can exploit the AI and use appropriate tactics (e.g. pulling small manageable groups, focus fire, target casters first, range when appropriate and get shield blocked for protection, crowd control, etc.). The run may be slower this way, but you need no resources or exceptional equipment.

[LugnutEU]

Well, you can expect someone with several capped toons to have this kind of equipment. Not from someone who is new to the game and doesn't even have access to adventure packs where half these items come from. Nor with the financial resources to buy the other half from the auction house. If someone gets really lucky he may get everything on his/her first runs, but that is unlikely).

The issue may be that you don't need these for most of the quests while leveling up (not even elite). Provided you can exploit the AI and use appropriate tactics (e.g. pulling small manageable groups, focus fire, target casters first, range when appropriate and get shield blocked for protection, crowd control, etc.). The run may be slower this way, but you need no resources or exceptional equipment.

You can pick up GFL, Heavy Fort and +6 con items from the vendor, usually with something useless attached to them but they perform perfectly well until you get better gear. I've been playing on this server for a little over a month, my ranger at L20 has 506 hp with no hard to find gear (not had enough shards from shroud to craft yet) but all of my stat gear is L15 has it has +3skills on making it much cheaper than the L13 gear.