Minumum level 18 rogue (rest whatever) viable for Epic quests?

[Dinglebarry]

A bit of a waffle, but I hope some will take it seriously enough to give me some good answers, as I'm getting disillusioned... and that's sad :´(

1) Are Epic quests 'broken' for minimum 18 levels of rogue?

2) What about the benefits of taken more than 2 levels of rogue?

Related to (2), with the Dnd 3.5 ruleset, the only thing you miss out are:
a) the extra many 1d6 'sneak attacks' (which is situational, and *hopeless* for soloing) . Bluff = 1 sneak attack (woop tee doo), diplo = dead hireling cleric most of the time.
b) the prestige class, for example, 18 assassin 'vorpal' - again, not available without 'sneak'.

So, lets say you going for the damage, why not roll a barbarian instead or some other DPS, which is not situational?

Don't get me wrong with my post, I love rogues, the more levels the better. It's just the character class I prefer to play, but but but, I seriously mean, why more than 2 levels of rogue?

(to answer myself, as to why I like rogues - and I've had ones with 20, 18, 19, 17 levels of rogue)
-- I like the UMD to bypass armour/weapons (my own counter is, why? get alternatives on the auction or greensteel)
-- disabling traps - silly as it may seem, I like it, even if it is in the same place everytime (heh, like the mobs aren't!!)
^^ but, a splash class can do the same!
-- vorpal assassin attack (may as well dual wield vorpals on a tempest type build)
-- UMD scrolls, but IMO, you need to make an investment into this, either extra CHA, or the UMD feat or Shroud items, otherwise you not really getting anywhere.

If someone could be so kind as to re-kindle my love, and PUGs be willing to invite a 18+ level rogue to epic, give some advice please...

Cheers for now!

[Vahyor]

Radiance weapon. Blinds on a crit. Blinded mob = automatic sneak attacks and 50% miss chance. The Ai tends to also get even stupider and lets you flank the blinded mob very easily and avoid his attacks. Works while soloing or in a group or in epic.

edit, 8 base cha no SF:UMD:

23 ranks
3 cartouche (+2 7 finger gloves)
2 cha mod with an item (+1 +2cha tome)
1 voice of the master (+1 head of good fortune)
3 shroud tier 2 item (+3 tier 3)
1 skill mastery (19 rogue feat)
2 skill boost 1
4 greater heroism (gird or draconic necklace or self cast from scroll)
___
not very hard to acquire items for
+39 umd ( no fail heal, raise dead, restoration, teleport scrolls)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

-- UMD scrolls, but IMO, you need to make an investment into this, either extra CHA, or the UMD feat or Shroud items, otherwise you not really getting anywhere.

I will leave your main question for someone who spends more time in Epic. But this assumption above is wrong.

L20 Rogue, 10 starting CHR:

23 ranks
4 GH (which you can self cast with UMD)
3 bunny hat or golden cart
3 +6 chr item
5 rogue skill boost
1 voice of the master
---
39 UMD

No raid loot, no crafting, no rare loot, low starting CHR, and yet no fail raise dead and heal/reconstruct scrolls.

[Trillea]

A bit of a waffle, but I hope some will take it seriously enough to give me some good answers, as I'm getting disillusioned... and that's sad :´(

1) Are Epic quests 'broken' for minimum 18 levels of rogue?
Not as long as you have a lot of HP, you will need CON and HP items.

2) What about the benefits of taken more than 2 levels of rogue?

Related to (2), with the Dnd 3.5 ruleset, the only thing you miss out are:
a) the extra many 1d6 'sneak attacks' (which is situational, and *hopeless* for soloing) . Bluff = 1 sneak attack (woop tee doo), diplo = dead hireling cleric most of the time.
By far and away, the best bet is to have a radiance 2 rapier. Whenever it crits, it will blind your enemies, getting you full sneak attack damage on every swing.
b) the prestige class, for example, 18 assassin 'vorpal' - again, not available without 'sneak'.
Assassin abilities are pretty much useless in epic, all the monsters have death ward.

So, lets say you going for the damage, why not roll a barbarian instead or some other DPS, which is not situational?

Don't get me wrong with my post, I love rogues, the more levels the better. It's just the character class I prefer to play, but but but, I seriously mean, why more than 2 levels of rogue?

(to answer myself, as to why I like rogues - and I've had ones with 20, 18, 19, 17 levels of rogue)
-- I like the UMD to bypass armour/weapons (my own counter is, why? get alternatives on the auction or greensteel)
-- disabling traps - silly as it may seem, I like it, even if it is in the same place everytime (heh, like the mobs aren't!!)
^^ but, a splash class can do the same!
-- vorpal assassin attack (may as well dual wield vorpals on a tempest type build)
-- UMD scrolls, but IMO, you need to make an investment into this, either extra CHA, or the UMD feat or Shroud items, otherwise you not really getting anywhere.

If someone could be so kind as to re-kindle my love, and PUGs be willing to invite a 18+ level rogue to epic, give some advice please...
I see rogues in epic, and they do fine as long as the person playing them knows what they are doing. Like anything else, it takes practice.

Cheers for now!

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