How Does Rep Work?

[Cyr]

My views -

A - I don't think they remove a + rep. I suppose they would if say a few people were repping themselves to game the system. Removing a negative rep would be subjective, but until I have proof otherwise, I would assume that this is done justly.

B - I can see giving an infraction for abusing the rep system. If I dinged you every chance I got (I wouldn't) that would be unfair, and in my mind, worth an infraction.

C - I would bet that mods have given neg rep. I would bet that they have given out far more positive rep than neg.

D - It is safe to assume that this is a yes. I did see a mod/employee post yesterday that only had 2 green boxes though.

I think that these folks have a job to do. We can hope that they do it to the best of their ability. People will get upset for whatever reasons. Blaming a moderators for a system that they have little control over, is not the best way to address this. When I was a police officer, I would sometimes have people give me suggestions, or question my intent while performing my duties. My favorite was when I was writing a ticket they would ask "Does this help you meet you quota?" and would reply "Nope, but two more tickets and I get a toaster oven.".

In any event please feel free to look around this site:
http://www.turbine.com/careers.html

Stainer, the moderators do have control over how the system works. They can take a line that their views are the most important thing or they can take a line that assumption must be that a user was acting on good faith when handing out neg/pos rep unless there is a huge reason not to believe otherwise. Negative rep is the perfect example of this.

[Borror0]

Should the moderators say, nope we disagree it's not inflammatory and strike the rep or should they instead moderate and say yeah that user clearly thought it was inflammatory even though I personally don't think it is? It comes down to does the users views actually matter?

That is the reason I think comments should be enabled (for neg rep only). If it's not for the other user, at least for moderation.

It's not like if they can't punish an user for using the comment feature improperly.

[stainer]

Stainer, the moderators do have control over how the system works. They can take a line that their views are the most important thing or they can take a line that assumption must be that a user was acting on good faith when handing out neg/pos rep unless there is a huge reason not to believe otherwise. Negative rep is the perfect example of this.

I think it has been pointed out that that one is off limits, but I will attempt to respond with out getting pwned by a mod.

I agree, while not offensive, it could be annoying. What really annoyed me was the over the top hissy fits that kept the thread at the top of my new post list.

edit to add - I see you changed your post after I quoted. Would you like for me to change this post?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Stainer, the moderators do have control over how the system works. They can take a line that their views are the most important thing or they can take a line that assumption must be that a user was acting on good faith when handing out neg/pos rep unless there is a huge reason not to believe otherwise. Negative rep is the perfect example of this.

That's a great example. I'd argue that if a reasonable person might agree the neg (or pos) rep could be deserved it should be allowed to stay and if it CLEARLY doesn't apply then it should be removed.

So, if I neg rep someone because they just did an extensive post showing THF is better DPS than TWF but I like TWF better, that's not valid neg rep.

But if someone said something that might or might not be offensive... then that's rep that should stay because its opinion that actually responds to the guidelines for rep.

Personally I'm finding since this change I neg rep less, and push the report button a lot more as that is the only opinion that seems to matter. Whatever purpose there was to rep seems to be diminishing.

[rest]

We are objective when we review reputation, just like we are with reported posts.

This made me laugh.

[Cyr]

If I feel a specific reputation (+ or -) is not in line with the intended use of the reputation system, I remove it. Yes, that means that it is at my (or Tolero's) discretion. That's something you agree to by posting on a company's official forums. We are objective when we review reputation, just like we are with reported posts.



Yes, the bar for this is significantly higher than for just removing rep. As always, it comes down to our judgment on the situation. If you don't go out of your way to abuse the reputation system, you won't have to worry about it.



We have a vested interest in the community, and the tone of the forums. This probably doesn't come as a surprise to you. In the past, we've only had a tool for telling users "this kind of post is not acceptable," and now with positive reputation we can commend someone for the kind of post we like and want to see more of. Yes, we do at times give out negative reputation. I have given out 9 negative reputation hits since July - so clearly it's not something I do often. Frankly, we have much more powerful tools at our disposal than reputation if we wanted to silence someone.



I wouldn't be concerned with Turbine employee reputation bars. The amount of people that positive rep us for anything we say vastly outweighs the people that negative rep us, and we wouldn't exactly leave ourselves in the moderated status even if somehow that wasn't the case.

Thank you for your responses. I must say that they do not confirm all of my worst fears, but they certainly do confirm that it comes down to what you think is right and not a 'can a reasonable user think this is infammatory....'. I strongly believe this just means that the reputation system is a stick that you have less restraint in using then the infraction system and is completely pointless for the users. I have no faith in secretive systems run by a few individuals that have inset incentives to not enforce rules in an even manner to all.

As such I guess I'm another user who is turning off their rep for good and calling it useless.

[stainer]

As such I guess I'm another user who is turning off their rep for good and calling it useless.

The only way to win is not to play.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

This made me laugh.

