Stat damage weapons: Where, when, which?

[Kyrn]

Just curious for input regarding such: where and when is a good situation to use which stat damage weapons?

Self notes on stat damage (any corrections/addendums would be helpful):

Weakening, or rogue with crippling strike (str damage). Enfeebling for damage on crit.
- Reduces to-hit (assuming non-finesse) and melee damage
- Causes helpless (no spellcasting)

Maladroit (dex damage). Bonebreaking for damage on crit.
- Reduces AC, reflex (assuming non-insightful reflexes) and to-hit (assuming finesse/ranged)
- Typically quickest to auto-crit (usually Dex is the lowest of mob stats).

Wounding (con damage). Puncturing for damage on crit.
- Reduces max HP and fortitude
- Found only on piercing/slashing
- Causes 6 second stun?

Personal notes:
0) Note: When any stat is reduced to 0, mobs are rendered into auto-crit status.
1) Weakening seems most useful compared to the others (when soloing): one can assume you only stat-damage enemies which takes some time to kill, and Weakening reduces the damage potential of your target significantly.

• If rogue with crippling strike, STR damage is the common default.
• If monk, DEX damage is a common default (as monks use blunt weaponry often and monsters universally have DEX as their worst stat).
• If soloing, STR damage is generally the one to use, as it lowers your need to self-heal.
• In most other situations CON damage is a good way to go due to the lowering of max HP, often easier to instantly kill on several spells/effects, and the 6 second stun negates any actions from the critter.

2) Useful for monks in crane stance: enemies in auto-crit means your earth strikes (increase base damage, and hence crits, in addition to acid burst effect), earth special (+1 crit multiplier), earth finisher (+2 crit multiplier) all contribute effectively, and ki generation is inexhaustible (meaning you can spam earth strikes + finisher + touch of death).
3) In a party, after a monk drops a mob into auto-crit it is worthwhile to switch to another target: Other classes use weapons with far better crit multipliers.
4) Heal spells recover stat damage. Don't try this with enemy healers nearby unless trying to take down an enemy healer in this manner.
5) Less useful, but not useless on bosses (unless they cast Heal, like Shroud part 2). -10 Str is -5 to-hit and melee damage, -10 Dex is -5 AC, -10 Con is less HP.

[smileyspoon]

should also include for rogues they also have the crippling strike (i think correct name) that reduces str on crit as well. if you have a rogue probably go with str dmg.

[MrCow]

• If rogue with crippling strike, STR damage is the common default.
• If monk, DEX damage is a common default (as monks use blunt weaponry often and monsters universally have DEX as their worst stat).
• If soloing, STR damage is generally the one to use, as it lowers your need to self-heal.
• In most other situations CON damage is a good way to go due to the lowering of max HP, often easier to instantly kill on several spells/effects, and the 6 second stun negates any actions from the critter.

Weakening (str damage)
- Reduces to-hit (assuming non-finesse) and melee damage
- Reduces Trip chance

The reduction from trips is false, as monsters have several effects and all skills as static (unchanging) values. For instance, Queen Lailat's DC 25 Overrun ability can't be decreased via STR damage. If I have the time I'll go rummaging through my posts to find where I did some testing on this (which was made over 2 years ago).

[MithrilSoul]

A few questions I'd like to chime in with here, directly related to the topic at hand...

1. Can bosses (red-named) be hit by these negative-stat attacks?

2. Under what circumstances would using these attacks actually make sense? I know on my lvl 8 monk (with weakening handwraps) I have yet to see any battle where my strength-draining of the mob actually incapacitated it. In other words, every time I've used my weakening handwraps I've killed the mob before its STR was ever reduced to zero. When might I first encounter mobs where this isn't the case?

3. Kind of related to #3, is there any listing somewhere that tells us what the STR (or DEX or whatever) values of the mobs in the game actually is?

[MrCow]

Can bosses (red-named) be hit by these negative-stat attacks?

They can take up to 10 points of stat damage before they get warded from any further stat damage in that stat. This stat damage doesn't count towards being able to make a red-named critter go into a helpless state.

Under what circumstances would using these attacks actually make sense? I know on my lvl 8 monk (with weakening handwraps) I have yet to see any battle where my strength-draining of the mob actually incapacitated it. In other words, every time I've used my weakening handwraps I've killed the mob before its STR was ever reduced to zero. When might I first encounter mobs where this isn't the case?

As with so many other things in Dungeons and Dragons Online, it depends highly on the situation. There is no clear-cut answer for you.

[Cap_Man]

should also include for rogues they also have the crippling strike (i think correct name) that reduces str on crit as well. if you have a rogue probably go with str dmg.

The rogue crippling strike hits for 2 strength damage on every sneak attack. Even better!

[Creeper]

To help answer your question, I can speak for myself and say that I use Weakening of Enfeebling on Casters and Beholders to prevent them from casting spells which works a whole lot better and faster than anyone else here will probaly agree with.

Banishing of enfeebling/puncturing/bone breaking is also very handy.

