Whips for rogues

[Minal]

Whips have low damage but have x3 melee range, are considered light weapons just like rapiers, do slashing damage, can be dual-wielded, and have a bonus to disarm. 1d3 damage doesn't matter for a rogue cause they do most their damage with sneak attacks anyways. The expanded reach and slashing damage alone makes it an excellent weapon for rogues.


(EDIT: the expanded reach would also improve the performance of the tumble skill and mobility feat)

[Depravity]

From the d20srd:

A whip deals nonlethal damage. It deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher. The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).

We're not set up to do nonlethal damage, and the armor bonus clause is going to kick in pretty fast. Not to mention you're talking new animations, one of the more expensive development money sinks, for what amounts to a specialty weapon very few are going to use.

The usual response to wanting to keep some distance is to grab the repeating crossbow proficiency feat, which works pretty well on rogues and some other builds.

###Edit###
Okay, I will admit dual whip monkeys would probably look just plain awesome, but I've also been here long enough to remember the fifth dual-weapon attack animation, so emphasis on the "probably".

[Rabbi_Hordo]

You introduce the whip into this game and I know Aussie will be rolling a rogue (see, it can be spelled correctly!) before you can say dominatrix.

[Artos_Fabril]

From the d20srd:

We're not set up to do nonlethal damage, and the armor bonus clause is going to kick in pretty fast. Not to mention you're talking new animations, one of the more expensive development money sinks, for what amounts to a specialty weapon very few are going to use.

The usual response to wanting to keep some distance is to grab the repeating crossbow proficiency feat, which works pretty well on rogues and some other builds.

###Edit###
Okay, I will admit dual whip monkeys would probably look just plain awesome, but I've also been here long enough to remember the fifth dual-weapon attack animation, so emphasis on the "probably".

Barbed Whips do lethal damage normally, and in DDO non-monk unarmed attaks still do lethal damage, so there's a reason and a precedence for having whips do lethal damage and with all the other PnP rules DDO has thrown out it wouldn't be much of a stretch.

Whips can also be used to trip, and give a bonus to disarm, since the other weapon that lost its trip feature got super-broken good in the exchange, I don't see why we couldn't do that to whips too. :P

The point about the animations is a good one, to be done right, whips would require their own special attack animations. They'd also need the Lasher Prestige class added as either a class or a PrE. I think this should be the first thing on their agenda after they finish all the current PrEs, druids (and their PrEs), half-orcs, helf-elves, and making quarterstaves work as double weapons like they're supposed to.

[Kepli_Moonshadow]

Dual-whip wielding, leatherbound drow chicks running around Eberron? REALLY? I mean, C'MON.......

/signed

[Depravity]

Barbed Whips do lethal damage normally, and in DDO non-monk unarmed attaks still do lethal damage, so there's a reason and a precedence for having whips do lethal damage and with all the other PnP rules DDO has thrown out it wouldn't be much of a stretch.

Yeah, I realize quoting the srd is usually a no-win situation. To make them a bit more attractive, I'd say they'd need something like being made to work with either (improved)precise shot or glancing blows. Unfortunately, imp. precise on a dual wielder would probably be an insane amount of dps in a crowd situation (cue "powergamers" whining about how trash mobs don't count). Although now that i think about it, trading half your distance for dual-wielding attack speeds vs a repeater would probably make them attractive enough for some people, simply because you could attack from the far side of your local meat build, out of range of whatever you were smacking.

The point about the animations is a good one, to be done right, whips would require their own special attack animations. They'd also need the Lasher Prestige class added as either a class or a PrE. I think this should be the first thing on their agenda after they finish all the current PrEs, druids (and their PrEs), half-orcs, helf-elves, and making quarterstaves work as double weapons like they're supposed to.

Yup. You could, possibly, use the standard weapon animations (although the stabby bit? ewwww), but you'd still need to animate the whips themselves. If you decide to do seperate animations for the whips, you're looking at having to integrate them with other weapons, since they're one-handers. So you need to animate: single whip, dual whip, main-hand whip with offhand melee, main-hand melee with offhand whip. Really think this should be put on a back burner, but not discarded out of hand. Throwing a female character in some leather armor (I'm thinking Lhor-Tragu's) with two whips and using her for promo video would probably make you your budget back in new subs, at any rate.

