Best Ranged build?!

[Cyr]

Yes, that is a good build It's all about the dps on ranged attacks.

A) You will under dps other dps builds where it is single target mob situations by a decent amount.

B) You will under dps other dps builds against crit immune mobs by a good amount.

C) . The insta-kill abilities of the build are the least impressive parts of the build as those do not work on epic.

D) You will out dps other archer builds when you can take advantage of your sneak attack.

E) Because of (D) you need to play this type of archer very differently then how I see many play their archers. You are a close combat fighter. You do need to diplo mobs off of you. You should not be moving around constantly ie kiting. If your kiting your dps is mediocre. You need a lot of hit points. If you like building 300 hp builds do not bother with this type of build as it will be horrible for you to play. You can not rely on radiance nearly as much as you could normally for a rogue due to small crit range. In fact, like lower level melee rogues your worth will be immensily greater in groups.

F) Ping pong tactics are valid for this type of build in tandem with other AA of all sorts. It will be a smaller turn around room for the mobs due to your need to be within 30' though...although you can chase a mob in towards your ally and out as they gain agro on you.

All in all it's an interesting build concept, but it takes a lot of skill to pull it off and some nice equipment (unlike most AA builds which can have mostly junk due to their lower risk of death combat style). A more forgiving and easier build to play is the 13 rogue/ 6 ranger/ 1 anything else usually monk or fighter. This alternate build does better dps when you are not in optimal situations for sneak attack damage. It would be a sort of bridge build between the pure damage dealing AA builds of 20 ranger or 18 fighter/1 arcane/1 ranger.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Another problem that I often forget about is having at least a BaB of 16 for four arrows of Manyshot.

That and the small amount of feats most classes get makes it real difficult to make a ranged build that is not heavy in Rgr or Ftr levels.

Add in the fact that one-trick-pony builds are undesireable.

Really limits the variety of ranged builds I would like to play.

The Ranged Rogue really needs Improved Precise shot to shine IMO. More so than many others. Although can get by without Bow Str. Still a lot of feats and the end result is a squishy char who cannot melee effectively.

And any non-Rgr AA needs to be lvl 20 to get Slayer Arrows. That's a long time to wait to get a usable build IMO.
Similar with any non-Rgr/Ftr archer. As you need so many feats to be good at ranged you will be almost capped before you see any real fun with the build.

[LargeMarge]

Another problem that I often forget about is having at least a BaB of 16 for four arrows of Manyshot.

That and the small amount of feats most classes get makes it real difficult to make a ranged build that is not heavy in Rgr or Ftr levels.

Add in the fact that one-trick-pony builds are undesireable.

Really limits the variety of ranged builds I would like to play.

The Ranged Rogue really needs Improved Precise shot to shine IMO. More so than many others. Although can get by without Bow Str. Still a lot of feats and the end result is a squishy char who cannot melee effectively.

And any non-Rgr AA needs to be lvl 20 to get Slayer Arrows. That's a long time to wait to get a usable build IMO.
Similar with any non-Rgr/Ftr archer. As you need so many feats to be good at ranged you will be almost capped before you see any real fun with the build.

I've been playing this AA Rogue for some time now. Click on the link below...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=204628

I hope this helps. The dmg that this build puts out with Manyshot (16 BAB), Bow Str, Improved Precise shot, GS Lightning II or +++, Ranged Sneak Attack, Rogue Haste Boost and the AA Slaying Imbued Arrows is insane. The play-style is not for everyone though. It takes some solid play to be effective with this build.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I've been playing this AA Rogue for some time now. Click on the link below...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=204628

I hope this helps. The dmg that this build puts out with Manyshot (16 BAB), Bow Str, Improved Precise shot, GS Lightning II or +++, Ranged Sneak Attack, Rogue Haste Boost and the AA Slaying Imbued Arrows is insane. The play-style is not for everyone though. It takes some solid play to be effective with this build.

Yeah...looks fun.

I have a Rgr6/Rog10 right now that was going for Tempest Assassin II originally. He is an Elf and could go AA.


