Heavy Armor options

[MithrilSoul]

Hi all,

My pally is currently lvl 10. (Technically a 9 pally/1 rogue, which I am kinda regretting that rogue level about now and will eventually LR+1 to a pure pally at some time, but that's besides the point.) She is a THF build, high STR, high CHA, low DEX. I'm looking for some suggestions for heavy armors progression as I continue to level.

At first I was just using full plate of the highest + I could find. Then I discovered the joys of DR, and for a long while have been using a +2 full plate of Invulnerability. However, now that I am level 10 I am encountering more & more mobs that seem to be bypassing the DR 5/magic of the Invuln armor so I've begun searching for alternatives. I did pick up a +2 adamantine, but I find myself going back & forth as to whether 3/- is better than 5/magic. The only clear upgrade I've seen on the AH is Full Plate of Giants (5/-), but every time I've seen it the prices have just been astronomical (500k gold and higher). Even if I *had* that much gold (which I certainly don't), I must admit I find myself wondering if it would be a significant enough upgrade to justify the cost.

Where do I look from here? I did pick up (cheap) on the AH a set of Argenti's Plate (passive 30 fire resist) so I am set for those situations where I need mega fire protection. And I do have an armor with Deathblock (Bloodplate Armor) for facing those situations. But otherwise, I am not sure where to go next and what I could/should be either looking for on the AH or trying to hunt myself as chest drops/quest rewards.

Any of the veterans out there able to make some suggestions for the lvl 10-15 level range? I'm not VIP but I am p2p and have bought most of the "big named" xpacs (currently toying around in Sands and I recently took advantage of the sale on xpacs to buy Gianthold and Necro 4), and still have some DDO points leftover from my last purchase to buy anything I might not have yet if it would be beneficial to me.

[Gercho]

Hi all,

My pally is currently lvl 10. (Technically a 9 pally/1 rogue, which I am kinda regretting that rogue level about now and will eventually LR+1 to a pure pally at some time, but that's besides the point.) She is a THF build, high STR, high CHA, low DEX. I'm looking for some suggestions for heavy armors progression as I continue to level.

At first I was just using full plate of the highest + I could find. Then I discovered the joys of DR, and for a long while have been using a +2 full plate of Invulnerability. However, now that I am level 10 I am encountering more & more mobs that seem to be bypassing the DR 5/magic of the Invuln armor so I've begun searching for alternatives. I did pick up a +2 adamantine, but I find myself going back & forth as to whether 3/- is better than 5/magic. The only clear upgrade I've seen on the AH is Full Plate of Giants (5/-), but every time I've seen it the prices have just been astronomical (500k gold and higher). Even if I *had* that much gold (which I certainly don't), I must admit I find myself wondering if it would be a significant enough upgrade to justify the cost.

Where do I look from here? I did pick up (cheap) on the AH a set of Argenti's Plate (passive 30 fire resist) so I am set for those situations where I need mega fire protection. And I do have an armor with Deathblock (Bloodplate Armor) for facing those situations. But otherwise, I am not sure where to go next and what I could/should be either looking for on the AH or trying to hunt myself as chest drops/quest rewards.

Any of the veterans out there able to make some suggestions for the lvl 10-15 level range? I'm not VIP but I am p2p and have bought most of the "big named" xpacs (currently toying around in Sands and I recently took advantage of the sale on xpacs to buy Gianthold and Necro 4), and still have some DDO points leftover from my last purchase to buy anything I might not have yet if it would be beneficial to me.

First of all, you are hating the rogue level, cause the rogue spalsh pays off when you get second rogue level in part, and when you get umd high enough for self healing, a pure paladin will allways be better from lvl 1 to lets say 11 or 12, but the benefits from the splash will be more clear once you take rogue 2, and when you start using UMD a lot more.

