The PUG From Hell

[Belwaar]

Lol. I had originally typed- unless you are a certain barbarian. Then you get a "special" package.

[Eladiun]

truth is the only person that I would have a problme with there is the one who left part way. Sounds like even with all your telling everyone what to do instead of them saying how they want to run their character and you adjusting they all stayed but one. So the one who left part way is the only one I would have a problem with as if you working together (maybe not on same page) then you should not just leave mid quest. Also, you managed to finish it. Many of the groups go most way then hit some problems and quit especially once one player leaves. Usually, many start the exodus at that point.

He's the only one I identify with... 2.5 hours in a 30 minute quest with a bunch of incompetents. Everyone has their limits and he obviously reached his.

[Schmoe]

Doesn't sound so bad to me. Methinks the OP was part of the problem.

[calavel]

1) I can't see anything wrong with being conservative with SP as a cleric in a PUG. You never know what some crazy newb might suddenly do.

2) The kill report tells you nothing. It tells you who randomly happened to score the last hit on the mobs, not who did the actual damage. It's a kill count, not a DPS meter.

[Chai]

Kill count =/= dps. Yeah you can stand there and snipe kills, no biggie. With a sneak attack number in your damage its even easier. It might somehow be related to size of certain organs on the human body, or level of in game virility, but that has yet to be determined.

[samthedagger]

I don't think some of you understand.

For those of you who said to be self-sufficient, got that covered. Drank about 50 heal pots, 10 haste pots, and 10 resist pots. My biggest problem was not that I was not getting the needed resists/buffs (like I said, got that covered), but rather that our three TANKS were not getting the needed resists/buffs. I don't mind using my own resources to buff myself when I'm not a caster. But I shouldn't have to hand out pots to everyone just because the casters won't cast a few very important buffs. We would have gotten a lot more mileage out of a single extended haste (or even a regular haste) than we would have one maximized empowered disintegrate. More than a few times someone would fall in the lava and quickly die because no one bothered to cast resist fire on them (resist fire is cheaper than raise dead, so yea, it would have saved the cleric mana). I warned everyone ahead of time that falling in the lava was a potential issue and the casters didn't take that to heart. Even more annoying is that while I was self-sufficient, our tanks were not. I had to hand resist pots to the tanks more than once because they weren't getting it from the casters.

For those of you who said to reroll my mechanic for a DPS rogue, you're completely missing the point. I did my part in that quest. I disabled every trap on the first try and even had time after disabling to pop into melee and score a bunch of kills, more than two of the tanks BTW. If all my rogue was able to do is disable traps, yea, it would be a very useless character. But my toon can do a number of things. She's self-sufficient with healing because of greater mark of healing (very cleric-friendly build), she has a few combat feats which boost her DPS, and on top of that, she's spec'd to handle traps quickly and efficiently without taking damage. My rogue is hard to kill and still dishes out respectable damage. So don't lecture me about how I need to improve myself when I was clearly pulling my own weight, as I always do.

I don't care what your build is. As a caster, you ought to be able to drop a few buffs where they are needed, and you ought to know where they are needed by the time you hit 12th-14th level. You don't need to cast every buff spell in the game, but you do need to cast a few. It makes the quest go by more quickly and with fewer character deaths when you do it right. I don't understand why expecting casters to know their role is so terribly wrong.

[stainer]

I don't think some of you understand.

For those of you who said to be self-sufficient, got that covered. Drank about 50 heal pots, 10 haste pots, and 10 resist pots. My biggest problem was not that I was not getting the needed resists/buffs (like I said, got that covered), but rather that our three TANKS were not getting the needed resists/buffs. I don't mind using my own resources to buff myself when I'm not a caster. But I shouldn't have to hand out pots to everyone just because the casters won't cast a few very important buffs. We would have gotten a lot more mileage out of a single extended haste (or even a regular haste) than we would have one maximized empowered disintegrate. More than a few times someone would fall in the lava and quickly die because no one bothered to cast resist fire on them (resist fire is cheaper than raise dead, so yea, it would have saved the cleric mana). I warned everyone ahead of time that falling in the lava was a potential issue and the casters didn't take that to heart. Even more annoying is that while I was self-sufficient, our tanks were not. I had to hand resist pots to the tanks more than once because they weren't getting it from the casters.

