The PUG From Hell

[samthedagger]

None of my guildies or good friends were online when I logged today so I figured I'd put together a PUG. I was playing my mechanic rogue so I figured I'd find a healer, an arcane caster, and a few tanks to make a well-rounded group. Got exactly what I was looking for and we started the quest. My first clue that this was going to be a rough run was when I told everyone that the quest we were running (Made to Order) needed resist energy: fire and electricity and the wizard (12th level) said "Oh, I don't have that spell."

Things progressed from bad to worse to terrible from there. Two and a half hours later after having to remind the wizard constantly to cast haste (which he didn't always do), getting no buffs other than a single casting of mass aid at the beginning from the cleric and a few resist fires here and there, and seeing one of the tanks score 9 kills, which was less than half of my own kill count (as a rogue who isn't really focused on DPS), we clawed our way to the boss. The group seemed pretty incapable of making decisions. I had to tell the casters which spells to prep, when to cast buffs, and even when to cast attack spells. It was like I was playing four different characters at once. Only one of the tanks really managed to hold his own weight. The other two were a drag and one even up and quit half way through.

The wizard wasted mana on one or two fights and was spent. And none of that mana was spent on buffing unless I specifically asked (and sometimes not even then). At one point he said "sorry, but I bank mana pots." What good are they doing in the bank? The cleric stood far in the back and did very little besides cast heals, although I did see him drop one or two blade barriers. Buffing however, seemed completely out of the question. Getting so much as a single helpful buff spell out of the casters was like pulling teeth. The cleric seemed to want to save all his mana for healing and the wizard always used his up less than five minutes after shrining.

Wizards: cast haste early and often. Blur on tanks (especially barbs) is mana efficient. Displacement on boss encounters is highly recommended.

Clerics: you are not just a healbot. Stalwart pact, prayer, recitation, freedom of movement, mass shield of faith, mass aid, etc. are all very useful for preventing you from needing to heal in the first place.

Barbarians: you should be the one asking for blur and displacement. Someone shouldn't have to ask for you. Your AC is terrible. We all know it. You need something to keep you from getting hit 95% of the time. And if you go through a long quest like Made to Order and only score 9 kills, you should probably consider rerolling because you are doing something terribly wrong.

Not that the players I ran with will probably read the forums anyway, since if they did, they wouldn't be making such noob mistakes.

[Delt]

Doesn't sound like you are a very good leader...based on your story. Also, trap rogues suck...maybe you were dead weight in the group too. If you want a haste 24/7, go visit a vendor. Same for resists, you got UMD and/or items. Finally, asking a PUG caster/healer to pop pots in a non-raid is idiotic...UNLESS you plan to hand them over.

[Aussieee]

You seem like you know what everyone should be doing already, my question is why did you need so many buffs if know the roles. You should be self sufficient and soloed the quest even on your non dps character

If you want a haste 24/7, go visit a vendor.

Auto fail on this one, casters can make the quest go fast and I mean just HASTE ME !!!!

[Limey]

PUGS=lottery

When I pug with my rogue I assume I am never going to get a buff. I have a fire res ring perma equipt and my AC cloak can be swapped for acid or electric if needed.

Mostly I have to say I have great pugs but the one you described certainly isn't the worst around.

[Lufia]

I told everyone that the quest we were running (Made to Order) needed resist energy: fire and electricity and the wizard (12th level) said "Oh, I don't have that spell."

Tall tell signs of doom.
"I Don't have/will not mem resists(on a wizard/cleric who can freely swap spells)" = Automatic boot

[Rasczak]

2 1/2 hours on made to order o.O

I would have left as well, but only because I can solo it quicker

First rule of making a group...don't tell people how to play their characters unless they ask what you need them to do.

Secondly buffs help, but if you want haste so badly drink pots.

The only problem I have from your story on any characters is the healer.....saving his sp for healing? What's up with that? If a cleric controls properly the only time he would need to heal is himself from having all the aggro

[English_Warrior]

If you want a haste 24/7, go visit a vendor. Same for resists, you got UMD and/or items.

This.

You are a rogue....you should be able to self buff all day long....and then all night too.

Nobody is going to babysit you so put that UMD to good use.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My original thought was that the first thing you should have done was ditch that Mechanic Rogue for one who could actually fight.

But actually Made to Order may be the perfect quest for a Mechanic.

Look at the bright side, at least you had the traps covered.

As a rogue, you shouldn't really need resists often...evasion takes care of you.

Actually your experiance in that quest sounds typical. Although usually it is the traps that kill everyone. (bet you did on on elite and it was everyone's first time too. )
But it can be such a simple quest if a few simple tactics are employed.

Body pull instead of running through traps to meet dwarfs...let them some to you...they will...trust me. Range any pesky casters who do not. Just don't allow yourself to be drawn into the traps to get to them. The traps are worse than anything they will do to you.

They are immune to holds and have good fort saves. but Greater Command is awesome in that quest.

They hit hard, but if you let them come to you, they usually come in smaller numbers that are easy to manage.

Have the right weps for clay golems. Most of them are "hardened" or "tempered" and cannot be smited. And most spells do not work. Web and disintegrate work well.
Adamantine and blunt will make the golem fights easy. But most groups will not have the right weps. And casters wil be throwing their firewalls around.




