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Thread: Artificers!

  1. #1
    Community Member Symar-FangofLloth's Avatar
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    Default Artificers!

    Do I think this is necessarily balanced? No. And I'm not sure in what direction, either. I'm inclined to think it's subpar for anyone but a WF.
    In an effort to correct that, I've replaced some of the Construct-only spells with the normal versions.
    I'm also labeling some spells as 'Imbues.' A player may only be under the effect of one Imbue per Artificer casting on them. So no uber-buffing your group with over the top weapon effects. The Artificer's spell point pool is low enough that should not normally be an issue anyway, except most of their spells last 10min/level. Maybe this is too restrictive; if so, it's easily ignored.

    The Armor and Weapon Augments will be selectable from a list, similar to Teleport. I'm leaving Banes entirely off, because they will cause huge lists as well as be potentially too much. Although, if it appears having Greater Banes for the whole party isn't too powerful, then they could be added. I'm not listing every possible effect, but some of them of the appropriate power levels.


    Artificer
    Alignment: Any
    HD: D6
    Class Skills (Modified for DDO): Concentration, Disable Device, Open Lock, Repair, Search, Use Magic Device
    Skill Points: 4 per level.

    BAB: 3/4
    Poor Fort Save
    Poor Reflex Save
    Good Will Save

    Proficiency: Simple Weapons, Light and Medium Armor, Shields.

    Spell Points: Same Progression as Bards.

    Abilities (other than Infusions/Spells):
    Level 1: 'Scribe Scroll' +2 UMD on Scroll usage
    Level 2: 'Brew Potion' My vote on this is either a toggle that allows potion usage on others, or a passive ability that gives +1/2 Artificer level to the caster level of self-imbibed potions.
    Level 3: 'Craft Wondrous Item' +2 UMD on gear equip checks for accessories.
    Level 4: 'Homonculus' If they ever put in familiars.
    Level 4/8/12/16/20: Bonus Feat: The options listed are poor, so I'd open it up to metamagics and the like.
    Level 5: 'Craft Magic Arms and Armor' +2 UMD on gear equip checks for armor and weapons.
    Level 6: Metamagic Spell Trigger- Expend more charges from a wand or clicky to apply Metamagic effects to them (must have the feat).
    Level 7: 'Craft Wand' +2 UMD to Wand usage.
    Level 11: Metamagic Spell Completion- Add Metamagic feats to Scrolls, but at significantly higher UMD DC.

    I skipped on a couple 'crafting' abilities, as I covered what they do with earlier abilities. And yes, the +2 UMD is a class feature for Artificers that they gain with the crafting feats. The issue is that true D&D crafting is not in game, and any buff they may get to existing crafting is too much. Perhaps a free ingredients bag that expands with level.



    Infusions (Neither Arcane nor Divine, therefore no ASF, follow all other spell rules)

    Level 1:
    Lesser Armor Enhancement- (Imbue) Self or Ally's Armor gains a +1 ability (Light Fort, Silent Moves, Shadow)
    Energy Alteration- (Imbue) Self or Ally's Weapon effects now deal <element> damage
    Inflict Light Damage- As Inflict Light Wounds, but only on Constructs
    Magic Stone- 'Ray' attack, 3d6+3 damage
    Repair Light Damage
    Shield of Faith
    Skill Enhancement- (Imbue) Self or Ally gains +1/2levels circumstance bonus to <skill>
    Personal Weapon Augmentation- Self Weapon gains +1 ability (Flaming/Frost/Shock/Acid, Keen, Ghost Touch)

    Level 2:
    Align Weapon- (Imbue) Self or Ally's Weapon counts as <alignment> for DR
    Armor Enhancement- (Imbue) Self or Ally's Armor gains +3 ability (<elemental) Resistance 10, Ghost Touch, Invulnerability, Moderate Fortification)
    Bear's Endurance
    Bull's Strength
    Cat's Grace
    Eagle's Splendor
    Owl's Wisdom
    Fox's Cunning
    Inflict Moderate Damage- As Inflict Moderate Wounds, but Constructs only
    Repair Moderate Damage
    Toughen Construct- Self or Ally Construct gains +2 Natural AC (stacks with other NA bonuses)
    Lesser Weapon Augmentation- (Imbue) Self or Ally's Weapon gains +1 ability (Flaming/Frost/Shock/Acid, Keen, Ghost Touch)