For the record, the cleric I play in my current PnP campaign runs around with a whip due to choice of god, and is stunningly ineffective. He's fun, just not terribly scary in actual combat, although that 15 foot range makes for some interesting attacks of opportunity. If I hadn't given in to a whim and made him a gnome, he'd probably have been a bit better at the whole tripping thing.

[Artos_Fabril]

Throwing a female character in some leather armor (I'm thinking Lhor-Tragu's) with two whips and using her for promo video would probably make you your budget back in new subs, at any rate.

I was thinking something more along the lines of Drow Hunter's Armor But maybe that's down to a matter of taste.

[Depravity]

I was thinking something more along the lines of Drow Hunter's Armor But maybe that's down to a matter of taste.

Yeah, that would do it too. I'm a stealth junky, so I'm a little over-fond of Lhor's due to passing it around to lower level characters.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

C'mon guys.
It's bards that get whip proficiency, not rogues.

[Rabbi_Hordo]

Throwing a female character in some leather armor (I'm thinking Lhor-Tragu's) with two whips and using her for promo video would probably make you your budget back in new subs, at any rate.

I was thinking something more along the lines of Drow Hunter's Armor But maybe that's down to a matter of taste.

Or even the Desecrated Leathers...

[Pyromaniac]

Why only rogues? We all need whips for S&M night...

[Chaosprism]

If whips? then Double scimitars, Double axes, Dire mauls, Urogosh, Tridents, Halberds etc.. why stop at one exotic weapon

[habanaman]

whip with a medium range trip would be fun for an Indy Jones type character.

[Ode1st]

1) My favorite class theme in any game is a thief.
2) My main in almost any game that allows mains and alts is a thief.
3) My favorite characters in any kind of media are thieves the majority of the time.

4) A dual-wielded whip + dagger set up is awesome.

Whips all the way, please.

[Rabbi_Hordo]

Actually I'm quite surprised we haven't seen an entry by our favorite S&M moderator duo TnT...

Just imagine what a frenzy they could whip this server into then, hmm?

[Memnir]

I say they should implement whips if and only if they are also prepared to implement the proper headgear to accompany them...
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Because when a problem comes along...

[Artos_Fabril]

If whips? then Double scimitars, Double axes, Dire mauls, Urogosh, Tridents, Halberds etc.. why stop at one exotic weapon

Double Scimitar isn't in the SRD, Double Axe is an Orc racial weapon (maybe when half-orcs come out?), Dire Maul is a WoW instance (maybe you were thinking of Dire Flails? I'm all for that as it should force implementation of double weapons, which means quarterstaves become less awful), Urogosh --same deal. Tridents and Halberds are martial weapons, not exotic, and are basically subtypes of Spear and Pole-Arm respectively, so should be implemented with those weapon types.

More weapons would be more interesting, but from a practical standpoint unless you differentiate them in some way it's either a reskin, or a min/max question.

[Chaosprism]

Double scimitar is an eberron based weapon, valenar special training. It would look **** cool also.

[Drakos]

From the d20srd:

We're not set up to do nonlethal damage, and the armor bonus clause is going to kick in pretty fast. Not to mention you're talking new animations, one of the more expensive development money sinks, for what amounts to a specialty weapon very few are going to use.

There are whip-daggers that are whips that do lethal damage and damge armored foes. However, a drawback to whips is that using them while in melee (within 5' of an enemy) provokes attacks of oppertunity.

It would then allow for the Lasher PrC though. Removes the potential to provoke the AOO and allows things like tripping levers at 15' range etc...

###Edit###
Okay, I will admit dual whip monkeys would probably look just plain awesome, but I've also been here long enough to remember the fifth dual-weapon attack animation, so emphasis on the "probably".

Yeah, like the vampire in Underworld with the two silver whips. Would be cool.

[Seikojin]

I would love whips in the game. But I think they were left out because the main use of them is AOO and AOO is not in the game.

It would be nice if AOO was added. Even if mobs used it *thinks how mired in kobolds would need to change* I would really like to see cleave and great cleave be proper feats that auto proc on kill and do their thing. Stack it with whirlwind and it would be right again.

edit: and I think that is another reason why whips aren't in.

15 foot range in melee? Whirlwind+cleave+greatcleave in a fog of kobolds = one hit win.