For those of you who said to reroll my mechanic for a DPS rogue, you're completely missing the point. I did my part in that quest. I disabled every trap on the first try and even had time after disabling to pop into melee and score a bunch of kills, more than two of the tanks BTW. If all my rogue was able to do is disable traps, yea, it would be a very useless character. But my toon can do a number of things. She's self-sufficient with healing because of greater mark of healing (very cleric-friendly build), she has a few combat feats which boost her DPS, and on top of that, she's spec'd to handle traps quickly and efficiently without taking damage. My rogue is hard to kill and still dishes out respectable damage. So don't lecture me about how I need to improve myself when I was clearly pulling my own weight, as I always do.

I don't care what your build is. As a caster, you ought to be able to drop a few buffs where they are needed, and you ought to know where they are needed by the time you hit 12th-14th level. You don't need to cast every buff spell in the game, but you do need to cast a few. It makes the quest go by more quickly and with fewer character deaths when you do it right. I don't understand why expecting casters to know their role is so terribly wrong.

Well, now it all makes sense.

[Chai]

I don't think some of you understand.

/in my best Homer Simpson voice.."Just because I dont caaaare, doesnt mean I dont understaaaand."

I don't care what your build is. As a caster, you ought to be able to drop a few buffs where they are needed, and you ought to know where they are needed by the time you hit 12th-14th level. You don't need to cast every buff spell in the game, but you do need to cast a few. It makes the quest go by more quickly and with fewer character deaths when you do it right. I don't understand why expecting casters to know their role is so terribly wrong.

Expecting ANYONE in this game to know what YOU think their role should be is what is wrong. Communication solves this issue. The fact that someone /ragequit tells me that communication was not optimal.

Now wizards can get every spell in the game, but there are a number of reasons why they may not have the buff up that you wanted. My guess is you had a noob wizard, who doesnt know the quest, nor what to expect inside of it.

[Mithran]

I don't know the specifics of the situation, but it sounds to me as though you and one other were the only ones in the group who had run the quest, before. Once you've entered the quest is too late to tell those who don't know what to expect what is expected of them. Tell people beforehand or even suggest that you regroup from the caravan after you're better prepared.

It honestly sounds to me as though the guy who dropped concluded (as many in this thread have) that it was primarily a failure of leadership.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I don't think some of you understand.

For those of you who said to be self-sufficient, got that covered. Drank about 50 heal pots, 10 haste pots, and 10 resist pots. My biggest problem was not that I was not getting the needed resists/buffs (like I said, got that covered), but rather that our three TANKS were not getting the needed resists/buffs. I don't mind using my own resources to buff myself when I'm not a caster. But I shouldn't have to hand out pots to everyone just because the casters won't cast a few very important buffs. We would have gotten a lot more mileage out of a single extended haste (or even a regular haste) than we would have one maximized empowered disintegrate. More than a few times someone would fall in the lava and quickly die because no one bothered to cast resist fire on them (resist fire is cheaper than raise dead, so yea, it would have saved the cleric mana). I warned everyone ahead of time that falling in the lava was a potential issue and the casters didn't take that to heart. Even more annoying is that while I was self-sufficient, our tanks were not. I had to hand resist pots to the tanks more than once because they weren't getting it from the casters.

For those of you who said to reroll my mechanic for a DPS rogue, you're completely missing the point. I did my part in that quest. I disabled every trap on the first try and even had time after disabling to pop into melee and score a bunch of kills, more than two of the tanks BTW. If all my rogue was able to do is disable traps, yea, it would be a very useless character. But my toon can do a number of things. She's self-sufficient with healing because of greater mark of healing (very cleric-friendly build), she has a few combat feats which boost her DPS, and on top of that, she's spec'd to handle traps quickly and efficiently without taking damage. My rogue is hard to kill and still dishes out respectable damage. So don't lecture me about how I need to improve myself when I was clearly pulling my own weight, as I always do.