    Level 3:
    Greater Armor Enhancement- (Imbue) Self or Ally's Armor gains a +5 bonus (Heavy Fort, SR19, <elemental> Resists 30)
    Energy Resistance
    Inflict Serious Damage- As Inflict Serious Wounds, but Construct only
    Power Surge- Wand/Clicky gains Temporary charges (possibly implemented as a buff that causes wands/clickies to expend SP instead of charges)
    Repair Serious Damage
    Stoneskin

    Level 4:
    Protection from Energy
    Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
    Inflict Critical Damage- As Inflict Critical Wounds, but Construct only
    Iron Construct- Construct gains DR15/Ada, 50% Fire and Acid resist
    Repair Critical
    Mass Shield of Faith
    Weapon Augmentation- (Imbue) Self or Ally's Weapon gains a +3 Ability (Wounding/etc, <elemental> Burst, Holy/Unholy/Axiomatic/Anarchic)

    Level 5:
    Disrupting Weapon- (Imbue) Self or Ally's Weapon gains Disruption
    Wall of Force- Impassible Wall that also blocks ghosts
    Wall of Stone-

    Level 6:
    Blade Barrier
    Disable Construct- As Harm, but Constructs only
    Globe of Invulnerability
    Reconstruct
    Wall of Iron- Wall that can be pushed over, causing 10d6 damage to creatures it lands on.
    Greater Weapon Augmentation- (Imbue) Self or Ally's Weapon gains +5 ability (Vorpal)

    Well, it's a start. They need a few more spells, or combat/buff versions of some of the creation spells. Or something. But it's decent enough.
    Former Xoriat-er. Embrace the Madness.

  2. #2
    Community Member LunaCee's Avatar
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    One should not forget to mention that the Artificer skill mastery is special in that it allows a take 10 on UMD checks. Therefore at that level any roll of LESS than 10 gets treated instead as if they rolled a 10.

    Their "open" bonus feats were already allowing metamagic in addition to the listed feats. Because it says:
    In addition a Artificer gains a bonus feat at 4th level and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, 20th). For each of these bonus feats the artificer must chose a metamagic feat or a feat from the following list: /snip

    Though I do have to say that if they put artificer in, I'd likely roll up a WF version with a monk splash. Or a halfling version with a rogue splash. Would make a great candidate for using the kukri from the Sentinels quest chain.

  3. #3
    Community Member Symar-FangofLloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaCee View Post
    One should not forget to mention that the Artificer skill mastery is special in that it allows a take 10 on UMD checks. Therefore at that level any roll of LESS than 10 gets treated instead as if they rolled a 10.

    Their "open" bonus feats were already allowing metamagic in addition to the listed feats.
    Ahhh, I missed that about the bonus feats. Thanks.

    And you *could* interpret Take 10 that way, but that's now how it works in tabletop. You either choose to roll, or choose to automatically have a 10. It could be a nice feature though.
    Former Xoriat-er. Embrace the Madness.

  4. #4

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    THey said they were looking into it. Druids first.
    +The Goddess of Tempest's Spine+Merc's Only, THELANIS: List is here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...94#post2798094 LEGIONNAIRE /Salute to Rameses, He has RETURNED!

  5. #5
    Community Member rezo's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    /Artificers first!!! hehe
    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    No one that throws together a bunch of numbers and calls it fact is going to give you and real accurate answer, there's too many variables and it's all biased towards there own personal outlooks on how it should be, not how it is. Numbers are too easy to manipulate.
    So sad but true.

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    Ah, the artificer. Possibly my most favorite class to play in a non-published game.

    I have great memories of wildshaping like a druid, turning undead better than the cleric, walking around with a small army of golems and being basically near invincible (warforged artificer).

    I have something I like to say about artificers...

    "Anything your class can do, I can do too, possibly better."

  7. #7
    Community Member Symar-FangofLloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    "Anything your class can do, I can do too, possibly better."
    Assuming they can find a scroll of the spell, or the like, I agree.