About the armor question, till now, you have had a good enough AC for the content you played, so heavy armor is good, the thing is, when you start going to GH (most do at around lvl 12) you will notice your armor doesnt much for you, and using heavy armor would be a waste (btw, you can get dr 5/evil from a lvl 2 paladin spell, short duration, but worth using some times). Anyway, the AC you will get wont be enough, and the dr 3 or 5 you may get, wont make a big difference either (and there is no way to get a permanent dr better than that), thats the time where splashing paladins take 2nd rogue (or monk) and start using robes and forget about ac, but gain evasion.

So, in the end, my advice would be to keep using the armors you have now, try the lvl 2 spell (angel skin), and at lvl 12 get your second rogue lvl and switch to robes. Granted, the rogue splash makes more sense in a twf because they will have more dex for the evasion st, but as a paladin you should make most st anyway.

Even if you dont get second lvl of rogue cause you want to switch to pure, usually you get more from using robes (no skill check penalties to balance and jump) than what a heavy armor can give you at higher levels.

[MithrilSoul]

I understand (or at least, have seen it said often enough) that once you start hitting the higher levels maintaining an AC high enough to be truly effective is very difficult. But on a character with a DEX of 12 (which is what mine is), I still don't see how/why a robe does anything positive for me at all as compared to plate mail. Unless there was some uber characteristic on some special, named robe that was not available to me in heavy armor. Why needlessly lower my AC by 10 or more points if I am getting no benefit from it? You mention Balance and Jump checks but...is that seriously going to be a huge issue?

In other words, okay in robes I might be getting hit when the mob rolls anything other than a 1. If I am in my heavy armor, perhaps the mobs might also miss me if they roll a 2 or 3. Not a huge deal perhaps, but again, it seems better more useful than simply a +4 better check on Balance. I just feel like I'm missing something here.

[ArgentMage]

You might consider picking up a set of the Tourney Armor (poor man's Mithril).
You're at the level where DR is probably not that useful, but not quite at the
level where you want to give up on armor. The Tourney Armor is nice because it has
less of an armor check penalty, so if you have points in balance and jump (which
I'm assuming from your level of Rogue), you get to use more of them, plus a couple
more points of DEX bonus if you have them (but from your original post, maybe not).
I put the alchemical armor ritual on mine for another +1, and I'll probably keep this
until I craft something or give up on armor.

Anyway, pretty easy to find on the AH or HouseK broker.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...urneyArmor.jpg

[Gercho]

Well, it depends on the level and content, i dont have the exact numbers, i have heard than in GH in normal, mobs have +40 to hit, that means, that unless you can get to ac 43, the heavy armor is doing absolutely nothing for you, i doubt you hit ac 43 in your paladin while thf, and if you get to 43 would be using a lot of slots on items for ac, and ap for the pal aura, i think is not possible anyway but didnt ran the math. (take this with a grain of salt anyway, cause i m not sure whats the "to hit" from creatures in GH, its just what i have read in forums, but you get the idea, than in higher level content, its even higher the ac you need, so at some point, your ac, and your ac-10 is exactly the same)

So, when you say, its only +5 on balance and jump over using a heavy armor, you have to consider that its that against nothing that a heavy armor gives you (not even a 5% or 10% extra of misses).

Of course, if you know that in some quest, creatures will fail a 20% of the time with heavy armor and a 5% of the time with light armor, then heavy armor would be better on those situations.

Another benefit from robes, you can switch them instantly, so if you have many robes with different abilities, you can switch them even on middle of combat as needed (deathblock/fearsome of magi of resistance against some elements are common robes you could switch)
Btw, jump and balance are the most important skills for a paladin other than umd, and are usefull in many situations.

[Shaftronics]

I have been wondering about the same thing when I first started. However, as my TWF Paladin reached level 13 and my Tempest Fighter reached level 15, I decided that it was time to focus on what both of them were good at. And AC as a beginner such as myself, was definitely impossible to fully be decent in. So I had to actually sit and think about getting hit, how do I mitigate this damage, etc.

For my Paladin, I was actually re-using an ML:4, Lesser Acid Guard Adamantine Full Plate. I found it ironic that I returned back to my low-leveled staple armor, but it seemed to work well. Everything that hit me got punished in a small way, and the DR 3/- was great. But the point was, DR worked wherever I go, while the AC did not.