I don't care what your build is. As a caster, you ought to be able to drop a few buffs where they are needed, and you ought to know where they are needed by the time you hit 12th-14th level. You don't need to cast every buff spell in the game, but you do need to cast a few. It makes the quest go by more quickly and with fewer character deaths when you do it right. I don't understand why expecting casters to know their role is so terribly wrong.

I actually understand.
Like I said, it's not uncommon in that quest at all.

Didn't say if you were doing elite or not. On elite, resists barely help. (for traps) People just can't stop themselves from charging toward the dwarves. And I've had rogues die because someone wouldn't wait for me to disable traps.

That quest is extremelly PUG unfriendly. Or first timer unfriendly.

You would need every resist (five of them) cast on six people. And Prot.
Every 11-22 minutes, and recast after every death.

That's a heck of a lot of SP!

When the real solution is "do not move forward!" until the path has been cleared. And not one step beyond what has been cleared.
Let the dang dwarfs come to you.

And IMO everyone should have a fire resist item. It is just so common to need fire resist, that there is no excuse not to have one. (or the ability to cast there own)

And the ability to self heal.

I like that quest, but it really seperates the prefessionals from the amateurs.
Especially since everyone goes in on elite if they can. (funny when they do it without a rogue.)

[Calebro]

I saw that LFM up and considered joining. Instead I went window hopping Shadow Crypt, and now I'm glad I did. Too bad I didn't get my Devout (while 3 others did)

On topic, as has been stated, if you knew going in what was required, but failed to have everyone prepared beforehand, you can't really complain about them. I understand your frustration, but it isn't entirely their fault either.

[Rasczak]

Let the dang dwarfs come to you.

No barb let's something come to them

[Rydin_Dirtay]

So you admit to party fouls...intentional party fouls?

Pouring out a 40 is NEVER a party foul
pouring a beer can/bottle is a foul...but a 40, never. A 40 has special meaning. Stainer knows.

[Skirmish]

1) I can't see anything wrong with being conservative with SP as a cleric in a PUG. You never know what some crazy newb might suddenly do.

2) The kill report tells you nothing. It tells you who randomly happened to score the last hit on the mobs, not who did the actual damage. It's a kill count, not a DPS meter.

Agreed. My lvl 9 rogue almost always has the top kill count since I did a normal rez on her to change her from a trap monkey to a prestige enhancement assassin. Even not using the lvl 6 buffs from the assassin enhancement she is deadly if the fighter/caster can steal the aggro, even if just for a couple swings.

As a rogue, if you don't wanna work too much all you need to do is find a good tank that can smack a mob upside the head and say "HEY, OVER HERE!" or a caster that can toss an area effect like firewall/blade barrier that mobs think are shiny and you can kill most anything in the game that isn't immune to backstab like lightning.

By comparison, I have run many a mission with Skirmish and had the lowest kill count because I didn't get the last hit after beating mobs down to near nothing. Or, as is more often the case, I was simply smart enough to play with the mob in the firewall/acid cloud, etc, smack him up side the head and get his attention off the caster, rogue so that they could do their thing while I played attention hog.

The kill count never matters if your working as a team. 8)

[stainer]

Pouring out a 40 is NEVER a party foul
pouring a beer can/bottle is a foul...but a 40, never. A 40 has special meaning. Stainer knows.

'Cause the boyz in the hood are always hard
Come talkin' that trash and we'll pull your card
Knowin' nothin' in life but to be legit
Don't quote me, boy, I ain't said s***

[Gawna]

The great part of DDO is the team element - either getting a great group or getting a good laugh out of the giant trainwreck that is occuring.

That said, this post is perfect Khyber material as it complains of a "PUG from Hell" and the fail is clearly your fault.

I don't think some of you understand.

No, my friend, I think it is YOU who does not understand. Empowered, Maximized Wall of Text™ is not going to make your case for you.

[Bladecutter563]

A trap-specced Rogue? Why? Monsters are more common than traps, but whatever you want to do I suppose.

Though, if you're so obviously knowledgeable and uber1337 that you can tell everyone how to play their character, you should have no problem soloing everything. So I don't see the problem, Your 1337ness.