    They're an interesting class. One that I've not had the chance to play yet (only Eberron campaign I was in already had two warforged artificers, although with various multiclasses).
    I think they could work here. I used to be opposed, but I think they can work now. And I think the way handwraps and some armors work, as well as the Arcane Archer, is a step closer towards them.
    Former Xoriat-er. Embrace the Madness.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symar-FangofLloth View Post
    Assuming they can find a scroll of the spell, or the like, I agree.
    Why would they bother to find one? They can just scribe it, or better yet, craft an item that casts it for them. They don't need to cast the spell, they make a DC = 20 + Spell Level UMD check to emulate casting the spell for purposes of item creation.

    Scrolls aren't the strongest fundamental part of the class though, it's crafting.

    Do I want to wildshape? Craft a Druid's Vestment, Use Magic Device to emulate the druid's wildshape ability, and use the charge on the vest to wildshape.

    Do I want to turn undead? Craft a Phylactery of Undead Turning and a Nightstick. Use Magic Device to emulate the cleric's Turn Undead class feature, and use one of the charges on the Nightstick to turn some undead.

    Do I want to cast spells? No problem. Craft items that cast the spell for you. Bandages that cast heal...a watch that casts Time Stop...the sky is the limit. Oh, and don't forget, the artificer can cast powerful spells 2 levels before even the wizard and cleric can do it.

    Since, in my opinion, a well-run game is fluid and infinite in experience, the Artificer is the ultimate class in a game of this type. Does he care that he uses experience to craft? No, because he gains experience faster than the characters that aren't. Eventually, he will nearly catch up, and be incredibly powerful with the potent tools in his arsenal.

  9. #9
    Community Member Symar-FangofLloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    Why would they bother to find one? They can just scribe it, or better yet, craft an item that casts it for them. They don't need to cast the spell, they make a DC = 20 + Spell Level UMD check to emulate casting the spell for purposes of item creation.
    Ahh, okay. I had missed that part as well.

    I wonder if there's some way we can implement a similar thing...
    Former Xoriat-er. Embrace the Madness.

  10. #10
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Have you seen the DDO crafting situation lately?

    Artificers would be so subpar here....
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  11. #11
    Founder Aesop's Avatar
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    Artificers would be a great addition.

    WIthout crafting its weaker than it would be in pnp, but there are things that can be applied to make it work.

    Like for the effects that apply metamagics to items ... just have it cost SP but apply them to the spells.

    Have DC and caster level boosts to items built into the class.

    Let them pull the Pet Class thing with golems. Starting off with Iron Defenders and moving on up from there to Iron Golems and maybe even Warforged Titans

    Use the Hireling Tech to do it. that way you can have more control over the pets than over the normal summoned critters... use the same tech for Druid Companions

    Aesop
    Last edited by Aesop; 04-29-2010 at 06:21 PM.
    Rule 1: Don't sweat the small stuff
    Rule 2: Its all small stuff
    Rule 3: People are stupid. You, me everyone... expect it
    more rules to come in a different sig

  12. #12
    Founder Aesop's Avatar
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    Artificer

    Alignment: Any
    Hit Die: d6
    Skill Points: 4+Int
    Skill List: Concentration, Disable Device, Haggle, Open Locks, Search, Use Magic Device.

    BAB: ¾
    Fortitude: poor
    Reflex: poor
    Will: good

    Level 1: Disable Trap, Clockwork Companion (Iron Defender)
    Level 2: Artificer Power +1
    Level 3: Artificer Knowledge +1
    Level 4: Artificer power +2, Bonus Feat
    Level 5: Clockwork Companion (Mithril Defender)
    Level 6: Artificer Knowledge +2, Artificer Power +3, Metamagic Spell Trigger
    Level 7:
    Level 8: Artificer Power +4, Bonus Feat
    Level 9: Artificer Knowledge +3
    Level 10: Artificer Power +5, Clockwork Companion (Shield Guardian)
    Level 11: Metamagic Spell Completion
    Level 12: Artificer Knowledge +4, Artificer Power +6, Bonus Feat
    Level 13: Skill Mastery
    Level 14: Artificer Power +7
    Level 15: Artificer Knowledge +5, Clockwork Companion (Iron Golem)
    Level 16: Artificer Power +8, Bonus Feat
    Level 17: Improved Skill Mastery
    Level 18: Artificer Knowledge +6, Artificer Power +9
    Level 19:
    Level 20: Artificer Power +10, Bonus Feat, Clockwork Companion (Warforged Titan)

    Disable Trap: Can Search for and Disable Traps like a Rogue.