My tempest fighter, having 2 levels of rogue, required light armor or robes so that his evasion would fully be in effect. I'm thinking that this might be what the OP wants in the end; a splash of 2 rogue.

I'll say that the 2nd level of rogue will make all the difference, trust me.

If you want a light armor with good DR, look up ironweave tunic. They generally don't cost more than 20k plat, if at all and have a DR of 3/Bludgeoning, which will work well against most targets and you also retain the ability to evade. It will take awhile to get used to "Getting hit" per se, but if you have 100% fortification (or at least the highest fortification you can have), you'll eventually get used to it.

Also, there are various ways for you to kite around enemies to get hit less, as well as using doorways, letting the barb with higher DR take the aggro, etc...

Its all situational.

[Spoonwelder]

I am gonna call BS on the +40 to hit in GH - at least in the slayer area. My L13 cleric was out there with an AC of only 32 and he wasn't being auto hit at all. Anecdotally, he was hit maybe 20-30% of the time - so maybe a +20. Maybe in the actual quests it goes up but the slayer area it must be much less.

[ArgentMage]

I am gonna call BS on the +40 to hit in GH - at least in the slayer area. My L13 cleric was out there with an AC of only 32 and he wasn't being auto hit at all. Anecdotally, he was hit maybe 20-30% of the time - so maybe a +20. Maybe in the actual quests it goes up but the slayer area it must be much less.

It probably depends on the difficulty setting. If my observations hold, the difficulty
of stuff in the slayer area is about the same as the dungeons in that area when run
on "Normal". But on Hard and Elite, they definitely hit a lot harder and more often,
so maybe that's where the +40 number comes from - GH on Elite. But yeah, so far
I haven't hit any content where I get hit all the time, and I'm right around 30AC as
well, and doing level 10-12 content, mostly on Normal.

[Treerat]

The +40 is on elite-only or the occasional named giant. What seems to be happening is people are assuming everything is run on elite or only reading part of the advice, and that gets repeated without someone checking the original source.

Regarding the original post. With AC you really have to figure out what level of defense do you want. If you're going for the "only hit on a 20 on elite" you're going to need a lot of work (Chattering ring, Seal of Earth, +2 tomes, Combat Expertise, etc) to hit 60+ AC. If your goal is more of a "hit only 50% of the time on normal/ hard" then you can probably still make it work. Assuming an average to-hit of +30 on the monsters, you would need a 41 AC. Figure +5 full plate (13 AC), 16 total dexterity (mithril armor/ Dagger Tooths/ dwarven armor masteries; 3 AC), +5 protection item (5 AC), paladin aura (+4 AC), Invaders ring (2 AC), shield clickie (4 AC) you can just hit the 41 AC mark without a shield. Of course more if you pull out a shield and/or turn on Defensive Fighting.

If that isn't possible, then I would recommend adamantine heavy armor with a guard effect and a strong resistance. Also get a decent shield (also with guard effect if possible) and a one-handed weapon for times you bite off more than you can handle and need to turtle up.

[Dartanyn]

I'm loving my Fullplate of Giants. Dr 5/- is just too good to pass up, IMO. Even with my mediocre 14 Con, Kharrah is sitting at 250ish HP all geared up but before buffs, and giants and other such heavy hitters are dealing about 35-40 dmg a pop (even the hobgoblins hit for around 25, which is pretty incredible for one-handed weapon damage). So taking 5 damage off of each hit is worth (250/30 = 8 hits to dead, or) 40 hp. People pay big bucks for Greater False Life items that only give 30 temp hp -- why wouldn't you wear one that stacks with such an item and accomplishes (nearly) the same thing?

Sure, it means less the more damaging the blows are, but it also means more the less damaging the blows are. So REALLY helpful against trash mobs (less mana you're soaking from the cleric, fewer uses of your own LoH you need), and only minorly helpful against bosses (but still helpful a little).