One idea I keep thinking of is that Lesser/Greater Reincarnations give us a new option for leveling up chars. The option of being speced one way while we level, and than totally changing focus at higher lvls when gear/abilities would be available for a different focus.

For instance, I still think a Dex Rogue is best....until you get Radiance weps. After that the Str based Thug style is far superior.
So you could have a traditional Dex Rogue, until you make your GS. Then Reincarnate into a Str based thugish build.

For the Ranged AA builds you could lvl up as a melee guy...just like everyone else. Then totally change focus when you can unleash Slayer Arrows.

This could work for a whole lot of AA ideas. Rogue, FVS, Pal... all those that need almost every feat to make decent.

(ranged sheep in melee wolve's clothing. )

[LargeMarge]

Yeah...looks fun.

I have a Rgr6/Rog10 right now that was going for Tempest Assassin II originally. He is an Elf and could go AA.


One idea I keep thinking of is that Lesser/Greater Reincarnations give us a new option for leveling up chars. The option of being speced one way while we level, and than totally changing focus at higher lvls when gear/abilities would be available for a different focus.

For instance, I still think a Dex Rogue is best....until you get Radiance weps. After that the Str based Thug style is far superior.
So you could have a traditional Dex Rogue, until you make your GS. Then Reincarnate into a Str based thugish build.

For the Ranged AA builds you could lvl up as a melee guy...just like everyone else. Then totally change focus when you can unleash Slayer Arrows.

This could work for a whole lot of AA ideas. Rogue, FVS, Pal... all those that need almost every feat to make decent.

(ranged sheep in melee wolve's clothing. )

While I agree that it would be an interesting concept to change focus when you reach higher levels. I would still recommend to most players to practice with this type and style of build while leveling. It takes some solid play to be effective with this build.

[Ethias]

How does 18 ftr/1x/1x compare, ranged damage wise, to a full ranger? anyone with experience on that? what would be the best choice? Does the cleric +1 hit Faith bonus stack with weapon focus? Maybe 18 ftr/1 clr/1 wiz? Though I'd think an 18 fighter wouldn't be feat starved so maybe the wizard level isn't necessary, whereas it is sometimes helpful for other feat starved multiclass archers. Would this build give up too much of the utility of ranger spells to be worthwhile?

The paladin concept is awesome sounding but I think in practice it may not be so effective because of the stat spread you need. Does Divine Sacrifice work on ranged attacks or is that the light attack you were referring to?

[Talon_Moonshadow]

How does 18 ftr/1x/1x compare, ranged damage wise, to a full ranger? anyone with experience on that? what would be the best choice? Does the cleric +1 hit Faith bonus stack with weapon focus? Maybe 18 ftr/1 clr/1 wiz? Though I'd think an 18 fighter wouldn't be feat starved so maybe the wizard level isn't necessary, whereas it is sometimes helpful for other feat starved multiclass archers. Would this build give up too much of the utility of ranger spells to be worthwhile?

The paladin concept is awesome sounding but I think in practice it may not be so effective because of the stat spread you need. Does Divine Sacrifice work on ranged attacks or is that the light attack you were referring to?

I have a Ftr archer who is currently Ftr15/Rgr1/Wiz1 I think.

He is a very good archer. Who does great bow damage.

But that is all. I find him limiting. And a bit squishy.

I also worry that the Rgr capstone may produce better DPS. And there is no way to go AA and pure Ftr to get the Ftr capstone.

But at lvl 1-19, I do think the Ftr archer does better DPS. But a Rgr is a better all around char IMO.

[rimble]

How does 18 ftr/1x/1x compare, ranged damage wise, to a full ranger? anyone with experience on that? what would be the best choice?

The Ranger is more flexible, the Fighter is very VERY ranged specific.

The Ranger Favored Enemies work with any weapon, so against those five types of creatures (which you should really be able to cover what you need, maybe swapping some now and then depending on content) you can Range or Melee freely.