    Clockwork Companion: golems that the Artificer can create. Only one may be active at a time. Companions follow the commands of the Artificer as per Hirelings.

    Artificer Power: Increases the Caster Level spell effects cast from items by the listed amount to a maximum of the Artificers Class level.

    Artificer Knowledge: Increases the DC of spell effects cast from items by the listed amount.

    Bonus Feats: As per the Wizard Bonus Feat list

    Metamagic Spell Trigger (active): Metamagic Feats may be applied to Wands while this Feat is active. The metamagic feats cost the requisite Spell Points that they would if applied to a spell.

    Metamagic Spell Completion (active): Metamagic Feats may be applied to Scrolls while this Feat is active. The metamagic feats cost the requisite Spell Points that they would if applied to a spell.

    Skill Mastery: As Rogue Special Ability. +1 to all Skills

    Improved Skill Mastery: +2 to all Skills (stacks with Skill Mastery for a total of +3)



    Infusions: For ease of Transition Infusions are essentially Spells by another name. There are 6 levels worth and the progression would match up similar to the DDO bard spell progression and Spell Point pool.

    These “spells” would take the form of party buffs and Construct healing and destruction effects mostly.


    Enhancements:
    Artificer Concentration 1-4
    Artificer: Disable Device 1-4
    Artificer: Open Lock 1-4
    Artificer: Search 1-4
    Artificer: Use Magic Device 1-4
    Artificer: Intelligence 1-3
    Artificer: Charisma 1-2
    Artificer: Wand and Scroll Mastery 1-4
    Artificer: Wand and Scroll Heightening 1-4
    Artificer: Wand and Scroll Penetration 1-4
    Artificer: Reserve 1-4 (spell points)
    Artificer: Force Manipulation 1-4
    Artificer: Deadly Force 1-4
    Artificer: Lineage of Force 1-4
    Artificer Improved (Insert Metamagic Feat) 1-x where x= 2-4


    Well there are some ideas


    Aesop
    Rule 1: Don't sweat the small stuff
    Rule 2: Its all small stuff
    Rule 3: People are stupid. You, me everyone... expect it
    more rules to come in a different sig

  13. #13
    Community Member LunaCee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symar-FangofLloth View Post
    And you *could* interpret Take 10 that way, but that's now how it works in tabletop. You either choose to roll, or choose to automatically have a 10. It could be a nice feature though.
    Issue being the player base builds UMD to no fail certain things. Either its a toggle ability which would just be turned on and left on forever, or its a passive that automatically upgrades sup-par rolls. One would just be turned on and left on indefinitely, the other would be a nice perk.

    Example of no-fail toggle that always rolls a 10:

    10 base CHA +0
    23 skill ranks +23
    10 auto-roll +10 (+33)
    +6 CHA item +3 (+36)
    +3 UMD skill focus or the item from Delera's (+39)

    No fail raise scrolls and no fail heal scrolls with absolute minimal effort at 20th. At that point they might as well make it a passive perk instead... And one could easily have better gear acquired for UMD and also toss tomes on the CHA stat, maybe start with 12-14 CHA. You get the idea, a good Artificer could easily get a 45+ UMD. And if you are also going to give them a UMD +1-4 class line... hello UMD 48! 9th level spell scrolls no fail.

  14. #14
    Community Member AestorTheKnight's Avatar
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    Default Excellent Idea! :)

    I think this is an absolutely brilliant idea!! From what you guys have written / suggested the Class Looks balanced, playable, fun, unique, very interesting to play, and an awsome addition to DDO.

    The Artificier class would be like a Bard, but without the Songs. Like a Rogue without the Sneak Attack. It would add an additional option in the game to accomplish some of the things that Rogues can do, and some of the things Wizards can. All in all it would just be a great addition to DDO, adding flavour to the game and more possibilities for players!

    And the best thing about it is all the abilities you guys have described are easily balanced / implemented / developed - because they already exist in the game anyways!

    The Artificer would be an addition to DDO in the same way the Favoured Soul was an alternate option to the Cleric. He would be a great alternate option to the Rogue / Wizard.

    Oh - Haste should be on their Spell List!

    I really hope Turbine implement this! And thankyou to the OP for posting this idea!
    Last edited by AestorTheKnight; 04-30-2010 at 08:12 AM.
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