IMO, high DR + hvy fortification is where it's at for frontliners, even if tanking is not your main area of expertise. YMMV, especially at the higher levels that I have not yet attained.

-d

[lord_of_rage]

The +40 is on elite-only or the occasional named giant. What seems to be happening is people are assuming everything is run on elite or only reading part of the advice, and that gets repeated without someone checking the original source.

Regarding the original post. With AC you really have to figure out what level of defense do you want. If you're going for the "only hit on a 20 on elite" you're going to need a lot of work (Chattering ring, Seal of Earth, +2 tomes, Combat Expertise, etc) to hit 60+ AC. If your goal is more of a "hit only 50% of the time on normal/ hard" then you can probably still make it work. Assuming an average to-hit of +30 on the monsters, you would need a 41 AC. Figure +5 full plate (13 AC), 16 total dexterity (mithril armor/ Dagger Tooths/ dwarven armor masteries; 3 AC), +5 protection item (5 AC), paladin aura (+4 AC), Invaders ring (2 AC), shield clickie (4 AC) you can just hit the 41 AC mark without a shield. Of course more if you pull out a shield and/or turn on Defensive Fighting.

If that isn't possible, then I would recommend adamantine heavy armor with a guard effect and a strong resistance. Also get a decent shield (also with guard effect if possible) and a one-handed weapon for times you bite off more than you can handle and need to turtle up.

Great suggestion on ac. The only things I see are most KOTC pallys wont put alot in bulwark of good. Unless they plan to respec ap's later. Chaos guards are easier for most then the invaders ring and on a pally they work great. You can also factor in a bark pot+3 so add that to your calc and its 44 thf/twf ac sustainable. Defensive takes it to 45. Thats a solid ac for most gh content.

[Tom_Hunters]

don't forget that the simple alchemical ritual grants u +1 alchemical AC.
Just vial of pure water and strings of prayer beads, quite easy to obtain imo

[Montrose]

Passive DR is nice if you are going to do a lot of soloing, or if you are going to play quests on casual. The damage scales *way* down when you are alone, particularly on casual, so you will get a lot of benefit from it.

In fuller groups and on harder settings the mobs are hitting much harder, and so your DR won't go nearly as far.

The same arguments hold true for AC. Even at end-game an AC in the mid-forties will help when soloing (once again, particularly on casual). But in a full group or on harder difficulties you may as well not bother with anything under a 55ish.

For your level I would recommend staying in heavy armor unless you pick up a second level of rogue. Once you get your second rogue level you will want to be in light armor to take advantage of Evasion. If you are still trying to maintain AC at that point then I would recommend Mithral breastplate.

[Baahb3]

IMO, DR is a wonderful thing to have on characters that don't have the AC.

People take a 2 rogue splash for the evasion but with a dex of 12 like the OP stated he won't get much mileage out of that class feature anyway.

To the OP, Full plate of the Giants is very nice and I would recommend it if you can find a cheap set. Adamant full plate is another option for passive DR as you stated. You could also collect a set of Hammer/Spear/Axeblock items (bracers/armor) and just wear the one that most mobs in the particualar adventure you are in are using.

There is also the Stonemeld plate from the Dragon raid, not really a good armor but it does have 5/- DR as well.

I look at DR on non AC melee like I do stoneskin on casters. It eats damage. If I get hit 50+ times in an adventure, which is very likely with low AC characters, I just saved myself and the healers 250+ HPs (with a DR 5 item).

DR also eats up all those annoying grazing hits, granted with crappy AC you will most likely just get hit but for when you do get lucky and are just subject to a grazing hit the DR will stop that damage.

[FuzzyDuck81]

i'm rather fond of the shining/gleaming FP, since it gives poison immunity too which is nice for traps, cloudkill spells etc. while still having some DR, and frees up a belt slot for the highest level of fortification i can get. Later on, i'm planning to switch to FP of the defender (or just DT when i get to reavers refuge, depends on how i level & quests run) & a poison immunity heavy fort belt