Want the real PuG from hell?!

LFM: Made to Order, elite for favor. Ftr, Ftr, Brb, Brb, Sor. IP, need competant healer.

[Krag]

Clerics: you are not just a healbot. Stalwart pact, prayer, recitation, freedom of movement, mass shield of faith, mass aid, etc. are all very useful for preventing you from needing to heal in the first place.

You must be joking, right? right?

[Shaftronics]

You must be joking, right? right?

I'm wanting to ask the same question. Have you ever tried playing a cleric and juggling the SP we have?

Stalwart Pact for me is mostly for the -important- people, namely the tank, or the healer himself, to keep themselves alive and running. If someone gives this out willingly, either they think its good damage mitigation, or its before a shrine and they wanna burn whatever SP left on buffs.

Mass Shield of Faith is as good as barkskin, in the way that if that barbarian only has 25 after that buff, then its moot. That, and any decently prepped level 10-12 character will have a deflection AC bonus off an item, so this buff starts to become moot and clerics drop it altogether.

If anything, the only buff worth mentioning when casted during or right before a battle is recitation and the usual Mass Aid.

The only thing that "prevents them from healing in the first place" are popping you with resists, nyeh.

[Slink]

happiness is stalwart pact on a min/max con dump caster in the vale.

Put stalwart on a caster running vale, dude runs off and dies/res to full.
I know it was a bug but it was funny to see a caster go poof for a split sec then res to full health at lvl 13.

60hp? really? lmao

[Belwaar]

Casters can make the quest go fast and I mean just HASTE ME !!!!

Haste, Web, FW...

[stainer]

OP, you realize you are on Khyber, right? Never expect anyone to provide you with anything. Especially in a pug.

[Arkat]

OP, you realize you are on Khyber, right? Never expect anyone to provide you with anything. Especially in a pug.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner!

[hockeyrama]

truth is the only person that I would have a problme with there is the one who left part way. Sounds like even with all your telling everyone what to do instead of them saying how they want to run their character and you adjusting they all stayed but one. So the one who left part way is the only one I would have a problem with as if you working together (maybe not on same page) then you should not just leave mid quest. Also, you managed to finish it. Many of the groups go most way then hit some problems and quit especially once one player leaves. Usually, many start the exodus at that point.

There are many groups worse then this. YOu have a problme with the way they run their characters (savind sp for heals instead of buffing is a clerics choice as he going to have to do the extra heals anyway, and I have been on many groups where wiz not cast haste and they worked fine as it not a mandatory thing to keep pumping out). YOu should not expect everyone to run a character the way you want. If cleric says he going to save sp for heals maybe he setup that way and does alot of healing. At least he told you instead of just doing nothing.

The problem is groups that have players run off and not stay with groups in fights and pull extra aggro. They are way worse then a philosophical difference on how players wnat to play the character they built.

Have some understanding that people design their characters and you need to be prepared to adjust to that.

If they running around grabbing aggro at the wrong time and making it technically very difficult to complete then that a bigger problem then not acting how you wanted them to.

[stainer]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner!

I would like to thank the Academy, My Producer, the Actors Association, Slink, Emili, Obi-Wan Strakobi, Arkat, Flintstone, Disavowed, Beergirl, In Bad Company, Fallen Heroes, Elite Raiders, Loreseekers, Lousy, many other great guilds and players, and a special thanks to my Rabbi Hordo. A special shout out to my friends Demoyn and Aranticus. I always pour a little out of my 40 for those dudes.

[taurean430]

If the main source of elemental damage can be found almost exclusively in the traps; why are you requiring so many buffs from the other classes? This is something that strikes me as odd, since you can disable and thereby eliminate the threat.

Another thing to consider I think is that when you are running quests with your guildies, buffs are many times passed out to the point of being redundant. This is something of a comfort thing I suppose, but you shouldn't expect that in a pug. It's good to be as prepared as you can to buff yourself via wands, pots, and item charges to reduce/eliminate dependency on players you don't know. Put a different way, there is no disappointment when there is no expectation. It's nice when someone gives you an effect that saves you the use of a non renewable resource, but it shouldn't be expected. As for players that don't realize how useful an effect is, they will learn as most of us newer players have.

Lastly, expecting someone to blow all of their spellpoints buffing you is pretty unrealistic. The cleric you mentioned was correct imo for letting you know that saving their mana for spot healing was the best plan. Especially since you mention that they made use of some of their other spells. Resists/buffs are available from house patrons, and are low cost. So if it was security that you were looking for, it doesn't seem like you were looking in the right place. If you are running level 12 content; a planar gird or heroism pot, house buffs or resist wands/pots were the way to go. Not leaning on the cleric like you describe.

[Belwaar]

op, You Realize You Are On Khyber, Right? Never Expect Anyone To Provide You With Anything. Especially In A Pug...unless You're Axer.

Fify

[Belwaar]

I always pour a little out of my 40 for those dudes.

So you admit to party fouls...intentional party fouls?

[stainer]

Fify

Lol. I had originally typed- unless you are a certain barbarian. Then you get a "special" package.