He said objective, not even handedly. They review all posts with their objectives in mind





/runs before the cube attacks

[Lorien_the_First_One]

The only way to win is not to play.

Would you like to play global thermonuclear war?

[Cyr]

I think it has been pointed out that that one is off limits, but I will attempt to respond with out getting pwned by a mod.

I agree, while not offensive, it could be annoying. What really annoyed me was the over the top hissy fits that kept the thread at the top of my new post list.

edit to add - I see you changed your post after I quoted. Would you like for me to change this post?

No worries, I 'm not even sure what I edited

Edit: It's because I didnt' edit it despite the fact that it did not show an edited by label.

[stainer]

Lorien - after reading some of your posts, I am surprised at your positions on this. Especially, since it does so little to enhance actual game experience. That is not usually a stance you take.

Cyr - While I can actually see your frustration, this is the system we have to work with. There is some subjectivity to it, but in the end I don't think it will change.

Tarrant - If you over moderate, the posters yell at you. If you under moderate, Tolero yells at you. I think thats funny as all get out. You are so screwed. Do you drink yourself to sleep at night?

[Borror0]

Lorien - after reading some of your posts, I am surprised at your positions on this. Especially, since it does so little to enhance actual game experience. That is not usually a stance you take.

Do you mean that the rep system does not actually improve the forums? Really?

[Tarrant]

Tarrant - If you over moderate, the posters yell at you. If you under moderate, Tolero yells at you. I think thats funny as all get out. You are so screwed. Do you drink yourself to sleep at night?

I relieve my stress by logging into DDO and griefing players.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Lorien - after reading some of your posts, I am surprised at your positions on this. Especially, since it does so little to enhance actual game experience. That is not usually a stance you take.

If you go back to the beginning, I said they shouldn't impliment it (actually I think I got a lot of rep for saying that ).

Later I came to understand, for me at least, that sometimes when someone pushed my /rage button I could disarm that flamewar and not play the game by just -repping instead of responding and joining a flamewar. It was a pressure relief valve of sorts, and that let me see some value in it for promoting a calmer community.

The abilty to neg rep for HORRIBLY bad advice so newbies didn't take advice from people giving out harmful advice also seemed to be good for the community. (And I'm not talking "I disagree with you" type stuff, I'm talking about over the top wrong to the point where it would harm players who followed it type advice)

Given the recent changes to what rep is or isn't... I can't really see any value left in it, so I guess I'm coming back around to the position that it doesn't promote community or seem to serve any positive purpose, and thus maybe it should be turned off.

And my comments about the mods above should be taken with a grain of salt... the smiley was there for a reason. Of course the mods are going to moderate with bias - they are there to achieve an objective for Turbine, not to create a free and open public forum. That's not bad, its what they need to do. (Even if I don't always like where they land, that's another issue entirely )

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I relieve my stress by logging into DDO and griefing players.

lol, I may have a new sig there

Thanks oh evil overlord!

[rest]

lol, I may have a new sig there

Thanks oh evil overlord!

Samsies!

[stainer]

If you go back to the beginning, I said they shouldn't impliment it (actually I think I got a lot of rep for saying that ).

Later I came to understand, for me at least, that sometimes when someone pushed my /rage button I could disarm that flamewar and not play the game by just -repping instead of responding and joining a flamewar. It was a pressure relief valve of sorts, and that let me see some value in it for promoting a calmer community.

The abilty to neg rep for HORRIBLY bad advice so newbies didn't take advice from people giving out harmful advice also seemed to be good for the community. (And I'm not talking "I disagree with you" type stuff, I'm talking about over the top wrong to the point where it would harm players who followed it type advice)

Given the recent changes to what rep is or isn't... I can't really see any value left in it, so I guess I'm coming back around to the position that it doesn't promote community or seem to serve any positive purpose, and thus maybe it should be turned off.

And my comments about the mods above should be taken with a grain of salt... the smiley was there for a reason. Of course the mods are going to moderate with bias - they are there to achieve an objective for Turbine, not to create a free and open public forum. That's not bad, its what they need to do. (Even if I don't always like where they land, that's another issue entirely )

I didn't drop a neg rep in that thread, but I came close. There were two people that kept going back and forth over what was right and wrong. I almost took that as trolling. Even if it was inadvertent. it did inflame others.

[Kalari]

I relieve my stress by logging into DDO and griefing players.

oh my if I had room in my signature bar that surely would grace it lol

[stainer]

lol, I may have a new sig there

Thanks oh evil overlord!

Samsies!

Hahahahahaha. At least something good came out of this.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I didn't drop a neg rep in that thread, but I came close. There were two people that kept going back and forth over what was right and wrong. I almost took that as trolling. Even if it was inadvertent. it did inflame others.

As I said...thread closed and deleted for cause.

I have to say I do think moderating these forums is probably very...trying. Mostly I think they do a fair job. Where they don't, they are probably doing a 'good job' according to the will of their bosses, which is what any good employee should do.