The Fighter, however, has all his benefits tied to that single weapon: Longbow (well, Ranged). If you're not using a Longbow, you lose it all...WF, GWF, SWF, WS, GWS, Kensai I, Kensai II, Kensai III, Fighter Weapon Specialization...gone.

That being said, a more even Fighter/Ranger split can potentially bring the two extremes closer together Fighter 12 / Ranger 6 / Something 2.

From 18 Fighter you lose: 1 Crit Range, 1 Damage from Fighter Weapon Specialization II, and some more Feats you don't need.

Going to 6 Ranger you gain: TWF, ITWF, Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Ram's Might (+3 Dmg), 2 Favored Enemies at +6 Dmg (vs +14 for a pure Ranger), access to AA without having to splash another spellcaster class if you don't want, a bunch of Skill Points, and Spot as a class skill.

I'm planning on 12 Fighter / 6 Ranger / 2 Bard as I level up. Since my 4th level of Ranger isn't until Level 15, I want a spellcaster class early to qualify for AA. After 20th level I'll swap the Bard levels for Rogue levels (they're being taken at Level 1 and Level 20).

[sigtrent]

Weird for me to be thinking pure class in any build but I keep thinking pure ranger works out best for an archer build. The capstone, the free feats, the versatility, the run speed etc...

They are one of the few with a pretty jaw dropping end cap, if you are indeed ranged focused. You also have the advantage of being able to go STR focused and still pay attention to dex through the class and race enhancements.

I do think the rouge archer idea is clever, but as the OP says, its hard to make all the pieces fit together due to feat, stat, enhancement limitations.

[Seikojin]

If you do pure fighter, you can take the haste boost, so you can burst for 40% attack speed, 10% at all times with the capstone, and you can probably stack the tempest set with it, so 20% all the time, 60% in bursts, and whatever other stacks you can throw intot he mix (haste, other clickies).

Plus a pure ranger doesn't get the focus or specialization lines that a fighter does, so a fighter can get more to hit and damage I think in the longer run. Just no spellcasting. LOL

[MrCow]

And there is no way to go AA and pure Ftr to get the Ftr capstone.

I thought Past Life: Arcane Prodigy was a prerequisite that allowed access to Arcane Archer?

[Cyr]

If you do pure fighter, you can take the haste boost, so you can burst for 40% attack speed, 10% at all times with the capstone, and you can probably stack the tempest set with it, so 20% all the time, 60% in bursts, and whatever other stacks you can throw intot he mix (haste, other clickies).

Plus a pure ranger doesn't get the focus or specialization lines that a fighter does, so a fighter can get more to hit and damage I think in the longer run. Just no spellcasting. LOL

I would just like to point out that the pure fighter has no spell points so they can not use the main ability of AA.

Edit; And McCow that is my understanding, but with the caveat that since fighters have no spell point pool that you still have no spell points with the feat making AA mostly useless.

[rimble]

I thought Past Life: Arcane Prodigy was a prerequisite that allowed access to Arcane Archer?

Yeah, but you won't have any spell points to feed it, and items (and that Past Life Feat) don't give spell points to non-caster characters.

[Visty]

Alot of combat can be done in 30 and still keep you safe. So it is possible, even without slaying arrows. If you were assassinate 3, and slaying arrows, thats two saves versus death.

small correction:
there arent 2 saves because slayer arrows dont give a save
its a straight 500dmg on a 20

[MrCow]

Edit; And McCow that is my understanding, but with the caveat that since fighters have no spell point pool that you still have no spell points with the feat making AA mostly useless.

Much appreciated on the information. I neglected to think about that issue.

By the way, that is the first time I recall someone using that misspelling for my name.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I thought Past Life: Arcane Prodigy was a prerequisite that allowed access to Arcane Archer?

No SP to make use of most AA abilities.

When I first heard about Arcane Prodigy, I made a comment about the best archer now being a Ftr who was a TRed Sor. A dev quickly pointed out that such a char would lack the SP necessary to get much out of the AA enhancements.

Technically I guess you can make a Ftr20 AA though.