Advices about Str or Dex rogue

[Intension]

I am a Finesse assassin elf 19rogue/1 fighter using rapiers planning on TR in another assassin 19rogue/1 fighter drow in order to re-enjoy low and mid-level contents with some new in-game friends.

I’m trying to switch my build in an Strenght-based instead of Finesse one but I’m not sure of it because of some considerations:

Starting by the assumption that, above the strenght bonus to damage, the best way to be a DPS is not missing, I’m considering the best “to hit bonus” for my build. The fact is that I can (with the best gear) reach 40 Dex on a finesse-build but only 33 Str on a Strenght-based ones.

My plans for both builds would be

FINESSE BUILD

STR: 14 base + 6 item + 3 exceptionl + 3 tome (already pulled) = 26
DEX: 18 base + 5 levels + 5 enhanc + 6 item + 3 exceptional + 3 tome = 40
CON: 14
INT: 14
WIS: 8
CHA: 10

STRENGHT BASED

STR: 16 base + 5 level + 6 item + 3 exceptional + 3 tome (already pulled) = 33
DEX: 16 base + 6 item + 5 enhanc + 3 tome = 30
CON: 14
INT: 14
WIS: 8
CHA: 10


In both cases:
- Toughness
- TWF
- ITWF
- GTWF
- OTWF
- Impr. Crit. (pierce)
- Power attack
- UMD focus (I’ll reach 38 without it so don’t know if it worth a feat) or Weapon focus (pierce)


That means a +15 on attack bonus for the finesse build vs +11 on a Str-based ones (a -4 gap betwen the two builds).
I can keep 1 feat on a Str-based rogue and use it for Weapon focus (piercing), reducing the gap to -3

Essentially:
15 BAB + 5 Weapon + 2 Drow with rapiers + 4 rogue backstab + 5 tharne’s goggles – 2 TWF

so +44 for the Finesse build vs +41 for the Strenght-based build (without buffs)

Now, I’m considering that the “to hit bonus” based on Strenght is more flexible because most buffs will boost this (rage, madstonex2, titan’s grip) while no one will boost Dex. So I can overcome the +3 gap easily even if for a short period of time

What do you suggest? Will my “to hit bonus” be enough for end-game content in both case (will mean I’ll choose Strenght-based for better dps) or the finesse-build is more solid because in not depending on a time-dependent clickies?




(thanks in advance and sorry for the mistakes, I’m clearly not english-based writer, just hoping my dilemma keep the right sense on the post)

[Goldeneye]

the way I see it is:
Worry about your DPS first
95% of this game is killing monsters - the goal of any melee should be to kill them faster
Your to-hit is less important then you're damage.

STR Based:

• More damage
• doesn't have to rely on sneak attack
• can fight 100% for enemies, such as portals and undead easier
• doesn't require weapon finesse feat
• CAN USE ANY MARTIAL WEAPON (not just crappy light weapons)

Mind you - you are giving up some AC and reflex save - but you can always find a balance between STR and DEX based - so in my opinion, go the STR route, but keep your DEX at 16, and buff it up with items.
(and don't take weapon focus: there are better feats)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

When it comes to SF:UMD - its really handy at low levels to get you hitting scrolls/wands sooner, but at higher levels you may, as you suggest, find you don't need it.

the way I see it is:
Worry about your DPS first
95% of this game is killing monsters - the goal of any melee should be to kill them faster
Your to-hit is less important then you're damage..

That's assuming you hit, which is the concern of the OP.

In those cases you can of course turn off PA and still be doing decent damage due to the higher strength.

OP I think you will find at high level though that you will have no trouble hitting.

[Goldeneye]

Levels 10-20, to-hit no longer becomes a problem

The exception is epic, however most epic groups would MUCH prefer you got the STR route, and just use improved destruction weapons, buffs, and items to make up for your lower to-hit (compared to other melee classes)

In terms of SF: UMD... that is an ok feat for low levels... however, if it isn't much trouble, you can always just use stuff like CLW wands, instead of CSW wands while leveling.

[jcdy10101010]

make sure you have a lot of hp cause you will pull agro. i run twf with koepeshes and the damage is huge with the attack speed boost, haste and madstone going.

[Intension]

Thanks for the anwers. I guess i should follow the Strenght path then

My worryes were concerning hitting in end-contents like hard-elite raids and epic stuffs (I can hit without problems in normal) but improved destruction weapons are a good advice too for epic. I'll save a couple of rapiers and try.

Regarding HP and aggro, having a RadII is worthing the effort I had to craft it and permablur with 440 hp are working fine.
Hope I'll enjoy the strenght build as much as i do the finesse I'm playing

[Intension]

Enjoying some number crunching while equipping before my TR

Figuring out the following:

Finess build:
40 DEX = +15 to hit – 5 PA on = +10 to hit bonus

26 STR = +8 DMG
PA = +5 DMG
_________
+13 DMG

Strenght build:
32 STR = +11 to hit bonus (no PA assuming that a +6 to hit is not cool)

32 STR = +11 DMG
_________
+11 DMG


finesse build > strenght build on damage assuming roughly the same to hit bonus

Am i missing something?

[Noctus]

Am i missing something?

* Rage spell´s +2 STR, which is a standard buff and even self-applicable.
* Madstone Rage for a non-caster is huge.
* Power Attack also works on a STR build.


Being that to-hit is a non-issue in the levels 12+. STR-builds will hit on a 2+, if a DEX-build could hit on a theoretical -4 is irrelevant. 95% hits stays 95% hits as "excessive" attack bonus gets lost.

[PowerOfRaistlin]

I really had to chime in here. All of these calculations for to hit etc are being neutered so hard, my dog is crying.

Someone mentioned that to hit is rarely an issue beyond mid levels. This is a very broad statement, so let's bring it into the light a bit.

It looks like the OP is planning to go at least 18 rogue, so let's just say Assassin 3 for our example.

Greater Heroism +4
Green Steel +5
Sneak Attack Training +4

These are just a few examples of where you are getting bonus to hit. The difference of 5 between a BAB of 15 is minute as there are so many things that you benefit from that aren't even being considered here.

Just to name a few more:
Radiance
Exhaustion/Fatigue
Stat Drain
Destruction
Crippling

[Rusty_Can]

finesse build > strenght build on damage assuming roughly the same to hit bonus

Not quite.

Another thing to consider is which weapons you are swinging: STR-builds can use some nasty weapons, such as Khopesh and Dwarven Axes, which usually have better base damage (e.g. greensteel dwarven axes have 2d8+5 base damage) and whose critical hits can become devastating.

I like STR-builds and I believe human, WF and dwarves make beautiful "thugs", but if your idea is a rapier-swinging drow rogue, then the best option might be a finesse build with decent STR.