[MithrilSoul]

They can take up to 10 points of stat damage before they get warded from any further stat damage in that stat. This stat damage doesn't count towards being able to make a red-named critter go into a helpless state.

Hmm...this really doesn't seem all that helpful to me then. I would think that bosses are about the only mobs that have enough HP where stat-draining them to helplessness would be useful.

To help answer your question, I can speak for myself and say that I use Weakening of Enfeebling on Casters and Beholders to prevent them from casting spells which works a whole lot better and faster than anyone else here will probaly agree with.

Again, how small is your damage output such that you can render them helpless without killing them? Granted I've only hunted beholders so far with my THF pally, but typically it's only takes landing about 4 or 5 swings and the beholder is dead. Now granted, a monk using handwraps isn't hitting as hard as a THF pally of the same level...but I'm still trying to figure out how you could land enough blows to render the thing helpless and not have it be dead, or really really close to being dead. Maybe my pally does just hit a lot harder than I realize...

Anyways thanks for the answers. Guess I need to just get out there and try to find things with high enough hp to experiment on.

[Eladiun]

I can incap rares in the Vale and GH pretty easy. And even 10 points of damage on a boss can help...drop 10 points of str that -5 to attack if I lose 10 points of con my HP bar weeps.

[frederjoe1]

To see the real effects of using stat damagers you need to find places where high HP critters live. Those would be Shroud, Amrath, Reavers Refuge, occasionally the Vale for some of the Orange named bosses.

[Kyrn]

Edited top post, need confirmation on question-marked effects.

On a relevant note, are epic mobs similarly susceptible to stat damage?

[FauxSho]

Weakening, or rogue with crippling strike (str damage) Also Enfeebling (suffix).
- Reduces to-hit (assuming non-finesse) and melee damage
- Removes spellcasting ability? Str at zero means helpless, and thus no spellcasting.
- Causes burden/exhaustion? Helpless.

Maladroit (dex damage) Also Bone Breaking (suffix).
- Reduces AC, reflex (assuming non-insightful reflexes) and to-hit (assuming finesse/ranged)
- Typically quickest to auto-crit (usually Dex is the lowest of mob stats).

Wounding (con damage) Also Puncturing (suffix).
- Reduces max HP and fortitude
- Found only on piercing/slashing
- Causes 6 second stun?

Good summary! Additions, clarifications in red.

[Kyrn]

Good summary! Additions, clarifications in red.

I intentionally excluded the crit damage effects because they're somewhat unreliable. (though a maladroit of enfeebling works wonders, having the best of both worlds). Edited anyway.

[Creeper]

Again, how small is your damage output such that you can render them helpless without killing them? Granted I've only hunted beholders so far with my THF pally, but typically it's only takes landing about 4 or 5 swings and the beholder is dead. Maybe my pally does just hit a lot harder than I realize...

No, you aren't hitting that hard, it's only that you're experience so far has been on normal difficulty, which is evident by your statement.

[FauxSho]

I intentionally excluded the crit damage effects because they're somewhat unreliable. (though a maladroit of enfeebling works wonders, having the best of both worlds). Edited anyway.

True, I generally prefer the stat damaging prefixes also, because I've leaned toward weapons with small crit threat ranges for various reasons.
But the suffixes can be quite powerful on Falchions/Rapiers/Scimitars/Kukris with the appropriate IC.
Particularly on weapons which have both stat damagers on one weapon, with a good crit range you're approximately doubling the rate at which you damage that stat (30% of the time doing an average of 3.5 additional points of stat damage).

[MithrilSoul]

No, you aren't hitting that hard, it's only that you're experience so far has been on normal difficulty, which is evident by your statement.

True.

So are you saying that at the higher difficulties, hp scale upwards but the mob stats don't? Because if the hp doubled (say from normal to hard) but the mob's STR also doubled, then it wouldn't change the net result. In order for the stat-draining weapons to be more useful at higher difficulty levels than they are at normal, it would imply that mob stats basically don't scale up...or at least, don't scale up nearly as much as mob hp.

Is this the case?

[Creeper]

True.

So are you saying that at the higher difficulties, hp scale upwards but the mob stats don't? Because if the hp doubled (say from normal to hard) but the mob's STR also doubled, then it wouldn't change the net result. In order for the stat-draining weapons to be more useful at higher difficulty levels than they are at normal, it would imply that mob stats basically don't scale up...or at least, don't scale up nearly as much as mob hp.

Is this the case?

I'll give you one mid level example:

Invaders Elite—Elder Beholder has 1,360 hps and 11 strength.

[MithrilSoul]

I'll give you one mid level example:

Invaders Elite—Elder Beholder has 1,360 hps and 11 strength.

O.O

<-- (runs off to get weakening weapons on all four of his characters)

[Khellendros13]

I find WoE weapons like scimitars awesome on humanoids and beholders. Run to the beholder and hit stunning blow and keep swinging 2x WoE scims with fighter haste boost...they die very fast. Normally 1 attack chain and auto crit.

WoE rules in inspired quarter too, on Elite even the casters have a decent amount of hp. This is on my TWF, my THF barb just goes DPS with a swap to weighted maul to stun key targets.