13/6/1 Rogue/Monk/Ranger or Rogue/Fighter/Ranger

[mjrepro]

So I have a couple of build ideas, and wondering which one would be better, the 5% bonus to attack speed from Windstance or the Kensai 1 from Fighter?
The idea is to have a Quarterstaff using character that does nice damage and has the abilities to handle any traps that come her way.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Lilbar Silly Willy
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Halfling Female
(6 Monk \ 13 Rogue \ 1 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 236
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 20
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            14                    19
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    10
Bluff                -1                     4
Concentration         2                     6
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        6                    31
Haggle                3                    23
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  6                    28
Intimidate           -1                     0
Jump                  7                    26
Listen               -1                     3
Move Silently         6                    29
Open Lock             6                    29
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    26
Spot                 -1                     0
Swim                  7                    18
Tumble                6                    33
Use Magic Device      3                    26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 8 (Monk)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Resilience


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct II
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct III
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Lillbar Silly Willy
Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Female
(6 Fighter \ 13 Rogue \ 1 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 226
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 17
Will: 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 23                   24
Dexterity            14                 16                   19
Constitution         14                 16                   16
Intelligence         14                 16                   16
Wisdom                8                 10                   10
Charisma              8                 10                   10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               2                  4                   10
Bluff                -1                  0                    4
Concentration         2                  3                    4
Diplomacy            -1                  0                    1
Disable Device        6                 26                   32
Haggle                3                 15                   15
Heal                 -1                  0                    0
Hide                  6                 27                   29
Intimidate           -1                  0                    1
Jump                  7                 17                   23
Listen               -1                  0                    2
Move Silently         6                 27                   29
Open Lock             6                 27                   27
Perform              n/a                n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                  3                    3
Search                6                 26                   26
Spot                 -1                  0                    0
Swim                  7                 11                   11
Tumble                6                 27                   33
Use Magic Device      3                 23                   26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Sap
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Resilience


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei Quarterstaff Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct II
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct III
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

[tkneip1874]

i am currently working on a similar build. my question is why in both builds did you take ranger lvl. the plan for my toon is 13 rog/ 6 ftr/ 1 monk. this way you get the monk attack speed for wind stance or str for fire stance. ftr lvs get the thf feats and weapon focus and spec. also ur probably not going to need skill focus dd. probably not even need skill focus umd but that u can determine later in life. also get rid of resiliance. if ur worried about saves (particulary will) get a feat that goes with whatever feat ur trying to improve or go luck of heroes and get 1 for all saves. good luck with however you go.

[ArichValtrahn]

Im curious as well.. what is the benefit to 1 level of Ranger?

[LordPiglet]

Im curious as well.. what is the benefit to 1 level of Ranger?

From looking at the build, for the Favored enemy (Evil Outsider).

It would also cover wand usage (cure serious, prot from energy)

[mjrepro]

The 1 level of Ranger is both for the Favored Enemy, and the Wands.

I take it because lvl 14 of rogue and lvl 7 of monk are both kinda worthless as they don't give you anything for it.

I do like your idea of fighter with a lvl of monk.

I put the Skill Focus in there because I couldn't think of anything else for the feats. That is where I am looking for the most help, because I don't know what feats are handy on this build. I am used to a monk.

[tkneip1874]

i personally have very little knowledge of monk other that splashes but i have seen alot of posts saying going 13 rog/ 7 monk. i believe at lvl 7 monk gets there second tier of stances. as for 14 rog they really do not gain anything over 13 (13 gets additional sneak attack bonus and bonus rog feat). as far as ranger for wands and favored enemy, that will be good at low levels for want usage but at high end your umd should be high enough to use any wand or scroll. as for the favor enemy, it is not worth it in my opinion

[Rydin_Dirtay]

Agreed, I don't see Ranger 1 as being that necessary except at the lowest levels...unless you really want the FE and bow strength, etc. With UMD investment you'll easily use CMW wands by mid-levels as was said.

Doesn't Monk7 give a self-healing capability? (Beyond Fists of Light...) That is worth looking into on this build...

And, Fighter 1 has its merits, hp, and an extra feat.

Also, you might be just as well off starting at 15 STR, as with 16 STR you end up odd-numbered (23) anyway (unless you get a +3 tome or exceptional STR item), and 16 STR is a high point investment for a Halfling. I'd consider points in WIS for AC, or, since you likely won't have enough AC to matter without gear, maybe points in CHA to help with the aforementioned UMD.

[MrCow]

Agreed, I don't see Ranger 1 as being that necessary except at the lowest levels...unless you really want the FE and bow strength, etc.

Depending on the goals of the character, Ranger Sprint Boost I can be very handy (especially on a character with innate run speed like monks and acrobats).

[mjrepro]

I think someone mentioned doing a 13/6/1 Rogue/Fighter/Monk and on that basis tried building it out and liked it. I also swapped from Halfling to Warforged on the basis that with those, I was allocating all my points for the PrE's anyway, so wasn't able to get but 3 of the guile anyway, and this way I can do the warforged PA instead. Looks something like

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Warforged Male
(6 Fighter \ 1 Monk \ 13 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 278
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 16
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            14                    19
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                6                     8
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    10
Bluff                 1                     3
Concentration         3                     5
Diplomacy             1                     3
Disable Device        5                    27
Haggle                5                     6
Heal                 -2                    -1
Hide                  6                    26
Intimidate            1                     3
Jump                  7                    16
Listen               -2                    -1
Move Silently         6                    27
Open Lock             6                    27
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                    25
Spot                 -2                    -1
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                6                    33
Use Magic Device      5                    25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Sap


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Feint


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Kensei Quarterstaff Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude III

So basically I wanted to thank everyone here for their help. Really liked this build so here I go for a fun little alt. (although I think I need to allocate my level up skills a little differently for some more search at low levels)

[tkneip1874]

looks pretty good. i know on my toon i went wf also. i did my stats a little different although dont remember what. i would recommend a couple changes though. i would not take sap or imp feint. i would instead focus those feats on ur will save. i would take iron will and with cha as high as it is i would take force of personality. with a +6 item that will gain 6 to ur will save. i know as a wf you have alot of immunities, unfortunatly greater command is not one of them. just my 2 cents. enjoy the build.

[Krag]

The 1 level of Ranger is both for the Favored Enemy, and the Wands.

With 13 rogue levels you shouldn't have much troubles UMDing wands.

[mjrepro]

looks pretty good. i know on my toon i went wf also. i did my stats a little different although dont remember what. i would recommend a couple changes though. i would not take sap or imp feint. i would instead focus those feats on ur will save. i would take iron will and with cha as high as it is i would take force of personality. with a +6 item that will gain 6 to ur will save. i know as a wf you have alot of immunities, unfortunatly greater command is not one of them. just my 2 cents. enjoy the build.

The Sap and Imp Feint are there because I don't know what else to do with them. Thanks for the will save advice, will put it to use.